Cindy is Unbelievable

[Intermezzo]

I've just finished reading over the posts from about the 4/20th to today and see the most frequently asked question was why didn't she do this 3 years ago.

When you watched Cindy just begin to describe the web of deceit, manipulation and lies from ICA leading up to and after ICA killed Caylee, did you not even get an inkling of why she didn't "muster up the will 3 years ago"? Seriously?

Something occurred to me as I woke up this morning. Does that ever happen to you? The instant you are awake you have an answer to a question you didn't realize you were asking?

So - fellow posters - puzzle me this! :waitasec:

Cindy has had a belief about what happened to Caylee, and who is responsible for her death. Cindy has done many many irrational and hurtful things because she believed her daughter was innocent. She said ugly accusations about people because people have said ugly accusations about ICA. Cindy has no basis for her beliefs except her experience and observations, but still this is the foundation of her belief system.

Now, after talking to their lawyer and the SA, Cindy has more facts, more information and no longer believes her daughter is innocent.

At this forum, we've discussed many things we have heard or read about Cindy. We have made many accusations about her - many of the ugly, and made suppositions based on our belief system about her. Much of what we believe hasn't been based on fact, but our own experiences in life, but has allowed us to spend three years discussing the family dynamics, our belief that Cindy has not grieved for Caylee, that Cindy chose ICA "over" Caylee. Again, this is what we assumed, and is not based on fact. That is the foundation of our belief system.

Now watching Cindy testify in court on Saturday, we have seen with our own eyes, and heard Cindy describe her love for Caylee. We saw Cindy shun ICA. We know that Cindy and George have new information regarding the defense tactics and now we also have that information. And many of us have changed our minds about Cindy.

Am I the only one here who sees some behavioral patterns that are very alike? In some ways have we not been behaving like Cindy?

Well, the above should get me run off the board if nothing else does. :truce:
Just food for thought folks....

Great post LG
I am on the :fence: in regards to Cindy...
I am digesting the testimony...but I think I will wait patiently to hear all her testimony...
She is not done this round and then down the road she testifies as a DT witness.

This is not directed to you specifically LG...
I just read BJB post on the Fight thread, some of the things Cindy testified to about the evening of June15th just doesn't totally jive with me IMO..
Looking at BJB's post below I don't see a break in ICA's phone use until 9:26..I don't see where she had the time to take Caylee, give her a bath, get her ready for bed, download the pictures and videos and watch it with Cindy and Caylee unless it all happened between 9:26 and 10:06PM:waitasec:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83435"]Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
SNIPPED

BondJamesBond
Sunday, 6/15/08

@ ~9:12AM Cindy and Caylee left for Mt. Dora (see Conway toll 9:27AM - 15 mins to toll from G&C's per Google Maps)
Per E-Pass records here

@ ~9AM Casey left G&C's and arrived @ Tony's ~9:15AM.

@ ~2:48PM Cindy & Caylee returned home to Hopespring. Per E-Pass records (and consistent w/ statements) (see matching Conway toll @ 2:33PM + 15 mins to toll from G&C's per Google Maps).

@ 3:35PM Cindy called Casey's cell from the Hopespring home phone. Casey let this call roll to vmail, and Cindy left a 36 second vmail.

@ 3:45PM Kyle called Casey's cell phone and Casey let this one roll to vmail also. At no time during this period did Casey interact w/ her phone.

@ 5:06PM, w/o checking vmail, Casey called G&C's Hopespring home phone from her cell phone @ Tony's apt. for a 3 minute conversation, or left a 3minute answering machine message.

...2 hours passed, w/ no activity on Casey's cell...

@ 7:06PM Casey began a text dialogue w/ Tony while she was still near his apartment. The pings from this conversation indicate Casey left Tony's ~7:06PM.

@ 7:10PM Casey already enroute & unprompted, called G&C's Hopespring home phone for a 1 minute conversation or answering machine message.

@ 7:36PM Casey arrived @ G&C's Hopespring home.

...between 7:06PM and 9:26PM Casey was engaged in a continuous texting conversation w/ Tony (and a little w/ Amy). The single greatest lapse between their texts was 11minutes @ 8:56 w/ most of them in the 2 minute range.

@ 9:26PM a period of cell inactivity lasting 39 minutes began (Inactivity Period I) . (IMHO, this seems to be a good candidate for "the fight")

@ 10:06PM Casey ended the cell inactivity when she received a text from Tony by placing a call to Tony and talking w/ him for 10minutes (IMHO, this also would seem to be indicative of the fight having just taken place)

@ 10:25PM the heavy texting between Casey and Tony resumed for the balance of the night...with a 40minute break @ 11PM. "(Inactivity Period II)

Note: WhyamIsoInterested observed this second period of inactivity would've encompassed the time George likely returned home and perhaps Casey spent a few minutes w/ him...being Father's Day... and apparently having not spent much time w/ him that day.

