Christina Noudga Trial Thread 11.22.16

[THXGuru]

This absolutely was not mentioned in the agreed statement of facts. It was stated out of court by Noudga's lawyer that everyone acknowledged she did not know.

Nothing of the sort was said or even hinted at by the prosecution. What Craig Fraser said was he believed the Crown had a strong circumstantial case but there was no direct evidence Noudga knew.

The judge, in a declaration that left many jaws on the floor, announced he would not have been able to find NOudga guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The Crown attorneys declined to comment on the pronouncement.

People are completely free to disagree on what Noudga did or didn't know.

From the National Post

"In an eight-page agreed statement of facts read aloud in court by Assistant Crown Attorney Brett Moodie, Noudga admitted she helped move, destroy and hide evidence relevant to the police investigation into Bosma’s murder, but without knowing of the murder."

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/christine-noudga-pleads-guilty-to-obstructing-justice-in-tim-bosma-murder-case

 

[ABro]

From the National Post

"In an eight-page agreed statement of facts read aloud in court by Assistant Crown Attorney Brett Moodie, Noudga admitted she helped move, destroy and hide evidence relevant to the police investigation into Bosma’s murder, but without knowing of the murder."

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/christine-noudga-pleads-guilty-to-obstructing-justice-in-tim-bosma-murder-case

Read the statement. The Post is describing what Noudga admitted. That's it, that's all.

What is agreed to is that Noudga maintains she doesn't know. I'm sorry that you don't understand that this doesn't mean everyone agrees with Noudga, just that they agree that this is what she claims.

ETA: Here is an example that may help you understand.

I say the moon is made of cheese.

Because you agree that I say the moon is made of cheese does not mean you agree that the moon is made of cheese.

 

[Bellers]

What would you expect her to do? just stay home and weep. People do have lives to live.

She doesn't have to weep, but I do expect someone on house arrest to stay home ffs.

 

[marymcd]

This absolutely was not mentioned in the agreed statement of facts. The statement says it is her position she did not know not that she did not know. This is an important distinction.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3224174-Christina-Noudga-agreed-statement-of-facts \(last page)

It was also stated out of court by Noudga's lawyer that everyone acknowledged she did not know.

Nothing of the sort was said or even hinted at by the prosecution. What Craig Fraser said was he believed the Crown had a strong circumstantial case but there was no direct evidence Noudga knew.

The judge, in a declaration that left many jaws on the floor, announced he would not have been able to find NOudga guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The Crown attorneys declined to comment on the pronouncement when asked about it.

People are completely free to disagree on what Noudga did or didn't know. It is my personal opinion, based on the circumstantial evidence, that she knew. But it was a circumstantial case with no direct evidence of her knowledge and women, especially young pretty ones, often get what a veteran court reporter friend of mine calls "the chick discount." Given the Bosmas' position, I think the plea was a very wise move.

Thanks for the great post! I was interested to read that you think that the plea was a very wise move, given the Bosma's position. I'm wondering if you could expand on that.

Also, the more I read and re-read the trial tweets and various articles, the more convinced I am that everyone in Millard's circle knew that he had murdered Tim Bosma, whether or not they knew the plan beforehand. I would love to hear your opinion.

 

[Alethea Dice]

This absolutely was not mentioned in the agreed statement of facts. The statement says it is her position she did not know not that she did not know. This is an important distinction.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3224174-Christina-Noudga-agreed-statement-of-facts \(last page)

It was also stated out of court by Noudga's lawyer that everyone acknowledged she did not know.

Nothing of the sort was said or even hinted at by the prosecution. What Craig Fraser said was he believed the Crown had a strong circumstantial case but there was no direct evidence Noudga knew.

The judge, in a declaration that left many jaws on the floor, announced he would not have been able to find NOudga guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The Crown attorneys declined to comment on the pronouncement when asked about it.

People are completely free to disagree on what Noudga did or didn't know. It is my personal opinion, based on the circumstantial evidence, that she knew. But it was a circumstantial case with no direct evidence of her knowledge and women, especially young pretty ones, often get what a veteran court reporter friend of mine calls "the chick discount." Given the Bosmas' position, I think the plea was a very wise move.

But it was really no longer about anyone's personal opinion was it. It was about being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she did know about the murder when she helped move things on May 9th.

I wasn't at the trial, but from what I remember of the text messages, and what was reported during the original trial, I don't remember there being anything to prove that she even knew, on that Thursday night, that the mission was the stolen truck, let alone that she was helping to cover up a murder.

