Christina Noudga Trial Thread 11.22.16

[Kamille]

And a three week trial might have cost Noudga another $100K in legal fees, if not more.

Still don't think that it would have cost CN or her parents a dime. I think she had a "benefactor" who paid for this attorney to make this trial go away.

MOO

 

[matou]

OK so who all knew that DM and MS were going to steal a truck? AM, some unidentified girl, MM. Smich's girlfriend knew about the mission but Noudga didn't? Only that he was on a "mission." Sure. And she knew he had gun(s). What was he doing with them? Collecting them? So so disturbed by this.

 

[palisadesk]

How did she procure Greenspan in the first place? I hope we find out.

A propos of this, there's no reason to suppose a mystery here. Just because Greenspan is known to represent billionaires doesn't mean he has no middle-class clients. Her parents may have needed to cash in RRSPs or take out a second mortgage or some such thing, but we don't need to hypothesize an outside benefactor. Guy Paul Morin's parents did this in order to hire top lawyers to defend their son, They were people of modest means.

But as someone pointed out, money may have been one factor impelling her to be quiet and accept a deal that would save her parents a lot of money. And worst case scenario, if she had gone to trial and been convicted, it would certainly have been appealed, and yet more legal fees would have been required.

In hindsight, one wonders why the Crown went this route when, from Justice Skarica's remarks, those of Crown Moodie and the statement of facts, the Crown really didn't have evidence of her knowledge of the murder - THE key factor in a crime of AATF. Thinking strategically, the Crown may have upped the ante and pursued this course in order to get something out of her and a conviction of some kind for her role in the case.

When the time came for her to say something, I wasn't surprised she said nothing to show remorse or empathy for the Bosmas. She feels none. Her reactions have always been self-involved. Never any sign of concern for others, and I was actually relieved we weren't treated to some phony show of "remorse" that would not have fooled anyone anyway. If she were a different kind of person, she would have offered one, but the only sorrow she feels is for having been caught.

One thing Dr. Robert Hare points out about people with psychopathic tendencies (which she might have), they look out for Number One, and they can be guided towards more acceptable behaviour by appealing to their self-interest. It's in her interest to stay away from low-lifes such as DM and MS and their crowd, Whether she will take the judge's advice to heart remains to be seen.

KH has stayed out of trouble in the years since her release, and possibly CN will as well. But she will always be the kind of person we have already seen. The leopard doesn't change its spots.

At least she has a criminal record and will have some consequences, however inadequate. I felt real trepidation that a trial could end in an acquittal. At least that was not the result.

 

[hopingforjustice]

Doing some reading...it seems she may be able to get a chiropractic license (I'm not sure what "health sciences profession" she is planning on). While criminal background checks are required, the language I found said that governing bodies are "allowed" to reject or strip licences based on criminal records, it's not guaranteed. The top pages on a search within Canada yields info from BC but also this story about a Mississauga Chiropractor.

Dugan had his licence suspended for four months by the College of Chiropractors of Ontario back in 2010 after a disciplinary panel found he failed to disclose that he was convicted criminally of performing an indecent act in front of a female high school student at Erin Mills Town Centre on Oct. 5, 2006.

Convicted six years ago in Brampton court, Dugan received a conditional discharge and 18 months probation, with conditions that included counselling and staying away from Erin Mills Town Centre and John Fraser Secondary School.
Dugan, a registered chiropractor since 1998, remains an active member of the CCO, but his current status isn't immediately known.

http://www.mississauga.com/news-story/4121715-chiropractor-with-criminal-record-facing-new-charges/


Actually, I've just found the Ontario board which only states that one must disclose a conviction but nothing about whether this would disqualify an applicant/member. It certainly doesn't disqualify one from applying or practicing without a license, which would just be rich, IMO.

http://www.cco.on.ca/english/Prospective-Members/Becoming-a-Member/Registration-Requirements/

Thanks for this info. If I am reading it correctly, these cases are if they are already licensed. I think the onus is on them to report anything new.
As CN would be a student entering into her chosen field, I could be wrong, but I believe it may be different. My daughter is a Paramedic student and has had to provide a clean Criminal history report before each year of study or it was a no go.

