crabstick
Former Member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2014
- Messages
- 2,315
- Reaction score
- 16
Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia
- Thread starter MistyM
- Start date
- Status
GreenDevil
New Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2015
- Messages
- 129
- Reaction score
- 5
Why does that mean they have DNA?
Hi GreenDevil, and welcome. Thanks for chiming in here, I've found your posts interesting, hope you continue to contribute.
With so many cold cases getting solved here in Vic since Ron Iddles kicked off the new, improved cold case squad, it's been very interesting watching the resolution of cases - some going back 30 years or more - in which the police have had a prime suspect never openly mentioned in the media, that they've sat on all that time... Waiting, I'd presume, for a break that will give them enough to haul the suspect in.
So if indeed there are similar things happening in this case, it may be many more years until they move in on the killer. It might be tomorrow, who knows. Let's hope it's closer to the latter.
As frustrating as it is for those among the public, and for the families, to have to wait, I feel it's in this case necessary to have patience and trust that what can be done is being done, and sooner or later this will be nabbed.
If my intuitions regarding his narcissism are correct, it'll probably come as a huge surprise that anyone could be more clever than he. I'd pay money to be there when that particular bubble bursts.
With so many cold cases getting solved here in Vic since Ron Iddles kicked off the new, improved cold case squad, it's been very interesting watching the resolution of cases - some going back 30 years or more - in which the police have had a prime suspect never openly mentioned in the media, that they've sat on all that time... Waiting, I'd presume, for a break that will give them enough to haul the suspect in.
So if indeed there are similar things happening in this case, it may be many more years until they move in on the killer. It might be tomorrow, who knows. Let's hope it's closer to the latter.
As frustrating as it is for those among the public, and for the families, to have to wait, I feel it's in this case necessary to have patience and trust that what can be done is being done, and sooner or later this will be nabbed.
If my intuitions regarding his narcissism are correct, it'll probably come as a huge surprise that anyone could be more clever than he. I'd pay money to be there when that particular bubble bursts.
GreenDevil
New Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2015
- Messages
- 129
- Reaction score
- 5
Has anyone heard about the possibility of a light coloured station wagon with a male occupant offering women lifts and making advancements towards them around the time of the Claremont killings? I know this vision is of Ciara talking to the occupants of this light coloured vehicle, but I wonder if the WA Police ever went public and asked for assistance from women who had either been offered a lift and declined, or were offered a lift and accepted then had problems or even if they were offered a lift and delivered without a problem.
I find it hard to believe that the three victims were the only times the CSK ever approached young ladies for a lift. If WA Police went public they might be able to find a living witness. I know it's been 19 years, but it's never too late.
This is where I have ended up after following this story for many years and recently reading the Bigfooty thread - all 134 pages. There seems to be a lot of focus on small details because of the lack of information to go on - so when you simplify the case to it's basic elements, the scenario involving PW and SR seems the most logical.
I believe the Iona connection is purely coincidental. My post high school clubbing and pubbing experience in the late 90's in my local area meant a school reunion almost everytime I went out.
The only other avenue seems to be someone who knew all 3 - however I find it hard to believe in a fairly small community that police wouldn't be able to identify such a person. The Judoman theory doesn't seem particularly compelling to me.
Additionally if I follow the Mystery Man lead down the rabbit hole I'm again not compelled to jump to any conclusion. It seems most likely after the brief exchange that occurred, JR jumped in a taxi. The only part that caught my imagination here is when this person was identified, by name, on Bigfooty (A.B). Limited searching reveals an interesting connection to the Printing industry theory however again this largely appears to be all based on speculation.
For a brief period in that other thread there was an ex WA cop posting. That wasn't really taken advantage of. That poster was seemingly willing to post cryptically to provide inside information.
Unfortunately that topic and this one, on the lack of further information, are so quickly derailed by lunatics and madmen.
I sincerely hope that one day this case is cracked, I believe the best hope for that conclusion is the police offer the public more opportunity to be involved. Even after all these years, someone somewhere will have the right evidence if the right opportunity is afforded them.
GreenDevil
New Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2015
- Messages
- 129
- Reaction score
- 5
In my opinion, based upon SR's profiling and lack of intelligence there is no way that he could bluff his way through a Police record of interview with a solid line of questioning, that is gone over and over again, he would be caught out lying. During the Police interviews, they have to explain what they did for the entire night/day that the murders occurred or the person went missing. That story is then checked and triple checked, if they are lying then it will become apparent, especially when hooked up to polygraph. If if the person is making up their movements, it becomes very difficult to continue lying.
