CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #40

[song22]

I totally understand folks who aren't willing to ever accuse a person without concrete evidence, no matter how dysfunctional or disturbed he may seem. I totally get that and respect it. It's true that mobs can be incredibly irrational and destructive and wrong. I don't think that that is what is happening in this case--but I understand why someone would draw a line in the sand with "concrete evidence only". Of course, I believe that is how our courts and laws should operate especially.

I also have no problem with alternative theories of what may have happened to Dylan--abduction and accident do seem possible. I find these unlikely, but definitely possible.

I can't understand anyone calling EH or CR out on their anger (completely justifiable anger) or people feeling sorry or defending MR's behavior.

 

[SuperMom1995]

I'm starting to have some major concerns that EVERYTHING is inconclusive WRT LaPlata LE. Troubling to say the least. :waitasec:

I am only mid way through this thread so don't know what else has been found out but I think that there definitely is a body there and that LE is minimizing the situation for a few reasons: 1) they don't want MR to run off; 2) they don't want the family and other masses hysterical and it turn out that it really is a homeless person. You can bet it really is a body but I have felt all along that LE has their reasons for playing things the way they have. Surely the ice can be cut. They cut the holes out didn't they?

 

[Redux]

As an alcoholic (full disclosure - haven't drank in 8 years), I'll give my take on the drinking and the subsequent poly. Granted, this is me, not him, and I don't even know if he's an alcoholic, just saying...

The night before, I might not be able to keep myself from drinking. I'd berate myself for doing so, knowing that I was being the biggest failure in the world when my child needed me the most, but alcoholism is basically a compulsion to not feel, to escape, so I'd drink to not feel the pain. As others have mentioned, alcoholics don't just drink a little, they drink to make sure that buzz goes all evening, to the point of falling asleep, passing out, or blacking out. IF he's an alcoholic, he didn't just drink a half a pint. He probably wouldn't have been able to stop that compulsion once he started drinking.

BUT (here's the big but), IF I knew I was innocent, I'd make it to the polygraph come hell or high water, and I would take it, even if it meant lying about how I felt or whether I was hungover.

Again, totally just what I would do. By lying about how I felt, I might shoot myself in the foot with the polygraph results, but nothing would keep me from taking that poly.

All totally MOO and what I would do; I don't expect anyone else to think or act like me (Thank God!). :moo:

 

[cluciano63]

I totally understand folks who aren't willing to ever accuse a person without concrete evidence, no matter how dysfunctional or disturbed he may seem. I totally get that and respect it. It's true that mobs can be incredibly irrational and destructive and wrong. I don't think that that is what is happening in this case--but I understand why someone would draw a line in the sand with "concrete evidence only". Of course, I believe that is how our courts and laws should operate especially.

I also have no problem with alternative theories of what may have happened to Dylan--abduction and accident do seem possible. I find these unlikely, but definitely possible.

I can't understand anyone calling EH or CR out on their anger (completely justifiable anger) or people feeling sorry or defending MR's behavior.

While I agree that "concrete evidence" is lacking, it often is, in murder cases that are comprised entirely of circumstantial evidence, yet we see those cases all the time. Very few murders have a witness or a true "smoking gun". So it is entirely possible that if a case is ever brought against MR, it will be one based on circumstantial evidence, and the outcome may not reveal what really happened to Dylan, or where he is, even if a conviction is obtained.

 

[TxLady2]

Actaully DP said his training is in forensic psychology. IDK that he ever says i AM a psychologist. He's probably gotten pretty crafty at how he dresses himself up to avoid calling himself what he is.
As for the second point, I agree it was handled pretty badly by DP, but I would say in retrospect, DP may not have known exactly what kind of person he was dealing with until after MR showed his cards, so to speak. At that point DP might have thought ' if i knew yesterday what I know today about him, i would have approached differently.' See I think most people in a divorce setting will probably make outlandish claims about their x. I hear it all the time just from friends. " he's the craziest man i ever met... soemthing is really wrong with his brain... i think he may be a psycho' etc. Then you find out they just are having an equal battle and calling each other names. Point is whenever ER made her statements to the dr phil show prior to taping, it probably seemed like that ..just a woman bashing her x. Then once they meet MR , they see maybe he is a man with issues. I'm just guessing here. mooooooo