 

[palisadesk]

I can't find a media link to this yet, but before 6:00 pm news on CBC Radio 99.1 as I was driving home, the newscaster (maybe the one who did the 5:30 news) announced that CBC television would be presenting a special on the Bosma case in two weeks on a Friday, program not named.

I am guessing it's The Fifth Estate. The speaker went on to say it featured interviews from "new witnesses" and other "new" material.

Not enough to make me go out and get a TV (I have never owned one) but I'll try to watch it online when we find out exactly when and where. Maybe someone else can track it down. Others must have heard the same thing on 99.1

 

[ElleEtoile]

I can't find a media link to this yet, but before 6:00 pm news on CBC Radio 99.1 as I was driving home, the newscaster (maybe the one who did the 5:30 news) announced that CBC television would be presenting a special on the Bosma case in two weeks on a Friday, program not named.

I am guessing it's The Fifth Estate. The speaker went on to say it featured interviews from "new witnesses" and other "new" material.

Not enough to make me go out and get a TV (I have never owned one) but I'll try to watch it online when we find out exactly when and where. Maybe someone else can track it down. Others must have heard the same thing on 99.1

Yes, it's been advertised on TV these last couple days. Fifth Estate, Dec. 2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ElleEtoile]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

What's interesting is all of these agreed facts came from what CN told the cops after she was arrested. So what reason did the cops have to arrest her?

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

I just came across this:

http://cnews.canoe.com/CNEWS/Crime/2016/11/22/22684955.html

Noudga, an Oakville resident, was arrested about a year after Bosma died and charged with accessory after the fact but she pleaded guilty to the lesser but included offence today on the morning her trial was scheduled to begin.

“There would have been insufficient evidence to find her guilty on the accessory charge,” said Justice Toni Skarica while passing sentence

So when did she become an Oakville resident? Her parents, up to at least a few months ago, lived in south Etobicoke.

 

[Tealgrove]

A propos of this, there's no reason to suppose a mystery here. Just because Greenspan is known to represent billionaires doesn't mean he has no middle-class clients. Her parents may have needed to cash in RRSPs or take out a second mortgage or some such thing, but we don't need to hypothesize an outside benefactor. Guy Paul Morin's parents did this in order to hire top lawyers to defend their son, They were people of modest means.

But as someone pointed out, money may have been one factor impelling her to be quiet and accept a deal that would save her parents a lot of money. And worst case scenario, if she had gone to trial and been convicted, it would certainly have been appealed, and yet more legal fees would have been required.

In hindsight, one wonders why the Crown went this route when, from Justice Skarica's remarks, those of Crown Moodie and the statement of facts, the Crown really didn't have evidence of her knowledge of the murder - THE key factor in a crime of AATF. Thinking strategically, the Crown may have upped the ante and pursued this course in order to get something out of her and a conviction of some kind for her role in the case.

When the time came for her to say something, I wasn't surprised she said nothing to show remorse or empathy for the Bosmas. She feels none. Her reactions have always been self-involved. Never any sign of concern for others, and I was actually relieved we weren't treated to some phony show of "remorse" that would not have fooled anyone anyway. If she were a different kind of person, she would have offered one, but the only sorrow she feels is for having been caught.

One thing Dr. Robert Hare points out about people with psychopathic tendencies (which she might have), they look out for Number One, and they can be guided towards more acceptable behaviour by appealing to their self-interest. It's in her interest to stay away from low-lifes such as DM and MS and their crowd, Whether she will take the judge's advice to heart remains to be seen.

KH has stayed out of trouble in the years since her release, and possibly CN will as well. But she will always be the kind of person we have already seen. The leopard doesn't change its spots.

At least she has a criminal record and will have some consequences, however inadequate. I felt real trepidation that a trial could end in an acquittal. At least that was not the result.

RBBM

Exactly. I was relieved as well.