@ 11:44PM Casey called Tony for an 80-minute marathon phone call.

Some other things to consider...

 

[Gma Kat]

I've just finished reading over the posts from about the 4/20th to today and see the most frequently asked question was why didn't she do this 3 years ago.

When you watched Cindy just begin to describe the web of deceit, manipulation and lies from ICA leading up to and after ICA killed Caylee, did you not even get an inkling of why she didn't "muster up the will 3 years ago"? Seriously?

Something occurred to me as I woke up this morning. Does that ever happen to you? The instant you are awake you have an answer to a question you didn't realize you were asking?

So - fellow posters - puzzle me this! :waitasec:

Cindy has had a belief about what happened to Caylee, and who is responsible for her death. Cindy has done many many irrational and hurtful things because she believed her daughter was innocent. She said ugly accusations about people because people have said ugly accusations about ICA. Cindy has no basis for her beliefs except her experience and observations, but still this is the foundation of her belief system.

Now, after talking to their lawyer and the SA, Cindy has more facts, more information and no longer believes her daughter is innocent.

At this forum, we've discussed many things we have heard or read about Cindy. We have made many accusations about her - many of the ugly, and made suppositions based on our belief system about her. Much of what we believe hasn't been based on fact, but our own experiences in life, but has allowed us to spend three years discussing the family dynamics, our belief that Cindy has not grieved for Caylee, that Cindy chose ICA "over" Caylee. Again, this is what we assumed, and is not based on fact. That is the foundation of our belief system.

Now watching Cindy testify in court on Saturday, we have seen with our own eyes, and heard Cindy describe her love for Caylee. We saw Cindy shun ICA. We know that Cindy and George have new information regarding the defense tactics and now we also have that information. And many of us have changed our minds about Cindy.

Am I the only one here who sees some behavioral patterns that are very alike? In some ways have we not been behaving like Cindy?

Well, the above should get me run off the board if nothing else does. :truce:
Just food for thought folks....

Fabulous post LG...........I know I have been really hard on GA and CA, and IMO they deserved it. I also hoped and prayed they would redeem themselves. There is a long way to go before this trial is over and the defense hasn't had a chance to cross CA...........I'm praying for them for strength and compusure as the DT surely tests their will.

It is easy to forgive and feel the heartbreak GA and CA are experiencing now. I only wish they hadn't had to suffer for 3-years just to end up here. I pray they stay strong and remain faithful to Caylee throughout this trial.

 

[technicalconfusion]

Am I the only one here who sees some behavioral patterns that are very alike? In some ways have we not been behaving like Cindy?

You've been talking to my mother apparently. She said almost the exact same thing on Monday.

 

[larryphx]

Cindy said it all "I stopped looking for Zanny 6 weeks ago"
That HAD to mean something.
Team Cindy here... they had a horrible daughter, who knows how you would act.
Wonder what happened 6 weeks ago?

 

[larryphx]

I have watched and watched every video in this case 4 times... I'm addicted to this case.

 

[akashana]

The Anthonys have behaved deplorably in the past three years, but I believe they did whatever they did under the belief that their daughter really was innocent of the murder of their granddaughter. It is only recently that they have come face-to-face with the incontrovertible evidence of her guilt. George knew he hadn't molested KC, that he had never discovered the body in the pool. Cindy knew he hadn't either. Faced with these lies and the evidence of the duct tape, the Anthonys had to face the horrific truth once and for all. They were given no choice, really. Either George had to fall on his sword and admit (falsely) that he was a pedophile and a participant in various felonious acts, or they had to accept the truth their daughter was a murderer and tell the truth in court. I regret the lives they had a hand in derailing with their allegations and accusations, yet I can understand - to a degree - what they were trying to do. I like to believe that faced with similar circumstances (God forbid!), I would not behave as badly, but none of us really know what we would do in such untenable circumstances. I am just glad that they have gptten off the bus and poured out the Kool-Aid. In life, they tried to do what was best for little Caylee, and now it seems as if they will honor her memory by standing up for the truth, even if it sends their killer daughter to Death Row.

