Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

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30 women stalked per night?

30 trips into between Northbridge and Claremont per night? What time does he finish up? Is he a wreck at work on Fridays if he's out so late on Thursday nights? Thurs-Sun are the nights that Club Bay View was open late right?
Don't know. It was in DM's book. I may have read it wrong. Stalking 30 women in a night - possible with a loose definition of "stalk". Northbridge to Claremont 30 times - seems a stretch. Maybe I read it wrong and she was talking about LW having 30 women in his line of sight every night.

I think the point is that he's a stalker of women. He goes out on the same nights each week, drives the same routes each week, and stalks women.

Do you have exact dates for the June 1996 admission to psychiatric hospital?
Nope. Was in DM's book. Be interesting if it was within a week of JR. I think we can assume he wasn't in the fruit shop when JR went missing otherwise he'd have an alibi.

I find these parts odd - the fact he has been under surveillance, picked up an undercover police officer and let her out safely, and then they set up a sting and arrest him before he has even picked up the woman. Why?
Dunno. I think it's explainable why he let the woman out:

1. He may have been doing a dry run to see if the coast was clear because he sensed (because of media scrutiny) that police would be about
2. He may have smelled a rat
3. Apparently the girl was 35, brunette and looked like a bogan.

Why they stung him before the next undercover got in his car? Incompetence maybe? Maybe they were so sure it was him they felt they didn't need to? Or maybe they thought, even though she is wired, he may harm her fatally and there's nothing they can do.

If LW is the CSK then he used a secondary site. But he had to use his car. They didn't search his car until 13 months after CG. Unsure how reasonable it is to expect to find trace.
 
I see where you're coming from but think about JR. It was a taxi rank. At least one person would have noticed a plain car pull up and try convince a girl to get in. Plus we see in the footage other taxis pick people up so clearly she can see they are running that night.

Once maybe, but three girls getting in a car with a stranger.... Seems like a reach.
It's definitely a reach but no matter what POI you look at, there's going to be a reach with some part of the story.

I don't think it was a taxi rank (the taxi rank was across the road) but yes, people often did get cabs from outside Conti. She may have walk around the corner onto Gugeri St. No idea why she would get into a stranger's car? Wanted to save cash? Felt depressed and wasn't thinking straight?
 
They arrested him at that time because the policewoman panicked (she must have been Sh**ting herself) and they moved on him rather than repeat the exercise. It's as simple as that!
 
LW didn't do it. He`s a knob ! Excuse the term. :)
This is always the problem with you and your ilk ; you make definite statements with no evidence or knowledge.

You do not know he didn't do it so please refrain from making such statements.
 
It's definitely a reach but no matter what POI you look at, there's going to be a reach with some part of the story.

Hmmmm.... I see no reach with SR.

Actually I'm wondering what argument against him being the killer is...
 
