CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #11

[Confusion]

How do we know that Dylan fell asleep after 8pm? That was when communication ceased from his phone, but I've seen nothing specific reported regarding the time Dylan went to bed on Sunday eve.---and I think that's notable, that MR makes a point to mention Dylan's fatigue from Saturday eve, but then jumps to Dylan sleeping in Monday...

It has been said many times, by MSM, that he went to bed when he got back to MR's house. How is anyone supposed to confirm that unless the perp happened to be a peeping tom who grabbed him when MR left in the morning? I don't see that happening, so we just have to accept his word for it (or not if you prefer.)

 

[The Cheese]

Thank you for the clarification, it sounds like the term "kidnapping" is a legal term in this sense. So for example a suspect abducts a victim by use of force, but would be formally charged with felony kidnapping for that crime.

When the phrase "abduction or kidnapping" was used in the article it lead me to think they were making a distinction.

I think police, or at least Bender, is making a distinction between the two. Here's an example of a quote from police that leads me to think that it's two different things to them:

"We've been doing a potential criminal investigation, looking at abduction, kidnapping or foul play. We haven't closed out the possibility he has run away and we're still going door to door. We have an absence of clues. It's a mystery, that's what makes it so frustrating," he said.

http://www.news9.com/story/20216771/sheriffs-dept-missing-colo-boy-didnt-run-away

 

[scorekeeper]

If LE felt this could be a criminal event so soon, by the 2nd day, I am a little surprised they have not spoken out to the community at all, even though I know it is not always done.

Still, if a child is gone and LE believes a crime has occurred, I believe they have some responsibility toward the rest of the citizens. Unless they are fairly certain it was a targeted event and the person was only interested in Dylan; but if that is the case, they should know who their suspect is.

BBM

I totally agree with your post.

And I think LE knows and I think the perp knows that LE knows!!

 

[Abby Normal Again]

So does this take stranger abduction off the table ?

When they say "foul play", what exactly do they mean ?

Foul play, in this sense, is referencing homicide I believe. However, foul play just means someone didn't play by the rules in its most general sense.

Abduction and kidnapping are used interchangeably by many, even people who may know the legal distinctions.

Abduction and homicide are what remain on the table IMO.

I think some of what's being overlooked in the sleeping debate is if Dylan did go to bed early...say 9-9:30ish, he would have had plenty of sleep by Monday morning....at least 9-9 1/2 hours, so shouldn't be so tired if this was his usual wake time per mom.

This has been bothering me, too. But in the sense - WHY in the world would MR make that series of events up unless it was true? Anyone in their right mind who was making up the story would say he spent all night watching TV and *I* went to bed early, then follow with said person not wanting to wake up in the morning.

Who would make up the story that said person went to bed early AND wouldn't wake up in the morning? Seems counter-intuitive to make that up. :waitasec:

 

[DylansMom34]

I think police, or at least Bender, is making a distinction between the two. Here's an example of a quote from police that leads me to think that it's two different things to them:

"We've been doing a potential criminal investigation, looking at abduction, kidnapping or foul play. We haven't closed out the possibility he has run away and we're still going door to door. We have an absence of clues. It's a mystery, that's what makes it so frustrating," he said.

http://www.news9.com/story/20216771/sheriffs-dept-missing-colo-boy-didnt-run-away

Yes, but isn't this quote from Bender from a couple of weeks ago? I'm fairly certain they have since ruled out any possibility that includes a run away scenario....

 

[Confusion]

Yes, but isn't this quote from Bender from a couple of weeks ago? I'm fairly certain they have since ruled out any possibility that includes a run away scenario....

That article is date 11/29, so it's been about a week.

 

[Powergirl]

It has been said many times, by MSM, that he went to bed when he got back to MR's house. How is anyone supposed to confirm that unless the perp happened to be a peeping tom who grabbed him when MR left in the morning? I don't see that happening, so we just have to accept his word for it (or not if you prefer.)