 

[gmt]

We do not know yet if the A family is helping the defense, GA seemed to be showing his temper about the gas cans, was it real for the defense? CA said many things that I question, starting with how early she had heard of Zanny, how much harder she was on LA, she seemed to me to really showed how much "she" was Caylees mom,a few more I can't recall , but they both could be appearing to be on the SA side so that the jury will see a controlling mother and a hot temper dad. I want to believe but will never forget giving nothing to searchers, and the MISUSE of missing kids org.

 

[nitasch]

Since the beginning, I have watched CA show genuine remorse, and concern for Caylee, yet, blindly desire to believe her daughter was innocent...to betting her life thta her daughter was being truthful.

Being a new grandmother in the past two years, I try really hard to relate to her position. It is tough, because my daughter with the near two year old, is not a pathological liar..she is not a narcissistic person at all, yet a truely loving and devoted mother (of two now).

But, I have given a lot of thought to this over the years, and tried to put myself in the same postion CA, and I can see (really stretching) how she would hold out that smallest bit of hope she had that this was all just a nightmare,, maybee ICA was telling the truth, maybe Caylee was still alive, that is ALL SHE HAD TO HOLD ON TO. If she lost hold of that, then so much of her world was lost.

Even after the body was found, she held onto the "hope" that the science was wrong, this was not really Caylee they found. There was no way for her to recognize a face, or anything like the body of Caylee that she knew and loved. The science had to be wrong in her mind.... losing a child is one of the most severely emotional times a family member will go through...

I think CA was desperately lost and on hold in the "denial" stage of grief, otherwise she would have to face that her daughter was not telling the truth, and that she would lose her daughter as well... not to mention the fact she would have to face the fact the daughter that she raised was capable to disposing her baby in the woods..and we all know how that turned out.

I am not saying that all of CA's actions and accusations should be forgiven and forgotten, but I CAN give her the benefit of the doubt...that she did not have any evil intent, she just could not come to grips with the reality of the situation till 6 weeks ago...now she knows, now she sees her daughter for who and what she is.. has to be incredibly hard...but at least she has gotten there.

 

[logicalgirl]

You've been talking to my mother apparently. She said almost the exact same thing on Monday.

:silly: ........So...Ah....hmmmm....so how do you feel about your Mother?:innocent:

 

[OneLostGrl]

RBBM. I see the opposite. To me, the willingness of people here to change their minds about Cindy because she finally testified truthfully for two hours, with no signs of her former slyness or belligerence, isn't an indication that we've been judging her unfairly in the past. Rather, I see it as a testimonial to people's desire to be fair-minded, objective, and forgiving.

It's an undeniable fact that Cindy's behavior for three years was ugly and deplorable, and unlike that of any other person whose child was accused of murdering a family member.

We judged her, appropriately, on her words and conduct. I don't think many of us ever doubted that Cindy adored Caylee, but it's undeniable
that Cindy was more focused on saving KC than getting justice for Caylee. I'm not saying that's wrong of her; but it is what it is.

Now, after her daughter's and JB's heinous public accusations of sexual abuse, etc., Cindy appears to have abandoned the fight to save KC and to fight instead for her husband, her son, and herself.

None of us will ever know for sure which of KC's admissions/accusations caused Cindy to turn her back on KC.

Great post Friday. And you had front row seats to this side show! *hug* Have missed ya!

 

[logicalgirl]

Great post LG
I am on the :fence: in regards to Cindy...
I am digesting the testimony...but I think I will wait patiently to hear all her testimony...
She is not done this round and then down the road she testifies as a DT witness.

This is not directed to you specifically LG...
I just read BJB post on the Fight thread, some of the things Cindy testified to about the evening of June15th just doesn't totally jive with me IMO..
Looking at BJB's post below I don't see a break in ICA's phone use until 9:26..I don't see where she had the time to take Caylee, give her a bath, get her ready for bed, download the pictures and videos and watch it with Cindy and Caylee unless it all happened between 9:26 and 10:06PM:waitasec:

Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
SNIPPED

No argument from me Intermezzo - there are a lot of big details and a lot of small ones we don't know the answers to (except I suspect CA actually got Caylee in her jammies). I also want to know those answers.

But I have a feeling we will be piecing information together for a while now. As long as LDB is running the show, I think details like was there a big fight that same night (about money thefts, etc) and if so what happened - will only come out in LDB's good time. I think she has this prosecution scripted very tightly, and we won't hear it until she is ready.

I guess my diatribe was mainly hoping friends here could suspend beliefs systems for the trial and really listen. We might end up with the same opinions as we did before the trial! But there is no chance of hearing anything but what we already believe if we aren't open to it.

