CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #41

[sarx]

sarx, I really really appreciate your help! It's so confusing when you don't understand these things but it's so important.

Hopefully I was able to help a little. Happy to help whenever I can. There is so much misinformation out there that whenever I can help people understand better I am happy to do so!

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Well she talked about cutting holes in the ice then moving east and the one dog started hitting and scratching the ice. Still 5 branch campground is a ways up from the dam but not near as far as the extreme northern end.

 

[Seek&Find]

Denise Hess, Elaine's best friend and admin of FMDR, was present at the searches and said it's the same areas, per FB posts and articles. IMO, she's in a position to know both the area well, and what's occurred in the searches. (Btw Katt, you rock! What an excellent friend and tireless advocate! :rocker

Moo

As always, SARX, you're such a cherished asset! Thanks for all you do! :hug:

 

[Ghostwheel]

I feel like I've asked before, but I don't remember the answer. I know the flow at the dam was really low back in October, what were the flows coming into the lake like?

For a one month period starting on November 18, 2012, approximately 22 to 120 CFS. The 120 was an unusual spike on December 14-mostly it was between 35 and 55.

 

[TxLady2]

I would guess that the LE, CBI and FBI have a pretty good bit of info. They are just keeping it close.. I wished I knew why! WS minds want to know.

I can tell you some of the reasons. If he is their prime suspect, they don't want him to know everything they have in the way of evidence, until they're ready to make an arrest. The DA is calling the shots at this point, and has to make that decision, it's not up to anyone else. Once he's arrested the clock starts ticking. He gets a lawyer and he doesn't have to talk. They prefer that he keeps on communicating with them right now, because that gives them more chances to find out what happened.
No DA in his right mind is going to call for an arrest until they know they have enough to convict someone. Right now, they are not even sure what happened to Dylan, there's no proof he is dead, much less how he got that way. Almost every LE agency in the country works this way, they won't reveal their hand to the public until they have to, because that is their right and because we are not entitled to know everything they do right now.

 

[missrugby]

Migraine!! In the words of Jodi Arias this is "making my brain scramble"

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

According to K9 Forensics of Edgewood, a group that volunteered to help search for the missing 14-year-old, two cadaver dogs picked up a scent in the same place after holes were punched in frozen Vallecito Lake, which has been a focal point of the three-month search.

I believe she is talking about HER two dogs here. And the rest of the article just said they cut holes in the 'same area' where dogs hit back in November. It doesn't say specifically where her two dogs hit though does it?

She later talked about the dogs getting hits at the 5 rivers area and I don't know where that is Some were saying it was the extreme northern side. Some saying it's near 5 branch campground.

I remain confused

 

[sarx]

Well she talked about cutting holes in the ice then moving east and the one dog started hitting and scratching the ice. Still 5 branch campground is a ways up from the dam but not near as far as the extreme northern end.

Can you point me to what article talks about the dog scratching at the ice? It is very unusual for an HRD dog to have an "active" alert (scratching, jumping, digging, etc). Generally these dogs have a "passive" alert (sit, down, stand and hold, etc) so as not to potentially destroy anything.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Denise Hess, Elaine's best friend and admin of FMDR, was present at the searches and said it's the same areas, per FB posts and articles. IMO, she's in a position to know both the area well, and what's occurred in the searches. (Btw Katt, you rock! What an excellent friend and tireless advocate! :rocker

Moo

As always, SARX, you're such a cherished asset! Thanks for all you do! :hug:

I understand. I just don't understand the meaning of 'same area'. Does that mean Vallecito lake or does that mean at the dam?

 

[sarx]

Thanks Ghostwheel for the flow info.

 

[MrsPC]

Can you point me to what article talks about the dog scratching at the ice? It is very unusual for an HRD dog to have an "active" alert (scratching, jumping, digging, etc). Generally these dogs have a "passive" alert (sit, down, stand and hold, etc) so as not to potentially destroy anything.

here's one article

http://www.jocosarblog.org/jocosarblog/

sabre picked up on a scent on the east side of vallecito lake despite all the snow and ice. Sabre absolutely went crazy there, he had bark alerts in the water, he was scratching at the ice through the snow there. kessinger says sabre is specifically trained to ignore animal remains - and to only look for human scents

 

[Seek&Find]

Can you point me to what article talks about the dog scratching at the ice? It is very unusual for an HRD dog to have an "active" alert (scratching, jumping, digging, etc). Generally these dogs have a "passive" alert (sit, down, stand and hold, etc) so as not to potentially destroy anything.