Lance Williams

Abductions

SS - Friday 26 January (early Friday morning, Australia Day Public Holiday) 1996

JR - Sunday (early Sunday morning) 9 June 1996

CG - Friday (Around Midnight) 14 March 1997

About Lance

* 40 years old in 1997
* A loner with no friends who has lived most of his life with his parents
* Public Servant with MRD (Main Roads Department)
* He had lost his license long term for DUI but regained it a couple of days after SS disappearance. He had a car at the time of SS disappearance
* He drove a late model white Hyundai Sedan
* He was an expert stalker of women. He could do it without the women knowing they were being watched. He stalks up to 30 women per night.
* At 14 he fell off some ropes at North Cottesloe Scouts (across the road from where he lived) and was concussed
* Has his first nervous breakdown at 23
* Had a crack at living alone in from mid December 1995 to June 1996 (in the beach front unit cnr Marine Pde and Pearse St) but in June 1996 is plagued with depression and admitted to a psychiatric hospital. * * He then went on to live back at his parents on September 26 1996. He again lived in his Marine Pde unit from June 1997 until June 2002. After that he is back home at his parents.
* He had a drinking problem earlier on. Also had a gambling problem earlier on too. And a smoker. Gave up all three cold turkey (only a year prior to the murders). LW's self discipline and self control is well noted.
* In 1995, one of LW's close friends died, triggering him to stop drinking and smoking.
* When question by police he was measured in his answers, often taking long pauses to consider his answers. He was nonchalent, cool and detached as if the questions were being asked of someone else.
* He failed a lie detector test (resoundingly)
* He doesn't have an alibi for any of the nights. The best he has is on one night he was at home with his parents (because the other 2 nights he lived by himself in his unit). But police believe he would have gone out at 11:50am like he does every other week and his parents were none the wiser.
* He had a knife in his car. LW says it was a pocket knife like a nail clipper knife. We don't know the truth.
* In a search of his house police found a receipt for car detailing a few days after CG abduction
* Criminal profilers and psychologists have reported on everything LW has said in response to being asked if he is the killer. They have all said that it is extremely rare and very strange for a person not to get angry, upset and flustered when being wrongly accused of murder. LW has always remained very calm, and softly spoken when accused of the killings, which is inconsistent with what a normal person does when wrongly accused. During police interviews he would sometimes wait 30 secs or more before answering questions, he literally thought about and rehearsed each response. Then he failed the Polygraph and the polygraph examiner with 40 years experience had absolutely no doubt he was the murderer.
* Police bugged his parents house. When police would visit, after they left the Williams' (Lance, his Mum and his Dad) would just go about business as if nothing happened. They didn't discuss it.
* Lance was treated like a 14 year old at home. 40 years old and his Mum would sometimes send him to bed with no dinner. Lace appeared to be female emasculated.
* He has a history of violent acts, one in particular that is alarming
* He regularly visited prostitutes. Always hand relief, never sex. He'd go for young blondes.
* He once went to the home of one of the hookers he was frequenting. She was young and lived at home with her parents. They didn't know. She told him to f-off. She doesn't know how he knew where she lived but it is assumed he followed her home. She was young and blonde.

Surveillance and Arrest

* Macro commandeer so speed cameras and set them up around Claremont and startn covert surveillance. In late September 1997 (6 months after CG disappearance) they notice LW is stalking women. They start immediate surveillance on LW.
* LW's habits are like clock work. He goes out every Thursday to Sunday from precisely 11:50pm. Occasionally it is 12:30am, but no other time. Mostly 11:50 on the dot, occasionally 12:30 on the dot, no other time. He drives straight to Claremont and does a few laps and then goes through Hungry Jack's (Burger King) Drive through and gets a large chocolate shake. He then drives onto Northbridge with his choc shake. Same route every night. Uses the same bin every night to dump his finished shake. He slowly drives through the red light district around Northbridge, then back to Claremont, and repeats up to 30 times a night.
* LW picks up a female undercover agent from the cnr of Bay View Tce and Gugeri St (same cnr JR was last seen). She asks where the bus stop is. He asks where she is going and offers her a lift. She accepts. * They get near her destination, she says she wants out of the car and gets out. DM says in her book that LW sensed something was wrong. This is speculation.
* They set up a sting on April 5 1998. LW is following a woman/undercover officer. He has passed her numerous times and looped back around. The pull out and arrest him.
* Female work colleagues had been known to request not to be left alone with him because he sometimes flies off the handle for no reason. Has a no pressure job but sometimes just cracks and loses it.
* LW is taken in for questioning on 7 occasions within 18 months. Never complains, never refuses, never gets angry.

Circumstantial Evidence and Theories

* The 3 guys at the bus stop who were the last known people to see CG reported that she was talking to the occupant/s of a white car
* Is the death of one of his close friends also the trigger for the murders?
* Apparently many psychologists believe many serial killers suffered trauma to the head in early childhood (I've never heard of this before but it's in DM's book). As a child Lance fell off some ropes and hit a concrete floor and was treated for concussion.
* I have been lead to believe there was no evidence of sexual assault with CG. LW doesn't have sex with the hookers he pays.
* How he reacted to the accusations and questioning is odd. If I were innocent, after the first few times I'd tell police to "f-off, it's not me, you're wasting time a resources on the wrong person and you should be trying to find the right person".
* He fits the profile in all ways - local, intelligent, female emasculated, early head trauma, stalks women, has OCD traits, a loner who may feel rejected by local girls, detailed his car after at least one of the murders, likes blondes, prefers hand relief than sex, no alibi, history of violence, failed polygraph, didn't get angry at police.