Very good points, and I agree. I'm not a psychologist and I don't play one on t.v. but I had even put a lot of this down to two people who couldn't get along and were just sniping on each other.
To me, it doesn't matter whether Dr. Phil is not a licensed psychologist anymore. Just because you lose your license doesn't mean you forget what you've learned from training and experience. I gave up my cosmetology license years ago, but I've retained a lot of what I was taught and learned from the years I did work at it. Some things you don't ever forget.
I'm sure he did his homework before the taping. He probably watched all the interviews and had a pretty good feel for what he would be dealing with. But in most of those, Mark was not pressured, he was relaxed, so DP got to see him in a whole different light once he was on the stage. So did I and so did a lot of people. That can change one's perspective a great deal.

 

[RANCH]

While I agree that "concrete evidence" is lacking, it often is, in murder cases that are comprised entirely of circumstantial evidence, yet we see those cases all the time. Very few murders have a witness or a true "smoking gun". So it is entirely possible that if a case is ever brought against MR, it will be one based on circumstantial evidence, and the outcome may not reveal what really happened to Dylan, or where he is, even if a conviction is obtained.

I actually prefer circumstantial evidence over direct evidence in most cases. IMO.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Like Dr. Phil said, if MR didn't do anything to Dylan, then there is something very wrong with MR-because of how he behaves. Why didn't he take a lie detector test offered by Dr. Phil to clear himself if he is in fact innocent?

Just jumping off your post, and no disrespect meant, but I sometimes think that people forget that "lie detector tests" are not some form of magic which produce the absolute truth.

They are merely a tool which is "designed to detect and record changes in physiological characteristics" and can be manipulated.

Also, imagine if MR had perhaps slapped Dylan on the Sunday night, but was totally innocent with regards to his disappearance. Then the question "did you hurt Dylan" could be answered "yes" and everyone would think him guilty of murder, or answered "no" and be classed as a lie ... and everyone would think him guilty of murder! Depending on what questions are asked, I imagine an incorrect conclusion could easily be arrived at.

If I was completely innocent of something I'd been accused of, I'm not sure I'd want to take one to be honest.

 

[Redux]

I wonder what the likelihood is of MR having done something but that he totally blocked it out? Not like a drinking blackout, but more like he accidentally did something to Dylan and then blocked it out because he couldn't face what he did.

Of course if that were the case, I guess he would eagerly take the polygraph because he would think that he hadn't done anything wrong, having blocked it from his memory.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Magdalyn]

Since I've never ever texted, have a question

Is it possible that Dylan wrote a text, then IF phone disabled or whatever, text never made it to recipient, but was later found on Dylan's phone records

Other option, friend that rec'd it, just hasn't chosen to go public

LE obviously know about it

If you type in a text but never press 'send', there will be no phone company record of it. It's just sitting on your device. If the phone is suddenly disabled before your press send, the phone will either save the unsent text as a draft (saved on your phone but not at the phone company) or dump the text like it never happened.

If you typed a text and pressed send, nothing you can do will unsend it. It should be on record with your phone company (if not the actual content of text, the fact that one text was sent at what time). It's like email once you press send. Can't stop the route.

Sometimes the recipient will not receive the text, or will receive it late, but the sender always leaves a trail. (And this just happens, sometimes texts get lost on their way. Not often, but it has nothing to do with a battery dying or a phone being disabled. Just a rare glitch.)

Once 'send' is pressed, no matter what happens to the phone afterward, the text released into to 'atmosphere', lol, if you know what I mean.

At least that's my experience with all the phones I've had.

Hope that helps! :seeya:

Now on your other option, if the friend received it, then the police know exactly who received it because they'd have-- if not the wording of the actual text-- the phone number of the recipient. And of course the friend might not choose to go public, but the police know who received the last text. If it's a juvenile, then LE would likely not release the name anyway. Moo and all that jazz!

 

[TxLady2]

He looked fine on that limo ride that morning to go take the poly.
He looked ok

what happend from that ride to him sitting there looking like crap?
all of a sudden his hair is all messed up hes rubbing his face his eyes are bloodshot. I mean really.


then all of a sudden after he bailed on taking that poly he cleaned up nicely? Hes all dressed and ready to go again!
Plays with his tie

Its all an act!