Look, there is number of POI's other then just LKW, PW and SR. There is at least three other POI's, that have been closely looked at and have the ability and opportunity to have committed the crimes.
The light coloured station wagon is the key, IMO there is also significant background information as to why that vehicle is the key. WAPOL would have investigated connected crimes and crimes/acts committed which murder is an escalation. Perhaps, one of the POI's worked for a company that used these types of vehicles which was a light coloured station wagon, possibly a company/fleet vehicle. Maybe that POI had over night access to the vehicles and the company had very loose record keeping of which employee had what vehicle, making it impossible to track.
Look, there is number of POI's other then just LKW, PW and SR. There is at least three other POI's, that have been closely looked at and have the ability and opportunity to have committed the crimes.
The light coloured station wagon is the key, IMO there is also significant background information as to why that vehicle is the key. WAPOL would have investigated connected crimes and crimes/acts committed which murder is an escalation. Perhaps, one of the POI's worked for a company that used these types of vehicles which was a light coloured station wagon, possibly a company/fleet vehicle. Maybe that POI had over night access to the vehicles and the company had very loose record keeping of which employee had what vehicle, making it impossible to track.
What is this based on? I'm not trying to be deliberately contrary here I've just seen this comment made a lot. Having read so many wild theories I like to approach this case with as much common sense as possible.
I certainly agree that the station wagon is critical to the fate of CG. Logic suggests she gets in this car. It's possible that this car is a taxi too - the witnesses are 3 blokes at a couple of hundred meters away, possibly intoxicated. Edit: upon review of the CIA video the description of that vehicle is merely "a light coloured vehicle" and there are possible sightings of CG further down the road. Based on this I'm more inclined to think this lines up with a taxi being the vehicle - whether or not it picks her up then and there is open to scrutiny also. Again my logic here is that all 3 have left reasonably populated areas with minimal suspicion aroused. I suppose that ties in with the police looking at Taxi drivers quite strongly.
It's interesting that PW and SR were hauled in/raided immediately following or during the 2004 case review. It suggests that there is a strong suspicion to compel police to keep coming back to these blokes.
I think it's fair to assume, given that the killer has apparently stopped, that's it's likely he's someone police have spoken to on numerous occasions. Thus he's smart enough and able to stop (or he is dead).
Just on CG, if you could prove a link between SD and CG (and therefore all 3 girls) I think you'd have your only other strong POI. That appears to be the fishing expedition that Steve Liebmann and WAPOL wanted to take us on.
Could someone from WA clarify the Taxi situation that would have existed in Claremont in the 1990's. We know there were dispatched taxis that would be requested by telephone. Were there also taxis that cruised the streets and be flagged down by potential customers? In addition, I have read references to a "taxi stand" near the Claremont Hotel where taxis would wait in an orderly fashion for fares. Did this exist and were taxis generally available late at night? Also,, there is the issue of what are called Gypsy Cabs in the US. They are just guys with cars but no License who illegally pick up passengers usually at a cut rate. Did they exist in the Perth area at the time.
We know that SS called for dispatched taxi but was not there when it arrived. CG was believed to be seeking a taxi but apparently never phoned for a dispatched cab. Was she seeking a ride from another type of taxi. JR had declined to share a taxi ride with her friends and was last seen standing in front of the Claremont Hotel. It was assumed that she was waiting for somebody (who she may not have wanted her friends to know about) but she may have been waiting for her own taxi. Perhaps she was going elsewhere other than home and did not want her friends to know about it or she had some other reason to ride alone. ( if there was a taxi stand nearby, would it have made more sense to go there directly rather than wait in front of the hotel?).
Taxis seem to be a very reasonable place to start. We know that none were in a dispatched taxi but they may have been using other types.
It is very possible that SS got into a cruising taxi that saw she was waiting for a dispatched cab and either presented himself as the dispatched cab or she took it so she wouldn't have to wait any longer. She may have been forcibly abducted but it was a pretty visible spot. The other possibility is that someone she knew offered her a ride.
JR was waiting in a very public place. It seems highly unlikely that she was forcibly abducted. Were a Gypsy taxi driver to offer her a ride, I would expect some time spent negotiating over terms before she would get in the vehicle. The time between the sweeps of the CCTV camera seem to so short that there would be little time for any negotiations. She may have been offered a ride from someone she knew who just happened to see her there, but, again you would expect there to be a bit of discussion before she hopped in the car.