* The two biggest questions remain;
1.How did he convince them to get in his car?
2.Why was no evidence found in his car when searched?

reference: Debbie Marshall's book among other sources.
* I can't substantiate everything written.

This is a convincing write up of Lance Williams and of why he is a good suspect. Your knowledge of LW is impressive/scary. [emoji6]

Adolescent head trauma is very common amongst serial killers*. Here is a link that has a data sheet for various serial murderers (these are college student papers, not published articles), but "childhood head trauma" is one of the questions included for each killer.

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial_killer_timelines.htm

Many serial killers are compulsive drivers (I read this is one of the top five commonalities, but no link, don't remember the article).

I was trying to think of how Lance could get the girls into his car, and I remembered how Ed Kemper operated. LW, if he's the killer, has a lot in common with Kemper. John Douglas wrote of Kemper:

"Everything about the crimes was part of the challenge, part of the game, even figuring out how to get the victims into the car without being suspicious. He told us that when he stopped his car for a pretty girl he'd ask her where she was going, then glance at his watch as if trying to decide if he had enough time. Thinking she was dealing with a busy man who had other more important priorities than stopping for hitchhikers would immediately put her at ease and erase any suspicion."

I don't think it's a big deal that police did not find anything of forensic evidence in LW's car. He could have killed the girls outside, put a tarp in the trunk and drove them 10 miles to the disposal site.

The depression, drinking problem, failing the polygraph and being deeply bothered by his friend's death all stand in stark contrast to what is known about other organized serial killers of this type. They generally support the idea of his innocence (for this type). Don't want to argue this though, I'm no expert and there will always be killers who don't fit the mold.

Questions:
1. What type of violent acts did LW commit?
2. How do you know he preferred "hand relief"?
3. The police did search his house, correct? What type of *advertiser censored* did they find?
4. What crimes happened or were in the spotlight when he had his first breakdown 1979?

*Seriously, how many posters reading this thread had a concussion as an adolescent? Please answer, I'd love to know.

https://books.google.com/books?id=b...epage&q=ed kemper glance at watch car&f=false
 
It's definitely a reach but no matter what POI you look at, there's going to be a reach with some part of the story./QUOTE]

Hmmmm.... I see no reach with SR.

Actually I'm wondering what argument against him being the killer is...

Convince us. I'm already halfway there. You don't have to post a biography like Barth (but feel free), but can you lay out some pros and cons?
 
No interest in going too in depth as I'm not 100% sold myself. I still think judo could be a dark horse, but I tend more towards SR these days.

I think a lo has been said about him and not much more can be added but the sticking points for me are

- known degenerate
- access to taxi
- said he had SS in his cab the night before. Why even say that if you didn't have to account for dna. Also the placing of her with 'another man' that night reaks of deflection
- has bragged to people that he did it and knew in depth details whilst doing so

Basically had means and capability and a lot of things don't add up.

I thinking if we had anything more compelling than that on anyone he would have been caught by now.
 
Batholemeus, Billy Whizz, & Sutton; Do you really think a guy like LW did it? Going past women 20 to 30 times & not doing anything? Any CSK would be plotting all L.E vehicles following him, or seeing L.E waiting for him to turn right off Stirling Hgy onto Leura Ave (like always), and waiting; (to the right or left in the dark carparks) on the Leura Ave for him to pass & video him? Maybe they saw him divert from the niggly Liza Quay works onto Kings Pk Rd & they parked on the centre intersection of Kings Park Road & Outram or was it Colin Street & radioed him in after he went by. :) Just a radio s/hack bloke messaged me that piece. :)
 
Regarding the location the 2am caller gave to Sarah's father; has anyone ever figured out where this area might be?. Was this area ever searched by police?. I see that Nilgen Nature Reserve covers an area of around 5,600 hectares.

"Nilgen Nature Reserve covers an area of around 5,600 hectares and is located in the west of Australia."
http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=59411&cmd=sp

Google: From Claremont to Nilgen Nature Reserve, Lancelin WA 6044
via State Route 60 - 140 km - 1 h 45 min

It was at 2am on a Sunday morning shortly after Sarah went missing. The caller asked him, "Are you Sarah's father?"

Don won't give details of what the man said but he still believes it wasn't a hoax.