JMO

No, that limo ride was the same day as the taping, after he first agreed to take one. Then he backed out and said his blood pressure was sky high, so they agreed to do it the next morning after he had slept. Then the next morning was when he walked in with a hangover and admitted he had drank the night before. He again backed out and got cleaned up, and later they gave him the 3rd chance and he still refused. I really think he was set to reappear on stage that day, after the poly, but for some reason after he refused, they didn't bring him back on.

 

[Redux]

OT, but YidArmyRanch, I love your avatar. It gives me a smile every time I see it.

 

[cluciano63]

IMO, MR might have done better to tell DP at the start that after his LE polygraph, he does not have any faith in polygraphs and would not take another, than to handle it the way he did. Lots of people apparently do not have any faith in them (though I do) so that may have been less shocking than his seeming to avoid it at all costs after agreeing. And if not for his demeanor toward ER and obsession with trying to pin it or her, or at least make her out to be a bad mother, bad person, etc. he may have managed to come across as sincere even if he did not wish to take a polygraph.

But his overall presentation, remarks, actions and expressions worked against him in every possible way, IMO, so that finally not taking the test was icing on cake.

 

[TheDuchess]

On this A Boy's Life article by the Durango Herald. Scroll down and look in the left margin you'll see a section that starts with "The following is a text exchange between RN and Dylan Redwine that starts early afternoon Nov. 18 with the two swapping banter about their prowess with females."

The 9:37 text was revealed in a press release from the sheriff's office and has not been made public - who it was to/from, what it said.

Sorry about that!
http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20121215/NEWS01/121219687/A-boy’s-life--

WOW!! Thanks so much for sharing this with me! I had no idea the extent to which he planned on going over to his friend's grandmother's house. He actually went so far as to text to say he would call all day if the friend wasn't home. He REALLY wanted to get out of that house! This just firms up even more suspicion to me against MR. He obviously did NOT want Dylan to hang out with his friend. Now I really want to know what that last text said and to whom. I wonder if it was MR seeing the texts and knowing the plans and realizing that the grandma's was too far away to believe that Dylan would try to walk there so he texted something to a closer friend, i.e. T, who one might believe was a close enough walk.

I do NOT believe that Dylan wouldn't wake up that morning. He REALLY wanted to go and his dad could have dropped him off. Once he woke up, he would have definitely called his friend or texted him back on all of those texts of "where are you??"

Here is what I believe happened:

On the way home, Dyland asked to go hang out with his friend. Mark said no-he wanted to spend time with Dylan that evening. Dylan was upset about it, but accepted it and made plans for the next morning. He asked his dad to give him a ride the next morning and dad said no way-you're here to spend time with me. An argument ensued in the car and perhaps Dylan got out of the car with his backpack and MR went after him. They argued, it turned violent and Mark killed him. Perhaps accidentally. He freaked out, hid the body in the lake and before doing so, sent a text to try to throw off the fact that Dylan changed his plans for the next morning.

I believe Mark disposed of Dylan's body, his backpack (as it may have had evidence) and his phone. He went home that evening and probably drank a lot. He devised his story during this time. The next morning he ran his errands as scheduled. He decided to go back home and take a nap, as it was going to be a long night. After his quick and much needed rest, he woke to an "empty" house and started making the calls.

Questions:
1.) Does Mark say that he knew of Dylan's plans or anything about his refusal to let Dylan hang with his friend that night? Does he acknowledge knowing that Dylan had a 6:30 a.m. time scheduled with his buddy the next day?
2.) How did Dylan intend to get to his friend's house at 6:30 a.m. the next morning? Had he worked that out with Mark? Does Mark say he agreed to this?
3.) Doesn't Dylan own a bike at his dad's house?
4.) Did his friend try calling Dylan throughout the day wondering where he was in addition to the texts?

 

[song22]

I actually prefer circumstantial evidence over direct evidence in most cases. IMO.

Why? I'm not sure what you mean?

 

[TxLady2]

Like Dr. Phil said, if MR didn't do anything to Dylan, then there is something very wrong with MR-because of how he behaves. Why didn't he take a lie detector test offered by Dr. Phil to clear himself if he is in fact innocent?

I know, it's strange. My guess is he was afraid of the results.

But I was responding to some things another poster was saying regarding the phone and Dylan possibly taking off down the road, that it's possible some of them could be explained. I wasn't addressing Mark's refusal to take the test at all in this post. Sorry!

 

[Seek&Find]

His mother said that it as an old flip phone.