I do agree with your friend though in that "chick's" often do seem to get discounts, not only in the courtroom but in the court of personal opinion as well.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I'm wondering if AFTER CN testified in DM's trial, the courts/crowns were willing to look at leniency. She was touted as the Crown's 'star witness', who had not been interviewed by the Crown prior to her testimony. They weren't sure of what they were going to get from her until they got it. She served her purpose for them, and it seems they were mostly concerned with getting murder convictions for the other two. I wonder if there was a pub ban on this variance in conditions at the time, otherwise, how did all the reporters miss this?

If this article is correct, DM's trial hadn't even started yet when CN's bail conditions were reduced.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/christine-noudga-pleads-guilty-to-obstructing-justice-in-tim-bosma-murder-case

Noudga served four months in pre-trial custody, which under the law is equivalent to a six-month jail term. This was followed by 2.3 years of house arrest while on bail, with about 10 months of that wearing a monitoring bracelet.

She was arrested in April 2014 and got bail in August 2014. If the conditions were reduced after about 10 months, that would be around June 2015 that she was allowed to roam freely with a note.

 

[ABro]

But it was really no longer about anyone's personal opinion was it. It was about being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she did know about the murder when she helped move things on May 9th.

I wasn't at the trial, but from what I remember of the text messages, and what was reported during the original trial, I don't remember there being anything to prove that she even knew, on that Thursday night, that the mission was the stolen truck, let alone that she was helping to cover up a murder.

I do agree with your friend though in that "chick's" often do seem to get discounts, not only in the courtroom but in the court of personal opinion as well.

Beyond a reasonable doubt is not some precise measurable standard everyone agrees upon so, yes, it is actually about individual people's opinions -- albeit guided by a set of legal principles -- in the end.

If you ask me if, based on the evidence I've seen so far, I'm convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, I would say probably not. I would have to see what else the Crown would have brought to the table and how they would have put together their case. That's why I was very surprised to hear the judge make the declaration he did although I also don't know what he saw, if anything, that I didn't.

 

[ABro]

Thanks for the great post! I was interested to read that you think that the plea was a very wise move, given the Bosma's position. I'm wondering if you could expand on that.

Also, the more I read and re-read the trial tweets and various articles, the more convinced I am that everyone in Millard's circle knew that he had murdered Tim Bosma, whether or not they knew the plan beforehand. I would love to hear your opinion.

There were a lot of known unknowns with a Noudga trial. The circumstantial evidence. The "chick" factor including the tendency to excuse women who do bad things for LOVE since, don't you know it, we can't help it. A light sentence even with a hypothetical guilty verdict. All these things had to be weighed in the context of a "soul destroying" trial or a sure conviction plea deal on a lesser charge.

Re Millard's circle, I don't believe any of the guys had any idea he was planning a murder and I think, after the fact, they mostly blamed Smich. I believe by the time MH and AM dropped off the toolbox they knew something very bad had happened but were having a hard time wrapping their heads around a possible murder. Schlatman is a different story given he had the truck right in front of him on Wednesday morning. He had a head start over the others at figuring out something was going on.

 

[Inspector_North]

CN's lawyer said the guilty plea was in relation to wiping down fingerprints on the trailer. Why was Rabbit not charged?

 

[marymcd]

. . . including the tendency to excuse women who do bad things for LOVE since, don't you know it, we can't help it. . .

RSBM

I loved this! Of course, how could I forget. Proof that the more things change, the more they stay the same . . .

A special thank you for your thoughts. You have a unique and valuable perspective having been so intensely engaged throughout.

 

[don_quixote]

CN's lawyer said the guilty plea was in relation to wiping down fingerprints on the trailer. Why was Rabbit not charged?

Probably MB wisely kept her mouth shut. The only evidence they have about MB's activities is that of Nougda and that won't be enough I'd think.

 

[don_quixote]

I'm sure this is exactly what CN was thinking.

It's the part where she flaunts it on SM and the arrogance shown in court and by refusing to talk to LE until her arrest that irks me. She knew exactly what LE/the crown had and her attitude was whatcha-going-to-do-about-it.

I'm a believer in second chances. If her story is true, the poor thing [emoji14] had her life turned upside down for simply not asking questions and accompanying DM while he did odd things (that was apparently normal behaviour for him). There have been times in my life when I think, s*&t, I've got to get myself out of this situation, and with the support of friends and family, I refused to spiral into the depths of despair (watched Ann of Green Gables on tv last night, can you tell?) and get my act together. So while half of me thinks, you go gurl, do you, all of me thinks, for heaven sakes, set your profile to private!

