Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

[billywhizz]

Apparently the length from two known bodies are 77.* kms apart, the opposite angle of 347 degs they lie, the line goes through the Claremont hotel.

Pipidinny in WADJUK means to see the breast/s sitting down here.

Ironically, the suburb now is called Trinity. Did someone know this years ago? A cartographer? Someone in the spatial industry?

There is an important item 13kms. An ex defence guy took me there at night. The police now know. Waiting... Waiting...

What does "there is an important item 13kms" mean? Where did an ex defence guy take you?

Eglinton is still called Eglinton, not Trinity, according to Google maps.

 

[perthite]

Apparently the length from two known bodies are 77.* kms apart, the opposite angle of 347 degs they lie, the line goes through the Claremont hotel.

Pipidinny in WADJUK means to see the breast/s sitting down here.

Ironically, the suburb now is called Trinity. Did someone know this years ago? A cartographer? Someone in the spatial industry?

There is an important item 13kms. An ex defence guy took me there at night. The police now know. Waiting... Waiting...

So jump on Google Maps - draw the line and post the image. Then mark your significant 13km point.

 

[AngelJoan]

What leads you to think this is a plausible theory in this case?

A "group" of serial killers as you've described would have to be exceptionally rare, particularly in such small city like Perth. If we consider this theory, you'd expect a well organsied group of people would have disposed of CG in a far less hasty manner.

Not 100% sure that CG was disposed of in a "hasty manner".

Nothing about these killings was hasty.

And it has never been proven that "groups" of serial killers are as rare as one would think they are as opposed to more successful due to their pooling of resources and other benefits of networking.

How many hundreds of unsolved murders and missing persons and that is just the ones they know about. There is anecdotal evidence that tens of overseas backpackers
go missing in Aus every year...

 

[perthite]

Not 100% sure that CG was disposed of in a "hasty manner".

Nothing about these killings was hasty.

And it has never been proven that "groups" of serial killers are as rare as one would think they are as opposed to more successful due to their pooling of resources and other benefits of networking.

How many hundreds of unsolved murders and missing persons and that is just the ones they know about. There is anecdotal evidence that tens of overseas backpackers
go missing in Aus every year...

CG was located within a few metres of a track and found within 3 weeks - the police have told us that she died within hours of disappearing. Logic would tell you that a group killing 10's or 100's of people would go to a little bit more effort in covering their tracks.

Even if there was some evidence to point to a group of people involved, do you think 5 or 6 people could go 20 years without someone eventually talking?

Edit: I just remembered this quote from the WA Govt. Forensic Psychiatrist at the time;
"Dr. Pullela said the lack of care in disposing of the two bodies so that they would not be found, challenged the police profile of the killer. Police have described the principal behind the three murders as a controlled man who had carefully planned the abductions and murderers."

 

[Bartholemeus]

Hi guys,

I was disappointed to see the Big Footy CSK closed to further comments: for a while there it was the best discussion online. I recognize a few names from the old thread. Does anyone know why it was closed? I stopped reading for a month or so due to all the sock puppet accounts and in-fighting and when I came back it was closed for comments. Sadly a once great thread deteriorated once the same mischief makers from other sites turned up and it all went way off topic. I was involved in the case as a POI (and subsequently cleared) so I'm happy to discuss my experiences with Macro and give my opinions if anyone is interested. I've yet to read the whole thread on Websleuths but from what I've seen it looks like a serious discussion which is great. If anyone would like to give me a TLR version of who the thread's main suspects are, or thoughts on the new info WAPOL dropped re: blitz attack not taxi I'd love to hear it. Also wanted to mention on Big Footy but didn't have a chance to...does anyone think the attacks in Nedlands may be related? One stabbed in the back while walking home from IGA Broadway, another female student attacked from behind on Princess Road (attacker fled on foot.) Both really ugly attacks. Clearly there are some messed up people in the world.

The whole Big Footy affair was a tragedy. Easily the best CSK related thread on the internet until a bunch of freaks invaded it and kept posting rubbish. They just couldn't help themselves.

Have you got links to the two Nedlands incidents?