Earlier this week Sabre picked up on a scent on the east side of Vallecito lake despite all the snow and ice.

"Sabre absolutely went crazy there, he had bark alerts in the water, he was scratching at the ice through the snow there," she said.

Kessinger says Sabre is specifically trained to ignore animal remains and to only look for human scents.

"There is something there, we can't be positive that it is Dylan but there is somebody there," said Kessinger.

link

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

here's one article

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/4410/3961125?title=pets_and_animals

sabre picked up on a scent on the east side of vallecito lake despite all the snow and ice. Sabre absolutely went crazy there, he had bark alerts in the water, he was scratching at the ice through the snow there. kessinger says sabre is specifically trained to ignore animal remains - and to only look for human scents

Thank you thank you! It would have taken me hours to find it.

 

[RANCH]

Yes, depends on the circumstances and the dog, but the source would not be miles away by any stretch. Again, I'm really not sure what the ice would do, but under normal open water, the gases they are smelling dissipate pretty quickly once they surface, so you have to be relatively close to hit it. This is why you see the pix of the boats working slowly and methodically in a pattern.

Thanks for helping us out Sarx. I think that it's important to know that these working dogs have amazing abilities but they are sometimes limited by their human handlers.

So what they tell us may be influenced by ourselves and we need to take that into consideration. But that doesn't mean we should disregard what they have to offer. MOO

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Can you point me to what article talks about the dog scratching at the ice? It is very unusual for an HRD dog to have an "active" alert (scratching, jumping, digging, etc). Generally these dogs have a "passive" alert (sit, down, stand and hold, etc) so as not to potentially destroy anything.

So are you going to tell us these dogs aren't properly trained then? Please don't say that

 

[Seek&Find]

I understand. I just don't understand the meaning of 'same area'. Does that mean Vallecito lake or does that mean at the dam?

Given that the links say "in the same area that the earlier search and rescue cadaver dogs had hit on a few days after Redwine went missing", I don't think it just means the same lake.

Not sure how accurate the reporting was on earlier hits/dives. One article said the depth of the dives was 40', for example. That doesn't appear to match a location near the dam, or the max depth of the lake...??

 

[NC Analyzer]

I can tell you some of the reasons. If he is their prime suspect, they don't want him to know everything they have in the way of evidence, until they're ready to make an arrest. The DA is calling the shots at this point, and has to make that decision, it's not up to anyone else. Once he's arrested the clock starts ticking. He gets a lawyer and he doesn't have to talk. They prefer that he keeps on communicating with them right now, because that gives them more chances to find out what happened.
No DA in his right mind is going to call for an arrest until they know they have enough to convict someone. Right now, they are not even sure what happened to Dylan, there's no proof he is dead, much less how he got that way. Almost every LE agency in the country works this way, they won't reveal their hand to the public until they have to, because that is their right and because we are not entitled to know everything they do right now.

Absolutely agree with you, TX. And I don't know if you read my post on the last thread, but I am now looking at this as a particular strategy by BAU profilers in an effort to keep their number one POI, off balance. Mimicking his behavior, discounting "clues" he has provided (fishing pole), minimizing, discrediting and spinning circles...pretty much the same way he appears to behave. I can see this as a strong possibility...now whether it works or not remains to be seen.

 

[Flutterflies]

Sarx … Are there credentialing procedures in place for K9SAR? certification? specific training programs? tia

 

[MrsPC]

a little off topic but on the polygraph comments MR made on the DP show about the La Plata polygrapher not being qualified (or something along those lines)..I was glad to see that Bender knocked that little "diddy" down.



Sheriff's Office spokesman Dan Bender said the officials who administer polygraph tests for the county were certified, trained and experienced.


http://www.durangoherald.com/articl...29657&template=mobileart#sthash.ataXAqMZ.dpuf

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I am now also confused because I thought somewhere in earlier articles it was stated at the most northern end of the lake on the east side where the rivers flow in.

But who knows where I got that from as everything is starting to melt together in my brain from so many different sources. Maybe I need to check Wendy's FB page.