CG may have been witnessed by 3 witnesses hitch hiking (it seems to me very unlikely that a 27 year old lawyer would hitch hike) and get into a vehicle that was not marked as a taxi. It is possible that she was getting into a car of someone she knew and had planned to meet up with or possibly it was a gypsy cab. It may very well be that the witnesses did not see CG at all and we have no clues as to what happened.
Overall, we can probably rule out some guy who who just drove around trying to charm women into his car. There would have been reports from other women of unsuccessful attempts. Forcible abduction seems very unlikely because of the very public spot JR was waiting and the somewhat public spot SS was waiting. Assuming JR continued to wait a the place she was waiting before she encountered Mystery Man, it would seem she left the scene very quickly.
As far as I can see, there perpetrator is either someone they knew and trusted who got them to freely get in his vehicle or a taxi driver (or someone driving a vehicle being represented as a taxi).
We know that SS called for dispatched taxi but was not there when it arrived. CG was believed to be seeking a taxi but apparently never phoned for a dispatched cab. Was she seeking a ride from another type of taxi. JR had declined to share a taxi ride with her friends and was last seen standing in front of the Claremont Hotel. It was assumed that she was waiting for somebody (who she may not have wanted her friends to know about) but she may have been waiting for her own taxi. Perhaps she was going elsewhere other than home and did not want her friends to know about it or she had some other reason to ride alone. ( if there was a taxi stand nearby, would it have made more sense to go there directly rather than wait in front of the hotel?).
Taxis seem to be a very reasonable place to start. We know that none were in a dispatched taxi but they may have been using other types.
It is very possible that SS got into a cruising taxi that saw she was waiting for a dispatched cab and either presented himself as the dispatched cab or she took it so she wouldn't have to wait any longer. She may have been forcibly abducted but it was a pretty visible spot. The other possibility is that someone she knew offered her a ride.
JR was waiting in a very public place. It seems highly unlikely that she was forcibly abducted. Were a Gypsy taxi driver to offer her a ride, I would expect some time spent negotiating over terms before she would get in the vehicle. The time between the sweeps of the CCTV camera seem to so short that there would be little time for any negotiations. She may have been offered a ride from someone she knew who just happened to see her there, but, again you would expect there to be a bit of discussion before she hopped in the car.
CG may have been witnessed by 3 witnesses hitch hiking (it seems to me very unlikely that a 27 year old lawyer would hitch hike) and get into a vehicle that was not marked as a taxi. It is possible that she was getting into a car of someone she knew and had planned to meet up with or possibly it was a gypsy cab. It may very well be that the witnesses did not see CG at all and we have no clues as to what happened.
Overall, we can probably rule out some guy who who just drove around trying to charm women into his car. There would have been reports from other women of unsuccessful attempts. Forcible abduction seems very unlikely because of the very public spot JR was waiting and the somewhat public spot SS was waiting. Assuming JR continued to wait a the place she was waiting before she encountered Mystery Man, it would seem she left the scene very quickly.
As far as I can see, there perpetrator is either someone they knew and trusted who got them to freely get in his vehicle or a taxi driver (or someone driving a vehicle being represented as a taxi).
Aberline_1979
New Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2012
- Messages
- 131
- Reaction score
- 2
Bit of an update here - next Sunday night (31 May) at 8:50 on Channel 7 there is a program about the Claremont Serial Killer.
I just switched on the TV and happened to catch a brief preview for it. They seemed to be implying that the police know/knew who the killer was/is, but haven't been able to prove it...yet. They also mentioned something about an "unmarked police car".
It's channel 7, so it was a bit sensationalistic, etc...but hopefully the actual program itself will be worth watching. I don't know how long it will go for...yet...but it starts at 8:50 PM, channel 7, Sunday 31 May.
I'll be watching for sure. It's VERY interesting to see this now. This would have to be the first new program about the Claremont Serial Killer since the 2008 Crime Investigation Australia show....right? And it's come at a time when the CSK story is coming back into the news again. Some recent articles (for those who may have missed them):
2014:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...uest-dna-samples/story-fnhocxo3-1227168035093
2015:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...a-glennons-death/story-fnhocxo3-1227173673919
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...-serial-killings/story-fnhocxo3-1227272029180
I just switched on the TV and happened to catch a brief preview for it. They seemed to be implying that the police know/knew who the killer was/is, but haven't been able to prove it...yet. They also mentioned something about an "unmarked police car".