I doubt they are linked to CSK. The CSK is the Chuck Norris of serial killers and doesn't make rookie mistakes where he has to run away. The CSK's mere presence makes chicks just jump into his car.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I think CSK is 2 people max. I lean to it being 1 person but can't rule out 2. Any more than that, I just can't see it.

Does anyone have any info about the suspect who was pulled over and had a plastic lined boot? From memory it was in Northbridge. I guess we'll have to wait until Sunday Night to see what it's all about but gut feeling it's a media beat up regarding a connection to the CSK.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I was involved in the case as a POI (and subsequently cleared) so I'm happy to discuss my experiences with Macro and give my opinions if anyone is interested.

From memory you were interviewed and polygraphed. I have some questions;

1. Did the police tell you why you were a suspect?
2. Why do you think you were a suspect? Some one put your name up, but what was their angle?
3. What questions did they ask (outside the polygraph test)? They obviously asked about an alibi (did they check it?). Did they ask if you knew any of them? Did they ask if you drove a light coloured station wagon?
4. From memory you lived locally just off the Hwy. Who do you think did it?

 

[Bartholemeus]

Not 100% sure that CG was disposed of in a "hasty manner".

Nothing about these killings was hasty.

And it has never been proven that "groups" of serial killers are as rare as one would think they are as opposed to more successful due to their pooling of resources and other benefits of networking.

How many hundreds of unsolved murders and missing persons and that is just the ones they know about. There is anecdotal evidence that tens of overseas backpackers
go missing in Aus every year...

I don't know why police say this but they are confident the girls were killed locally and soon after abduction. I'm also under the impression the girls were dumped on the same night (can anyone clarify that please?) SS's body hasn't been found so we don't know if the same routine was carried out but she was taken at 2am and sun rose at 5am.

Well planned, and although not "hasty" you'd have to think streamlined. The CSK didn't piss about.

What do we think he did with them? This is a bit unsavoury but he only had a short time and if police are correct in saying he killed them close to the abduction point then are we talking about necrophilia? Or did he kill them, not have any sexual relations and fantasize later? Or did he not kill them, take them back to his bachelor pad (or maybe his Mum's place) and do whatever he does and then kill them?

 

[perthite]

The police haven't released a lot of specifics here - I have read that JR was found naked. There is also mention that police are searching for specific items of clothing during their trophy raids of PW and SR.

CG was found within 18 days so you would assume that a reasonable time of death could be established. I'm not that clued in on forensic pathology but I would think they'd be able to establish a time of death within a 12 hour period perhaps? Police certainly seem very confident that they were all killed on the same night - maybe both girls wore wristwatches with a date function. Maybe I've been watching too many movies but they certainly know something they're sharing.

Edit: Someone posted some sunrise timings for the morning of the murders and deducted that there was a very short window of time in which to drive out to the dump sites and back under the cover of darkness. This is assuming the CSK wanted to be back and home before sunrise - which is probably a reasonable assumption.

 

[perthite]

He failed a polygraph and the polygraph examiner who had 40 years experience was certain he was killer.

So according to JQ in Parliament in 2008, 12 people failed the same polygraph. If that is true, and I'm inclined to believe it, I think we can safely put that evidence against LW to bed.

 

[AngelJoan]

CG was located within a few metres of a track and found within 3 weeks - the police have told us that she died within hours of disappearing. Logic would tell you that a group killing 10's or 100's of people would go to a little bit more effort in covering their tracks.

Yes but there were apparently factors about the way her body was left that raised questions about whether the killer/s were "leaving clues" and that they wanted her body found.

Even if there was some evidence to point to a group of people involved, do you think 5 or 6 people could go 20 years without someone eventually talking?

Couple of those already incarcerated are certainly staying tight lipped...

And wide spread networks of high profile professionals and media personalities overseas certainly managed to keep things under wraps for longer than a couple of decades...

 

[perthite]

Yes but there were apparently factors about the way her body was left that raised questions about whether the killer/s were "leaving clues" and that they wanted her body found.

Couple of those already incarcerated are certainly staying tight lipped...

Ok I'll bite, what were these factors that suggest they're leaving clues?