It's going to be a wild ride and your guess is as good as mine where we'll end up. No wait a minute - edit - ICA will be found guilty of all charges, but other than that....:great:

 

[MDdetective]

No argument from me Intermezzo - there are a lot of big details and a lot of small ones we don't know the answers to (except I suspect CA actually got Caylee in her jammies). I also want to know those answers.

But I have a feeling we will be piecing information together for a while now. As long as LDB is running the show, I think details like was there a big fight that same night (about money thefts, etc) and if so what happened - will only come out in LDB's good time. I think she has this prosecution scripted very tightly, and we won't hear it until she is ready.

I guess my diatribe was mainly hoping friends here could suspend beliefs systems for the trial and really listen. We might end up with the same opinions as we did before the trial! But there is no chance of hearing anything but what we already believe if we aren't open to it.

It's going to be a wild ride and your guess is as good as mine where we'll end up. No wait a minute - edit - ICA will be found guilty of all charges, but other than that....:great:

bbm
good point! I am trying to look at everything thru the jury's eyes but it's so hard after watching this case from the beginning. I have a lot of faith in LDB. I think she is pacing herself well and she is very disarming as opposed to JB. I can't take his thuggy attitude and I hope the jury feels it too.

 

[armywife210]

I was going to quote somebody but I can't remember who. Oh well. About Cindy/Casey/Caylee after the pool on the night of the 15th. Someone said that they didn't think Casey had time to be using her cell phone AND getting Caylee changed, uploading the photos/videos and watching them. It depends...was she talking on the phone or texting? Texting is rarely done by itself. I've done laundry while texting, cooked while texting, cleaned the house while texting, etc. I can see a self absorbed young woman texting while getting her child changed and into PJ's and while downloading pics and video as well as watching them.

 

[claudicici]

I agree.WHen I get our phone bill it's always unbelievable to me how much my daughter texts and all the things she gets accomplished while texting.It's second nature to her.

 

[miss plum]

If KC got Caylee out of the pool as CA testified, it seems quite likely she would bath her and put her into her pyjamas then.

 

[zadari]

well one main reason cindy didnt believe it was caylee for so long is bc she counted cayless teeth i guess when they came in the body had 20 teeth cindy thought caylee only had 18 but the other two teeth probably werent showing yet that is why i think she has had SOME hope .. desperate type of hope tht caylee was alive .so as im finding out more im starting to understand her more .. shes not a monster like her daughter not at all .. caylee was so loved by her

 

[Solomisskitty]

I didn't follow all of Cindy's antics prior to trial, but watching her testimony and demeanor this morning, at least for me, is heartbreaking. I see a mother who has been hit smack in the face with reality.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I feel empathy for Cindy. I don't care what she said or did a few years ago or even up to this month, she is clearly a woman with feelings who is hurt. She loved her grandchild and still does and she also loves her daughter. No one wants to believe that a family member is an alleged murderer and no one wants to believe that someone you love has lied to you about pretty much everything.

I want to give Cindy a hug. She has 1000% more feelings, emotion and love than Casey does in her pinky.

 

[akashana]

Cindy has made herself an easy target over the past few years. She has behaved in a manner that is perceived as outrageous, given the circumstances. She has fed the flames of public opinion with her media comments and antics that have been well-documented. She was derided, and deservedly so.

But she was also a woman struggling to come to grips with a horror most of us cannot fathom, something no parent and grandparent should have to endure. Her world, her tidy little life, broke into a million pieces and can never be whole again. She stayed deep in denial, occasionally venturing out into the stage of anger, or dwelling in depression. Her anger and denial allowed her to semi-function, to cling to some small chance Caylee was alive somewhere. She must have thought about the case of Elizabeth Smart, the lucky one who was once again back home with her loving family, snatched from the hands of a pedophile after everyone thought she was dead. Cindy couldn't face that Caylee was dead, that KC had killed her. It was just too horrific.

But KC upped the ante when she tried to destroy George and Lee, the only family Cindy has left. She knew those were more lies in the endless web spun by KC. There had been no molestation, no discovery of a drowned Caylee. Now Cindy had to face for the first time maybe in her life the real truth about her only daughter. And it's heartbreaking to see her so emotionally raw and in such great pain.

 

[gramcracker]

I just can't help wondering if, in a parallel universe w/o claims of molestation/covering up a drowning, we would be seeing this "new" CA or the same one we endured for so long

does she still cover for her beloved KC "over there", in a place where she/CA isn't forced to choose between husband and daughter? because, in the only universe we're aware of (while she could "keep" all of them), she chose KC over Caylee for the looooongest time