It's channel 7, so it was a bit sensationalistic, etc...but hopefully the actual program itself will be worth watching. I don't know how long it will go for...yet...but it starts at 8:50 PM, channel 7, Sunday 31 May.
I'll be watching for sure. It's VERY interesting to see this now. This would have to be the first new program about the Claremont Serial Killer since the 2008 Crime Investigation Australia show....right? And it's come at a time when the CSK story is coming back into the news again. Some recent articles (for those who may have missed them):
2014:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...uest-dna-samples/story-fnhocxo3-1227168035093
2015:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...a-glennons-death/story-fnhocxo3-1227173673919
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...-serial-killings/story-fnhocxo3-1227272029180
PavoAustralis
New Member
- Joined
- May 22, 2015
- Messages
- 13
- Reaction score
- 0
Hi hi, I'm a newbie. Have been lurking & reading for about a week now. I'm a Perth girl, born and raised. I turned 14 in 1996. Yes, you could flag taxis down back then in Perth. Not sure about a specific taxi stand at or near the Claremont Hotel, but it seems likely.
You've raised some good points, I believe. It looks very much as though JR was waiting for someone. It doesn't make sense otherwise for her to be standing there for so long, and then looking at her watch.
Alice Bernadette
Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 77
- Reaction score
- 2
This should be very interesting. In the blurbs it mentions an unmarked police car. I'll definitely be watching. Whoever did these crimes must have some previous history. You don't just become a full blown serial killer. I've always felt the police must have a good idea who it is.
Alice Bernadette
Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 77
- Reaction score
- 2
Good police work, dna etc will get this person. Psychics are a waste of time and of no value. In here you can read about Don Spiers and his experience with clairvoyants. I'm just a complete non-believer in psychics.
http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2003/s1042100.htm
Kemo, I know for a fact... I mean, I suspect, that there were people in Perth before, at and since that time, who had magnetic "taxi" door signs and battery powered roof top "vacant" lights with magnetic bases. These people also had magnetic signs that could "instantly" transform any typical nondescript, late model, white vehicle into a service or amenities vehicle driven by employees of companies such as Western Power, Coke, Telsta, "Live Tissue Transfer" , Perth Gas and Plumbing, Rent-a-plant, Perth Security Services and various others.
These people also had numerous sets of stolen number-plates which they would swap with the plates of whichever vehicle was used for whatever they used it for, for the duration of whatever it was they were doing, and then dispose, and "western power" and "telstra" overalls, hardhats and fluro vests, fluro "police" tape (like what you put around crime scenes) and security guard uniforms complete with walky talkies, hand cuffs and fake id.
Perth is a small city, relatively, but of course as with any large town or city in the world, organized crime will invariably start staking out their territories and niches, and I am sure these magnetic signs were used for all manners of crimes and unlawful behavior, and probably still are...
These syndicates almost all have interstate roots and/or connections and the syndicates are surprisingly interactive considering the usual borderline-cliche rivalry (though such dealings often end in normal criminally vengeful fashion when they go wrong). With Perth being as isolated as what it is, and the major transport industry between here and the other major Australian cities and ports being long haul trucking, it is also possible that if the killer/ killers had access to these signs and were in the transport industry, and they could easily be responsible for numerous unsolved murders and disappearances.
JBM was investigated for the CSK'sn but ruled out. The Falconio murder took place in a "central"meet up point for interstate drug dealings and was in the trucking industry. The people with the magnetic signs are truckies and bikies who traffic drugs interstate, and a few of them are rampant bisexual homophobes (a paradox I know, but hypocrisy is a prevailing trait of sexual sadists and psychopaths, is it not?)who network with other like-minded ****s via their cbr networks, which is the medium through which they conduct their drug dealings and other criminal activity too, and through which they can also monitor police activity (or could before the cops switched to predominantly mobile phone communications when setting up busts and stings).
They tip each other off about backpackers and hitch-hikers thumbing for lifts and know every single parking spot and rest bay between all the major cities.
They network with other truckies, bikies, taxi drivers, small plane pilots, "wandering campers" and even cops and military personnel, whom they impersonate on other required occasions (fYI not all truckies and bikies look like their cliche counterparts. It all depends on their line of work, and of course their "associates" come from all walks of life).
If you look at the lists, there definitely appear to be "clumps" of killings and disappearances. Many cases have similarities, but then they will have anomalies that don't add up because the victim doesn't fit the right profile or the MO is different or, of course, they are geographically hundreds or thousands of kilometers apart.