I'm also keen to know which members of the group are in the slammer now, happy to take the info via PM. Presumably they're publicly known cases and offenders.

 

[Deleted member 153673]

Being no expert, it is JMO that the perp who stabbed the chick in the back would most likely be known to her (the victim), and the attack on Princess Rd was most likely a random attack by an inexperienced perp who was most likely "testing the waters" and was easily spooked off.

You could be right. The IGA chick was walking home from the shops when he walked up behind her and plunged a knife into her back. That's pretty serious...as in not a typical sexual assault where someone tries to drag a girl into a car or into the bushes.

 

[Deleted member 153673]

Thanks for posting.

I'd be keen to know, based on your interactions the MTF, who your prime suspect is and has this changed over time?

Gday Perthite,
To be honest, MACRO kept everything extremely close to their chest. I do know that they were under a lot of pressure to find a suspect, from the media and the public. LW approached me many many times over the years to offer me a lift, and when I found out he was their lead suspect it seemed cut and dried to me at the time, but remembering back he didnt seem like he would be capable of it. Having read the BIG FOOTY thread through a couple of times I'm still not convinced it's any of the main suspects. It could be someone completely off the radar, someone who has since died or moved away. There's no reason it has to be Droc's main suspect, the ross/wegers combo or MM.

 

[Deleted member 153673]

From memory you were interviewed and polygraphed. I have some questions;

1. Did the police tell you why you were a suspect?
2. Why do you think you were a suspect? Some one put your name up, but what was their angle?
3. What questions did they ask (outside the polygraph test)? They obviously asked about an alibi (did they check it?). Did they ask if you knew any of them? Did they ask if you drove a light coloured station wagon?
4. From memory you lived locally just off the Hwy. Who do you think did it?

Hi Bartholemeus,

Big Footy was the only thread worth signing up to. Hopefully they wont delete the thread as it had some interesting stuff. For me, the Droc/Excalibur arguments ruined it and I just gave up reading. Does BillyWhizz post on here? As for your questions:

1. They said I was in the area on one or more of the nights and my name was given to them by a concerned party. They wouldn't tell me who but I suspect it was an ex girlfriend or one of her friends.

2. I lived in the area and am a bit of a night-owl so I was often out and about in the wee small hours. My guess is that, plus a malicious ex's story were enough to make me worth looking into. I was on the dole back then and had too much free time on my hands plus I lived alone (those were the days!) I often got pulled up by the police asking me what I was doing walking around Claremont or Stirling Highway at 2am but I was happy to give my ID and have a chat because I wasn't up to anything. Just restless. Quite innocent normally but during that time I guess it looked pretty suspicious. I remember LW pulling up to offer me a lift many times during those years but we can talk more about him another time if you're ever interested.

3. They asked me if I had access to a taxi specifically, and if I knew any of the victims personally. They wanted to know my whereabouts on and around specific dates but I don't think I came up with a solid alibi for those dates which was why they asked me to agree to a polygraph test. I know they were very unhappy that I didn't agree to a search of my property but in my mind it was ridiculous that I was a POI in the first place. I already had homicide detectives visiting my work, talking to my neighbours etc. Wasn't letting them sniff through my house as well.

4. At the time, I had no idea. I remember watching Susannah Carr broadcast live from the Channel 7 media van set up on Gugeri St and in the months that followed I basically kept on going out on my nightly walks. I saw the same gorgeous UWA girls stumbling home drunk down Stirling Highway at midnight and wondering if they were undercover police women. I didn't see LW again after that, so I guess he'd been put under surveillance by then and stopped offering people lifts. I had no ideas back then as to suspects, but Claremont had a strange feel to it back then. There were pictures of Jane Rimmer on every lamp post , in all the shop windows along the main strip etc but I still saw pissed girls walking alone every weekend couldn't believe it.