The caller gave him a location - 5600ha of dense land and bush. Don went there but the size of the location and the dense vegetation meant looking was "hopeless".

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/28295405/father-will-never-give-up-search-for-sarah-spiers/
 
That's your best argument--he's a knob? Can you elaborate?

Is that you sole criteria for determining guilt? [emoji3]

What I said is my sole criteria for saying he is a knob. He basically put himself out there. I am most certainly not saying that what he did with following women, and whatever he did etc etc & lots of etcera with the media & Police has determined his guilt. But he was out there.
 
This is a convincing write up of Lance Williams and of why he is a good suspect. Your knowledge of LW is impressive/scary. [emoji6]
I'd love to take the credit but most of it is straight out of The Devil's Garden by Debbie Marshall ISBN 978 1 74166 4669.

You can buy it from Amazon I think.

I was guilty for a long time of ruling out LW without sufficiently checking him out. The issue I always had was, because I met him a number of times, I just couldn't see this guy getting the girls into the car. Then there's a heap of people who opportunistically spruik there's little on him because it suits their stance that the police ****ed it up. I also was reluctant until recently to read DM's book because heard negative things about it. There's some dodgy journalism and some filler, but it's worth a read.

One thing to consider is, it's possible police talking to DM during her book research exagerated the facts around LW to justify their tunnel vision and decision making. Did psychiatrists really think he had to be the CSK? Did he really fail that polygraph miserably? We don't know for sure.

But I know LW drove around at all hours on weekends. The stories abut his stalking - I tend to believe them.
 
Questions:
1. What type of violent acts did LW commit?
2. How do you know he preferred "hand relief"?
3. The police did search his house, correct? What type of *advertiser censored* did they find?
4. What crimes happened or were in the spotlight when he had his first breakdown 1979?

5. Seriously, how many posters reading this thread had a concussion as an adolescent? Please answer, I'd love to know.
1. Don't know. DM's book says "violent acts". I've been told by someone it was one violent act and it was bad, but not really bad. He was not charged by police.
2. The book says. Meaning, a cop gave Debbie Marshall the information. Can't see any reason it wouldn't be true.
3. Don't know. He was emasculated by his Mum. Might not have had any in fear of Mummy finding it. No internet in those days either so it's not like the newsagent at Eric St shops were selling Young Blonde Corpse Magazine. You'd hope the police have monitored all the main POI's internet usage since to see what gets them off.
4. I'm unaware of any. There was this one in 1983:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/sha...d-be-freed-claim/story-e6frg12c-1225757077520

I think the guy who people are saying is innocent is in fact guilty. LW's parents ran a service station in Mosman Park on the highway. Not sure which one it is, but there are two of them and one of them is about 50m away from where Sharon Mason was buried.

* never had concussion.
 
Yep J.Man ruled out too. I said LW didn`t do it. In fact I said everyone mentioned so far in any blog didn`t do it. :) Which leaves Cops in a not so good a space... Everyone likes a tight space..
 
Yep J.Man ruled out too. I said LW didn`t do it. In fact I said everyone mentioned so far in any blog didn`t do it. :) Which leaves Cops in a not so good a space... Everyone likes a tight space..
You have just shown why you lack credibility. You're just another one of the "I'm going to present my opinion as fact" brigade.
 
...
3. Have you watched the Sunday Night episode from a few months back? It's all old information but pretty sure they say that someone called DS and police want to talk to that person. Can anyone confirm?...
...
Originally posted by enzeder, not Barth ...Is this the programme you are referring to?. I'll post the links below in case others haven't seen it.

VIDEO The Claremont Killer - part one 15:38 mins
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/28295405/father-will-never-give-up-search-for-sarah-spiers/
...
The Claremont Killer - part two
by 7News 11:23 mins
https://uk.screen.yahoo.com/claremont-killer-part-two-104500351.html

This article (at first link above) mentions someone calling Sarah's father at 2am.
Multi-quote is broken.

RSBM. I just watched this. Interesting. It's not been proven the caller was the killer (or had inside info), but it is suspected.

It's not on the video (I don't think), but it is in the article, as enzeder posted.

The caller gave him a location - 5600ha of dense land and bush. Don went there but the size of the location and the dense vegetation meant looking was "hopeless".
 
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