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As you noticed yourself, it's her arrogance that is so loathsome. She didn't kill TB. I am pretty positive she wishes this whole clusterf$k did not happen. She just wanted to marry a wealthy idiot hoping that he's gonna grow up. Not a psychiatrist here, but I'd bet 4:1 she would be diagnosed as a psycho. May be she didn't set her profile to private exactly because it gives her a kick?

But being an arschloh and a psycho is not a criminal code offense. Did she know? I'd say she did but there is no proof. The rest is irrelevant.

Most importantly, those two degenerates are behind bars.

 

[ILoveDateline]

As you noticed yourself, it's her arrogance that is so loathsome. She didn't kill TB. I am pretty positive she wishes this whole clusterf$k did not happen. She just wanted to marry a wealthy idiot hoping that he's gonna grow up. Not a psychiatrist here, but I'd bet 4:1 she would be diagnosed as a psycho. May be she didn't set her profile to private exactly because it gives her a kick?

But being an arschloh and a psycho is not a criminal code offense. Did she know? I'd say she did but there is no proof. The rest is irrelevant.

Most importantly, those two degenerates are behind bars.

I believe most certainly, her public online profiles are deliberate. Be it a byproduct of being a millennial or egomaniac, I'm not sure.

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[matou]

She closed her fb and untagged all of her photos on fb after TB's murder and yet kept other social media open after her arrest.

How did she meet DM again? Was it via AM?

 

[JuneBug67]

I believe most certainly, her public online profiles are deliberate. Be it a byproduct of being a millennial or egomaniac, I'm not sure.

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My guess would be that the primary engine of her social media is near complete indifference. She probably just doesn't care about the opinions and sensibilities of unwashed internet plebes, particularly when the artsy edginess of her feeds makes the contrast so sharp in her own head.

 

[matou]

She's oh so Niestzche-esque! and loves the $$$$ and all the beautiful people

 

[THXGuru]

This absolutely was not mentioned in the agreed statement of facts. The statement says it is her position she did not know not that she did not know. This is an important distinction.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3224174-Christina-Noudga-agreed-statement-of-facts \(last page)

It was also stated out of court by Noudga's lawyer that everyone acknowledged she did not know.

Nothing of the sort was said or even hinted at by the prosecution. What Craig Fraser said was he believed the Crown had a strong circumstantial case but there was no direct evidence Noudga knew.

The judge, in a declaration that left many jaws on the floor, announced he would not have been able to find NOudga guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The Crown attorneys declined to comment on the pronouncement when asked about it.

People are completely free to disagree on what Noudga did or didn't know. It is my personal opinion, based on the circumstantial evidence, that she knew. But it was a circumstantial case with no direct evidence of her knowledge and women, especially young pretty ones, often get what a veteran court reporter friend of mine calls "the chick discount." Given the Bosmas' position, I think the plea was a very wise move.

Read the statement. The Post is describing what Noudga admitted. That's it, that's all.

What is agreed to is that Noudga maintains she doesn't know. I'm sorry that you don't understand that this doesn't mean everyone agrees with Noudga, just that they agree that this is what she claims.

ETA: Here is an example that may help you understand.

I say the moon is made of cheese.

Because you agree that I say the moon is made of cheese does not mean you agree that the moon is made of cheese.

I think you are not understanding your link about the agreed statement of facts. In the statement of facts, its pretty clear in final line #32 what she told police. She did all of this while maintaining she did not know Bosma has been murdered.

So the facts that were agreed upon were, in a statement to police she admitted to actions that may have assisted Millard and they were done not knowing Bosma had been murdered.

How can this be any more unclear?

Multiple publications wrote about this:

CBC:
"In an agreed statement of facts (which can be viewed here), the Crown noted there was no direct evidence that when Noudga was assisting Millard, she knew that he had killed Bosma"

 

[canadiangirl]

She closed her fb and untagged all of her photos on fb after TB's murder and yet kept other social media open after her arrest.

How did she meet DM again? Was it via AM?

Wasn't it through LB? I will have to look back but IIRC LB and DM met through a dating site and LB and CN were friends? Don't quote me on that. I'll need to look again because I'm also curious

 

[matou]

Wasn't it through LB? I will have to look back but IIRC LB and DM met through a dating site and LB and CN were friends? Don't quote me on that. I'll need to look again because I'm also curious

LB and AM were friends. I saw a post from a long time ago between them via fb.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

LB and AM were friends. I saw a post from a long time ago between them via fb.

Wish I could remember where I read it so I could post (will do when my mind sorts it out, lol) but LB was friends with AM, and also friends with CN.

I can't remember how long ago their relationships began, though, or even if that information has been established.

MOO


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