Cell Phone Activity Discussion Thread #2

[cityslick]

BBM

Could that be another clue that the phones never left the house?

Was there metal detectors in the house the first day? InDaMiddle states the house was basically a crime scene taped off shortly after LE arrived.

I guess what I'm asking is how much access did the parents have to the house after LE arrived and taped it off.

 

[Well Done 99]

That's the exact question Megyn Kelly asked of Picerno! Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

I'd like to know if there would be any ping triangulation at all if the phones never left the house that night. I'm wondering if all the phone pings bounced off the same tower.

It was a long time ago but hopefully my army radio op training assists some of the members who are unfamiliar with the principles of signal triangulation.

As you can see from my crude sketch, a signal from a device is not given on a precise bearing. ie the further the tower (or locating receiver) is located from the transmitting device (in this case a phone), the wider the margin of error.
The common point (the area within the lines of all THREE pings) indicates the location of the device.
When LE say that the phone was never more than 1/3 mile from the house, IMO they may well mean this common area was 1/3 mile in radius from its center. In other words the phone may never have left the house, but they are unable to state that with certainty

 

[NotSoSherlock]

That's the exact question Megyn Kelly asked of Picerno! Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

I'd like to know if there would be any ping triangulation at all if the phones never left the house that night. I'm wondering if all the phone pings bounced off the same tower.

BBM
Phones will be pinged even if they are stationary. If I understand your question correctly. (And if my understanding of cellular networking is correct.)

 

[yllek]

BBM
Phones will be pinged even if they are stationary. If I understand your question correctly. (And if my understanding of cellular networking is correct.)

I think so too. As long as the cell phone is activated, it will continuously ping (the "here I am", "here I am" process described in the article posted upthread).

If the cell phone is stationary and there aren't two or more cell towers in similar distance from the location, the pings may be generated off of just one cell phone tower. In that case, there is no opportunity for triangulation. Instead, the distance covered by that specific cell tower alone would be the potential location area.

P.S. I don't know how GPS plays into this, if at all. It may help to determine a much more specific area whether triangulation is in play or not.

 

[jjenny]

That's the exact question Megyn Kelly asked of Picerno! Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

I'd like to know if there would be any ping triangulation at all if the phones never left the house that night. I'm wondering if all the phone pings bounced off the same tower.

I noticed he never really answered the question. Also in supposed sightings of men with babies, these men were not stationary sitting with the baby behind the house, but on the move. Yet we have phone being used hours apart and apparently never leaving the location close to the house.

 

[suzilight]

Can anyone tell me if cell phones can ping if they are turned off? TIA.

 

[natsound]

It was a long time ago but hopefully my army radio op training assists some of the members who are unfamiliar with the principles of signal triangulation.

As you can see from my crude sketch, a signal from a device is not given on a precise bearing. ie the further the tower (or locating receiver) is located from the transmitting device (in this case a phone), the wider the margin of error.
The common point (the area within the lines of all THREE pings) indicates the location of the device.
When LE say that the phone was never more than 1/3 mile from the house, IMO they may well mean this common area was 1/3 mile in radius from its center. In other words the phone may never have left the house, but they are unable to state that with certainty

Hey Welldone! Krikey, how are ya?

So what you're saying is that a cell phone ping will always hit three towers? Obviously, I know nothing about pinging, etc.

 

[natsound]

Can anyone tell me if cell phones can ping if they are turned off? TIA.

Other posters are saying that a cell phone turned off may ping, but a cell phone with the batteries removed would not.

 

[Well Done 99]

Can anyone tell me if cell phones can ping if they are turned off? TIA.

I don't believe so. Although this is where the difference between pinging the phone and determining its position for gps purposes may come in. I imagine a phone which is turned off but which has gps running could still be located.
Pinging does not locate a phone by its sim either - it locates it by the code in the phone itself (IIRC called its ESN?)

 

[suzilight]

Thanks, Natsound!

 

[suzilight]

Thanks, Welldone99!

 

[natsound]

Was there metal detectors in the house the first day? InDaMiddle states the house was basically a crime scene taped off shortly after LE arrived.

I guess what I'm asking is how much access did the parents have to the house after LE arrived and taped it off.

According to that timeline that I posted upthread, there were no metal detectors used around the house until October 8th.

 

[Well Done 99]

Hey Welldone! Krikey, how are ya?

So what you're saying is that a cell phone ping will always hit three towers? Obviously, I know nothing about pinging, etc.