Incidentally, years later I made friends with a bloke next door and hung out with him a few times. His nights consisted of driving around until 4am looking for girls walking alone and slow down to stare at them. He never said hi or offered them a ride, he'd just follow them slowly and stare at them. It made me awkward as hell, and after a few nights of cruising around deserted carparks near the beach, kings park etc I GTF and said I was too busy to go out "for a look around". He was an ordinary, likeable bloke too. Just goes to show that poor MACRO must have had a hell of a time looking into every dude that got put forward as a suspect.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Incidentally, years later I made friends with a bloke next door and hung out with him a few times. His nights consisted of driving around until 4am looking for girls walking alone and slow down to stare at them. He never said hi or offered them a ride, he'd just follow them slowly and stare at them. It made me awkward as hell, and after a few nights of cruising around deserted carparks near the beach, kings park etc I GTF and said I was too busy to go out "for a look around". He was an ordinary, likeable bloke too. Just goes to show that poor MACRO must have had a hell of a time looking into every dude that got put forward as a suspect.

That's really really really creepy. I'd be very uncomfortable if a mate did that.

Is it at all possible that this guy was testing you to see how into you were? Waiting to see if you wanted to go to the next step?

 

[AngelJoan]

Apparently the length from two known bodies are 77.* kms apart, the opposite angle of 347 degs they lie, the line goes through the Claremont hotel.

Pipidinny in WADJUK means to see the breast/s sitting down here.

Ironically, the suburb now is called Trinity. Did someone know this years ago? A cartographer? Someone in the spatial industry?

There is an important item 13kms. An ex defence guy took me there at night. The police now know. Waiting... Waiting...

Your ex defense guy, are you sure he is ex defense? I don't mean does he have a tattoo and some old grainy photo's and his word, but where do you know him from/ did you work with him/ have dealings when he was working in the forces or have you seen actual documentation? (I apologize if my questions seem impertinent or I sound nosy or like I'm trying to make mischief; I actually have good reasons for asking)

 

[perthite]

Gday Perthite,
To be honest, MACRO kept everything extremely close to their chest. I do know that they were under a lot of pressure to find a suspect, from the media and the public. LW approached me many many times over the years to offer me a lift, and when I found out he was their lead suspect it seemed cut and dried to me at the time, but remembering back he didnt seem like he would be capable of it. Having read the BIG FOOTY thread through a couple of times I'm still not convinced it's any of the main suspects. It could be someone completely off the radar, someone who has since died or moved away. There's no reason it has to be Droc's main suspect, the ross/wegers combo or MM.

Cheers for that.

I tend to agree that there best suspect might be someone they haven't named. If the LW saga hadn't gone on so long you could be lead to believe that the whole decoy operation was a decoy to entice the real CSK out. It's hard to give the police that much tactical credit though.

My feeling is that MM is a bit of a red herring - some people have suggested that this bloke has been identified already. You start to wonder what the purpose of the CIA episode actually was. It's realistically too long since the murders for the public to offer any further information you would think.

 

[Deleted member 153673]

That's really really really creepy. I'd be very uncomfortable if a mate did that.

Is it at all possible that this guy was testing you to see how into you were? Waiting to see if you wanted to go to the next step?

He used to like the beaches because you'd get girls jogging super early in the morning and he knew which routes certain women took, where they lived, or where they parked. He was a completely normal bloke otherwise. I lost track of him when he moved out but I often wondered if he ever went any further. Had a friend who got followed several times by a nutter who eventually turned up at her house. Unfortunately it seems like a pretty common thing

 

[Deleted member 153673]

Cheers for that.

I tend to agree that there best suspect might be someone they haven't named. If the LW saga hadn't gone on so long you could be lead to believe that the whole decoy operation was a decoy to entice the real CSK out. It's hard to give the police that much tactical credit though.

I think you're onto something there. It makes sense that if you have a good suspect you don't let him know you're onto him. Make him feel like he's smarter than everyone by publicly focusing on someone else (eg LW.) That way he might begin to feel invincible or get careless because he's so much cleverer than the police. It's all conjecture mind you. It might be more than 1 person (a guy/girl combo) or a group of guys. He may have moved overseas or died or be in prison for something else. WAPOL seemed to have tunnel vision regarding LW so I dunno why they focused so much on MM in the CIA show. All I know is that much smarter people than me will eventually get to the bottom of it. Were you around during that period Perthite? Any memories of what it was like back then living with the threat of a serial killer?