But that's exactly what I'm pointing out...MR did not say that, not anywhere that I've seen anyway. Could you point me to one quote where MR specifically refers to Dylan going to bed early (or not) on Sunday night?

 

[YidArmyRach]

I think some of what's being overlooked in the sleeping debate is if Dylan did go to bed early...say 9-9:30ish, he would have had plenty of sleep by Monday morning....at least 9-9 1/2 hours, so shouldn't be so tired if this was his usual wake time per mom.

I wouldn't describe 9 1/2 hours of sleep as plenty if he had been up previously for 20 hours.

To be honest, I don't think 9 1/2 hours sleep is "plenty" for a 13 year old anyway. I'd say 10 hours sleep is the minimum I'd expect my 13 year old to have after a just regular day.

Dylan stays up until 4:00 am Sun. morning - assuming he got up around 8.00am Saturday, that's 20 hours before he goes to bed. How much sleep does he get between then and leaving for the airport? It can't be much. Add to that a busy and tiring day of hanging round an airport, flight and then errands with dad, he is going to be exhausted by the time he gets to Dad's. I would need well more than 9 1/2 sleep after all that.

I really don't find anything strange about the timings that dad is giving.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

Since they are saying kidnapping, abduction or foul play, I assume they mean murder. I thought kidnapping and/or abduction are also quite foul, as in "foul play" but they seem to separate the terms. I think they are avoiding the terms "murder" or "homicide".

What I am still baffled about is how they so quickly decided (by 2nd day or so, an above quote indicates) that this could NOT be a runaway, or a lost child in the wilderness. LE took almost 10 days before calling Kyron's case a criminal one and searched bushes etc. for days. Is it all about him not using his phone? That seems thin to me, if so.

I know it has been hashed over ad nauseum, but it IS at least possible he awoke to a completely useless/dead phone and did not think to try a landline. Why are they so sure?

I understand not releasing information, but I also would love to know how they determined that. When I was a child I went for a walk in the woods- I wasn't a country kid, but we were living in the country at the time. I fell and hit my head hard enough to get spooked and I got up and started running for home IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. I was 12, and I ran in these woods a lot. I should have known, but the added element of being disoriented threw me off. Someone found me once I got to another area of non-wooded residential homes and got me back home. But had that person not been honest, I'd have been SOL.

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to trust them on this. They have experts galore, and I'm just a random person. I'm just curious what clues can possibly say "nope, no a random accident, child didn't get lost" without also giving them more clues? I know if you find cleaned up blood you can safely say no accident, but then you also have a pretty clear POI or two assuming victim doesn't live alone.

 

[DylansMom34]

Okay, well still, they have ruled out Dylan being a run away.


http://durangoherald.com/article/20...2/Dylan-Redwine-did-not-run-away-police-say--

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22083134/dylan-redwine-boy-missing-near-vallecito-did-not

 

[Confusion]

Foul play, in this sense, is referencing homicide I believe. However, foul play just means someone didn't play by the rules in its most general sense.

Abduction and kidnapping are used interchangeably by many, even people who may know the legal distinctions.

Abduction and homicide are what remain on the table IMO.

This has been bothering me, too. But in the sense - WHY in the world would MR make that series of events up unless it was true? Anyone in their right mind who was making up the story would say he spent all night watching TV and *I* went to bed early, then follow with said person not wanting to wake up in the morning.

Who would make up the story that said person went to bed early AND wouldn't wake up in the morning? Seems counter-intuitive to make that up. :waitasec:

Maybe I'm just not very creative, but IF I were going to do that, I think I'd be more inclined to say I went to bed early and he was gone when I woke up. Since ER was stating in the beginning that he didn't want to go.