 

[hopingforjustice]

I haven't made my loathing for this girl a secret, but I will acquiesce to those much smarter than I. It is what it is and for reasons ...some clear, some not. Doesn't mean I can't be curious. I question her "house arrest", I question her morals (which I do realize are not covered by law), I question why the right questions were not asked and answered in the 8 page statement to the court, I question why the "rabbit" is not facing the same charges, I question a lot. Does getting her DNA on file perhaps lead to more questions? Why in the world would an attorney of Greenspans ability advise her to take a criminal rap when "supposedly" the case couldn't be won by the Crown. (and $ spent doesn't cut it for me. JMO) Did SB choose not to attend because she wanted to move on or was she angry with the deal? Why was SS not investigated more? In fact why didn't the whole lot of them own up to their true involvement (or just association with the parties) when they realized that his had now gone further than a "fun" adventure or "mission". Thru it all from start to finish..to all involved. I hope nightmares haunt them all to the end of their dying days for their part in this completely senseless tragedy! RIP TB

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

As was mentioned by a couple WSers, I am wondering about this possibility: Perhaps CN has some information regarding DM's alleged murders of LB and/or WM, therefore the Crown and Greenspan arranged for this "slap on the wrist" plea deal in exchange for her testimony in the two upcoming trials? Anyone think that is a feasibility?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Webulls]

It may not be the result we all wanted. Somehow though, even I can accept it. I will choose to go along with SB on this. I can understand completely the need to move on for her and her daughter. CN is putrid small potatoes. That's the reality. She's worth nothing and her guilt is worth a bit less. The big picture continues to afford us satisfaction. Knowing that DM and MS are rotting in prison for the rest of their pathetic lives (esp. after they tack on another 25 after Babcock trial) is all I need to feel good about the justice system and that evil was punished. And punished hard. It's been a while since DM and MS were found guilty. So long that I've actually forgotten about them for the most part. But every once in a while, I think about the day the jury said "guilty" to each one of them, and a smile forms from ear to ear. That feeling will never go away.

 

[Tealgrove]

As was mentioned by a couple WSers, I am wondering about this possibility: Perhaps CN has some information regarding DM's alleged murders of LB and/or WM, therefore the Crown and Greenspan arranged for this "slap on the wrist" plea deal in exchange for her testimony in the two upcoming trials? Anyone think that is a feasibility?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think that if her co-operation in an upcoming trial was part of the deal they would have to divulge this to the court.

Having said that, they can still call her as a witness if she has evidence to give.

 

[Georgeo]

I haven't made my loathing for this girl a secret, but I will acquiesce to those much smarter than I. It is what it is and for reasons ...some clear, some not. Doesn't mean I can't be curious. I question her "house arrest", I question her morals (which I do realize are not covered by law), I question why the right questions were not asked and answered in the 8 page statement to the court, I question why the "rabbit" is not facing the same charges, I question a lot. Does getting her DNA on file perhaps lead to more questions? Why in the world would an attorney of Greenspans ability advise her to take a criminal rap when "supposedly" the case couldn't be won by the Crown. (and $ spent doesn't cut it for me. JMO) Did SB choose not to attend because she wanted to move on or was she angry with the deal? Why was SS not investigated more? In fact why didn't the whole lot of them own up to their true involvement (or just association with the parties) when they realized that his had now gone further than a "fun" adventure or "mission". Thru it all from start to finish..to all involved. I hope nightmares haunt them all to the end of their dying days for their part in this completely senseless tragedy! RIP TB

These people are different - no morals, no conscience, no fear. They "take from the source" as DM stated in texts to his cronies. Different rules for that bunch... society's rules - they laugh at them. CN showed her true colours at the TB trial. Her inconvenience at being forced to testify, her haughty manner and lack of remorse for "the person" as she referred to Tim Bosma. Couldn't even be bothered to utter his name at trial. And on and on.... just mind boggling how arrogant this whole bunch is.

Noticed CN's instagram today shows a photo of a wedding cake and candles? Not sure what she is insinuating with that - candles = BBQ (aka incinerator). Cake = celebrating her relationship with DM. Weird photo to post day after her trial...