G'day natsound.
No, not at all. But I think there has been some confusion over the terms 'ping' and 'triangulation'.
A phone can be pinged by one tower only, but 'triangulation' is the process of locating a signal by intersecting a signal from three different sites (towers).
Naturally a ping from one tower only would be less accurate than triangulation.
:seeya:

 

[cityslick]

According to that timeline that I posted upthread, there were no metal detectors used around the house until October 8th.

Well, I don't know how closely I regard that timeline as fact since we have posters that actually live in the neighborhood tell us the events of the first day and what was seen. If InDaMiddle states there were metal detectors there on day one and the house was roped off on day one because that was physically seen, I'd have to put more into that then what was posted upthread.

 

[natsound]

Well, I don't know how closely I regard that timeline as fact since we have posters that actually live in the neighborhood tell us the events of the first day and what was seen. If InDaMiddle states there were metal detectors there on day one and the house was roped off on day one because that was physically seen, I'd have to put more into that then what was posted upthread.

Looks like it was Friday, October 7.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...ing-metal-detectors-at-missing-infant's-house

 

[NotSoSherlock]

I think so too. As long as the cell phone is activated, it will continuously ping (the "here I am", "here I am" process described in the article posted upthread).

If the cell phone is stationary and there aren't two or more cell towers in similar distance from the location, the pings may be generated off of just one cell phone tower. In that case, there is no opportunity for triangulation. Instead, the distance covered by that specific cell tower alone would be the potential location area.

P.S. I don't know how GPS plays into this, if at all. It may help to determine a much more specific area whether triangulation is in play or not.

BBM

The GPS unit on a phone can be used to send the phone's location back to the tower when the tower pings the phone. It is basically a alternate means of determining the phone's location. The advantages are that it doesn't require triangulation and it is more accurate.

I read an article somewhere that explained that, if the GPS unit is on and the phone is pinged then the phone will send back, via SMS, the phone's location. SMS is the same technology used for texting.

If the GPS isn't on then triangulation has to be used, which is less accurate. Triangulation determines the location based on the phone's signal strength and the amount of time it takes for the ping to make a round trip from the tower to the phone and back to the tower.

To add to what you said about just one tower being able to ping... Yes, the potential location of the phone would be very broad but it wouldn't be the entire area covered by the tower (strictly speaking the transceiver on the tower) since the tower would still know the signal strength and round trip time. This would narrow down the potential location considerably but would still be a fairly broad area. Add to this, the fact that cellular network transceivers are 'directional' and typically cover 120 degrees of a 'cell'. This too helps narrow down the phone's location when only one or two transceivers can ping the phone.

The JI/DB house is pretty close to a tower. The tower is west-by-southwest of the house about 2/3 mile. You can actually see the tower in the background of some of the media reports.

This close proximity may mean that only that tower was able to ping the phone since the other two towers that make up that particular cell (a 'cell' is made up of 3 towers) would be further away. But who really knows? That's a pretty densely populated area so there may have been other towers able to ping the phone.

 

[In da Middle]

Was there metal detectors in the house the first day? InDaMiddle states the house was basically a crime scene taped off shortly after LE arrived.

I guess what I'm asking is how much access did the parents have to the house after LE arrived and taped it off.

I am not positive that they had metal detectors the very first day, but they did definitely have them out before it was public about the phones. The phone info came out pretty early, so the detectors were out even earlier than that. And yes, the house was blocked off as a crime scene for a long time. Things are kind of starting to blend a bit in my mind now.

 

[GoodGurl]

So IF the phones never left the house, theories what happened to them? Did they sneak them out later?
Did they get rid of them together inside the house?
Did they pass them off to someone close?
Did DB alone get rid of them in the 15 minute time frame before JI came home?
Did DB pass them off to someone who was with her during the 15 minutes before JI came home?

 

[NotSoSherlock]

So IF the phones never left the house, theories what happened to them? Did they sneak them out later?
Did they get rid of them together inside the house?
Did they pass them off to someone close?
Did DB alone get rid of them in the 15 minute time frame before JI came home?
Did DB pass them off to someone who was with her during the 15 minutes before JI came home?

Considering LE searched that house extensively and have a lot of experience with how people hide things, I doubt they're in or around the house. Although, they could have been flushed into the septic or sewage system after breaking them into smaller pieces, I suppose.

 

[KsStormy]

The window to the computer room was used as the entry point--am I correct? :waitasec:
Clues equal evidence and DNA imo. LE is keeping things tight lipped. that's a good thing imo.

JI seemed to not think it was possible that someone entered thru the window...

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...-about-night-baby-went-missing-#ixzz1eW6OmmBe

I can't find the rest of the interview the news woman spoke of, anyone know how to find it? This on is all I can find --

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1208764392001/exclusive-parents-of-missing-baby-lisa-speak-out/