SBM

Mom never said it was old. That's been assumed and stated incorrectly multiple times, so it's taken on a life of its own. Here's her statement:

It was just a little flip phone.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/03/ng.01.html

Moo

 

[Confusion]

You dont need the phone for it to ping. If its pinging the battery is still good.
It would be interesting to know when it stopped.

If the battery is good and the phone is turned on pinging can be done. Without the phone, there's no way to know if the phone is broken, the battery is dead, the phone isn't in range of a tower, or it's just turned off pinging doesn't work. MOO

Very good points, and I agree. I'm not a psychologist and I don't play one on t.v. but I had even put a lot of this down to two people who couldn't get along and were just sniping on each other.
To me, it doesn't matter whether Dr. Phil is not a licensed psychologist anymore. Just because you lose your license doesn't mean you forget what you've learned from training and experience. I gave up my cosmetology license years ago, but I've retained a lot of what I was taught and learned from the years I did work at it. Some things you don't ever forget.
I'm sure he did his homework before the taping. He probably watched all the interviews and had a pretty good feel for what he would be dealing with. But in most of those, Mark was not pressured, he was relaxed, so DP got to see him in a whole different light once he was on the stage. So did I and so did a lot of people. That can change one's perspective a great deal.

BBM

I wish everybody believed that, but I was told not too long ago that the fact that I'm no longer working/licensed means that I apparently forgot everything I once knew in my field. People here may sometimes think I've forgotten a lot of other things too, like how to be tactful & humble and how to type, but I never did know those things. I do still remember the 4 C's of tech writing I was taught, but I don't use them much anymore! (Be Clear, Concise, Complete & Correct) MOO

 

[LaLilith]

I am hopelessly behind with no chance of catching up.

I fell off the fence and now firmly believe MR is involved in his son's disappearance. I don't believe Dylan is alive, as much as that breaks my heart to type. The only thing I am unsure of is whether whatever happened was intentional or unintentional. :moo: All moo.

Thank you all for the flow of information even if I can't keep up, I appreciate it.

 

[TxLady2]

IMO, MR might have done better to tell DP at the start that after his LE polygraph, he does not have any faith in polygraphs and would not take another, than to handle it the way he did. Lots of people apparently do not have any faith in them (though I do) so that may have been less shocking than his seeming to avoid it at all costs after agreeing. And if not for his demeanor toward ER and obsession with trying to pin it or her, or at least make her out to be a bad mother, bad person, etc. he may have managed to come across as sincere even if he did not wish to take a polygraph.

But his overall presentation, remarks, actions and expressions worked against him in every possible way, IMO, so that finally not taking the test was icing on cake.

Very true, I agree.
I have a lot of faith in polygraphs, and I know that they're a good tool for LE but I know they are not reliabe 100% of the time. I do believe that guilty people have passed them, and innocent people have failed them, but I don't think that's all that common. I've heard that a lot of it depends on the polygrapher and what questions they ask as well as how well they analyze the results. They may have improved considerably over the years, too.
Mark's refusal to take it really shocked me. I don't know if I would have had the nerve to refuse it, if my child was missing. He has really made himself look bad by how he responded. I don't call polys the be-all-end-all by any means but if I was in his situation, and they asked me to bungee jump off the Empire State Building, I would have done it, and I am terrified of heights! The point is, he should not have agreed at first... he knew he wasn't going to end up taking it. He just really messed up!

 

[song22]

Questions:
1.) Does Mark say that he knew of Dylan's plans or anything about his refusal to let Dylan hang with his friend that night? Does he acknowledge knowing that Dylan had a 6:30 a.m. time scheduled with his buddy the next day?
2.) How did Dylan intend to get to his friend's house at 6:30 a.m. the next morning? Had he worked that out with Mark? Does Mark say he agreed to this?
3.) Doesn't Dylan own a bike at his dad's house?
4.) Did his friend try calling Dylan throughout the day wondering where he was in addition to the texts?

Have you seen the uncut interviews with MR? Yes, He talks over and over again about how important DR's friends were to him. He repeats it too much, IMO, and other people think it does sound like this was a sensitive, sore point and they probably did fight about it. MR also says Dylan made plans to meet R in the morning, but MR couldn't wake DR up. MR was going to take him.

I don't know the answers to your other questions. I know R texted throughout the day, but I don't know about called.