I still believe there is more than one killer and that these killers sometimes work separately, sometimes together and sometimes with other associates which is why they always seem to be locals with knowledge of the area and/or of the victims and why the victim profiles seem to overlap as well as MO's and locations...
All this is just "IMO" of course...
Aberline_1979
New Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2012
- Messages
- 131
- Reaction score
- 2
Yes indeed.
At the very least, you don't just pick up and murder three girls without any kind of other attempts or "practice runs" before...or after...
BuddyFranklin
New Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1
- Reaction score
- 0
Looking forward to this one.
PavoAustralis
New Member
- Joined
- May 22, 2015
- Messages
- 13
- Reaction score
- 0
I thought the police did ask for that sort of information...anyway, it would only be relevant if it was someone in just a light coloured car rather than someone in a taxi or something which looked like it. A young woman would remember (I believe) being approached by a stranger in a plain car because it would be out of the ordinary...but if a taxi slowed down so that the driver could ask her if she wanted a lift, and she was already waiting for a friend or parent or another taxi (I know that now the driver will call out the name of the person who booked; is this a post-CSK procedure perhaps? Again, I was 14 when SS vanished, so only have taxis-with-parents memories) that wouldn't be seen as strange. Taxi asks if you need a lift, you say you already have one, he leaves.
This is why I think it was someone in a taxi or a car with decals to look like a taxi - because SS had called for one. All the driver would've had to do was phrase his question "did you call for a cab?" SS - without thinking, because why would you when it's a harmless taxi driver - might have said "yes, for Spiers?" ...and there it is, she gives him all the ammo he needs. He says "Yep, hop in" and history, sadly, is made.
Thanks for the heads up. You can view the preview online here: https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/watch/28216194/this-week-the-claremont-killer/
GreenDevil
New Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2015
- Messages
- 129
- Reaction score
- 5
I think the Taxi theory has been done to death, although it can not be ruled out, I think it's more likely that the girls were offered a lift from someone they knew briefly enough to trust, or they were stalked in detail previously and the CSK knew where they lived and they were ambushed close to home were they were dropped off or when asking the girls for a lift he would provide them an offer they could not refuse by telling them he is headed to somewhere near they home location.
They could have also been provided a lift previously by the CSK, so if he asked them again they would trust him. I think that is the case for SS and JR, but CG was a different story she was forcibly abducted somewhere along the Stirling Highway by CSK. That is consistent with an escalation of violence by a serial killer, often the third victim is a massive escalation in violence.
Look, LKW fits the profiling of the CSK in almost every aspect. He had the means and opportunity to commit the crimes. He was caught out stalking women in an under cover operation (driving around following them). He failed a polygraph and the polygraph examiner who had 40 years experience was certain he was killer. He only took part in the polygraph after being pressured into it by his domineering mother. He had sex with prostitutes and proclaimed he was involved in something terrible. He was caught out blatantly lying during police interviews.
Police completely blew the covert surveillance on him and put the pressure on him too early, he got the sniff that the police were onto him and he simply stopped the killings.
Don't ever trust the Police when they say he has been ruled out. LKW will NEVER be ruled out as a suspect.
They could have also been provided a lift previously by the CSK, so if he asked them again they would trust him. I think that is the case for SS and JR, but CG was a different story she was forcibly abducted somewhere along the Stirling Highway by CSK. That is consistent with an escalation of violence by a serial killer, often the third victim is a massive escalation in violence.
Look, LKW fits the profiling of the CSK in almost every aspect. He had the means and opportunity to commit the crimes. He was caught out stalking women in an under cover operation (driving around following them). He failed a polygraph and the polygraph examiner who had 40 years experience was certain he was killer. He only took part in the polygraph after being pressured into it by his domineering mother. He had sex with prostitutes and proclaimed he was involved in something terrible. He was caught out blatantly lying during police interviews.
Police completely blew the covert surveillance on him and put the pressure on him too early, he got the sniff that the police were onto him and he simply stopped the killings.
Don't ever trust the Police when they say he has been ruled out. LKW will NEVER be ruled out as a suspect.
Fence Sitter
Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 322
- Reaction score
- 6
GreenDevil you mention a few things i have not heard before. Such as LW and prostitutes and saying he was involved in something terrible. Also what was he caught out blatantly lying about? Ive not seen anything of the above before.
- Status