 

[loveisthemovement]

Noticed CN's instagram today shows a photo of a wedding cake and candles? Not sure what she is insinuating with that - candles = BBQ (aka incinerator). Cake = celebrating her relationship with DM. Weird photo to post day after her trial...

RSBM

That photo was actually posted 3 days ago.

 

[matou]

I can't find a media link to this yet, but before 6:00 pm news on CBC Radio 99.1 as I was driving home, the newscaster (maybe the one who did the 5:30 news) announced that CBC television would be presenting a special on the Bosma case in two weeks on a Friday, program not named.

I am guessing it's The Fifth Estate. The speaker went on to say it featured interviews from "new witnesses" and other "new" material.

Not enough to make me go out and get a TV (I have never owned one) but I'll try to watch it online when we find out exactly when and where. Maybe someone else can track it down. Others must have heard the same thing on 99.1

Thanks for this info. I was so mad that I wasn't going to post until the next trial

 

[ILoveDateline]

That may be.
The search i did yesterday (and posted about) on the COLLEGE OF CHIROPRACTORS OF ONTARIO website (this is the licensing body) yielded nothing when searching "criminal" "background" "guilty" the only place I found it mentioned was on the application form for new applicants that said:

SELF REPORTING
As an applicant, you are required to report to CCO information about any guilty finding made by a court related to an offence, professionalnegligence or malpractice (The duty to report offences and findings is found in section 85.6.1 and 85.6.2 of the Health Professions Procedural Codeas enacted by the government). Check the appropriate box(es) below:
1. Have you been found guilty of an offence? … YES … NO If YES to any question,Please provide details on a separate piece ofpaper, including the nature, description, date ofany finding, name and location of the court, andany appeal status relating to the finding.

Sounds like the honour system for reporting and a qualitative assessment. According to the code quoted above, Chiropractics is a self-regulating profession (as is massage therapy but I didn't see Paramedics on the list). I believe I read that in BC the schools require applicants to disclose a criminal record (but didn't specify it had to be clean). A search of one Ontario school doesn't mention anything about a background check under admission requirements and yields nothing when I search "criminal" "background" "guilty"
http://www.cmcc.ca/page.aspx?pid=348

This website http://www.degrees.ca/chiropractor/ says that "criminal screening" is done at the licensing level.

So I think it's possible CN can go to chiropractic school, and maybe even get licensed because I can't see the licensing board denying a license for an obstruction conviction. A colleague's wife is a Chiro and school is 4 years. Perhaps by that point she will have applied for a record suspension (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/record-suspension-formerly-called-pardon-and-purges).

I'm just disheartened because I really don't think an obstruction charge is going to hold her back all that much. Again, I have no clue if this is her chosen profession, it's just an example. That's JMO.

Thanks for this info. If I am reading it correctly, these cases are if they are already licensed. I think the onus is on them to report anything new.
As CN would be a student entering into her chosen field, I could be wrong, but I believe it may be different. My daughter is a Paramedic student and has had to provide a clean Criminal history report before each year of study or it was a no go.

 

[marymcd]

I just presume that Noudga would probably remain under the protective umbrella of her parents and work for them with or without formal training, and perhaps take over the business when they retire. It seems to have been lucrative for them. MOO

 

[palisadesk]

Thanks for this info. I was so mad that I wasn't going to post until the next trial

I'm with you, but not convinced there will be much of a "next trial." I don't see how the Crown could have amassed a stronger case in the LB death than they did against CN - and they admitted they did not have direct evidence of her knowledge and involvement, therefore would have had great difficulty ensuring a conviction. Since the LB investigation began much later, after evidence could be (and almost certainly was) destroyed, there may be little other than circumstantial findings to implicate DM and MS. We will have to see.

Obviously, we were led to believe that the case against CN was much stronger than it actually was. I think it highly likely that the next two cases will be more of the same, especially given the challenge of evidence-gathering long after the fact.

They may just be hanging those indictments over the guilty parties' heads in order to, hopefully, extract further information. Such as, what did they do with the rest of Tim's remains. That has never been disclosed.