About the abduction/kidnapping thing, my understanding of it is that it's considered kidnapping if you hold someone against his/her will, and it's considered abduction if you remove them from where they are against their will. I think in most cases it's both - a person is abducted (taken somewhere else) and then kidnapped (not allowed to leave.) MOO

 

[katydid23]

I might be losing my mind. I was certain that dad said that when he and Dylan got home, that Dylan was tired and they both went to sleep early. I've searched every way I can think of, but I'm not finding it.

Did he say it or just intimate it? Or not say it at all?

The family friend, Hesse, said that on NG. She said that dad told her that Dylan went right to bed when they got home.

 

[absentia]

I haven't been able to read all the posts - this may have been covered. Mom said she passed poly. Has dad said the same or is he not saying what his results were?

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...dylan-redwine-reportedly-took-polygraph-tests

 

[Confusion]

But that's exactly what I'm pointing out...MR did not say that, not anywhere that I've seen anyway. Could you point me to one quote where MR specifically refers to Dylan going to bed early (or not) on Sunday night?

I can try to look, but between my double vision, cataracts, broken glasses and sinus headache, reading isn't as easy as it could be. I'll post a link when I find one.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

I agree that Dylan is not a runaway. Even if he left with those intentions (which I don't have any reason to believe) he is not hiding from everyone as a runaway at all IMO. Like I said earlier, he may be a teen- but he's a YOUNG teen. And his home life did not seem to force him to grow up beyond his years. He'd have made contact or come home by now if he'd simply run away.

 

[ginnylover]

My son didn't like going to his father's house as it was the opposite side of town--far from friends. At home, he was up early. At dad's he slept in, took naps, etc.

Weird mom says he would get up early and dad says opposite. Could be nothing.

 

[absentia]

yes, this is exactly my point. they MUST have info pointing to foul play if they can rule out that he ran away. there is no ay to rule out a runaway unless there is some other info pointing elsewhere.

I understand not releasing information, but I also would love to know how they determined that. When I was a child I went for a walk in the woods- I wasn't a country kid, but we were living in the country at the time. I fell and hit my head hard enough to get spooked and I got up and started running for home IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. I was 12, and I ran in these woods a lot. I should have known, but the added element of being disoriented threw me off. Someone found me once I got to another area of non-wooded residential homes and got me back home. But had that person not been honest, I'd have been SOL.

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to trust them on this. They have experts galore, and I'm just a random person. I'm just curious what clues can possibly say "nope, no a random accident, child didn't get lost" without also giving them more clues? I know if you find cleaned up blood you can safely say no accident, but then you also have a pretty clear POI or two assuming victim doesn't live alone.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

Maybe I'm just not very creative, but IF I were going to do that, I think I'd be more inclined to say I went to bed early and he was gone when I woke up. Since ER was stating in the beginning that he didn't want to go.

About the abduction/kidnapping thing, my understanding of it is that it's considered kidnapping if you hold someone against his/her will, and it's considered abduction if you remove them from where they are against their will. I think in most cases it's both - a person is abducted (taken somewhere else) and then kidnapped (not allowed to leave.) MOO

That would be a more likely explanation course of events, that's what most people would think of I think.

I was just trying to align it to what was said, with the assumption that he'd want his errands to be his alibi. Because otherwise he should have been concerned at 7 or whatever time. Just because it's more alarming/unlikely for a child to set off on their own when it's still dark outside.

 

[kkdj]

I agree that Dylan is not a runaway. Even if he left with those intentions (which I don't have any reason to believe) he is not hiding from everyone as a runaway at all IMO. Like I said earlier, he may be a teen- but he's a YOUNG teen. And his home life did not seem to force him to grow up beyond his years. He'd have made contact or come home by now if he'd simply run away.

I do not think he is a runaway either.
LE is calling this a criminal investigation.
Here's my biggest question. Did Dylan and his phone make it to dads? Where were the last pings from his phone?

 

[ginnylover]

Oh, and mom isn't always right about what her son will or will not do. Kids surprise you and they aren't always consistent or reliable.