CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #41

[Psychic Sleuth]

I am now also confused because I thought somewhere in earlier articles it was stated at the most northern end of the lake on the east side where the rivers flow in.

But who knows where I got that from as everything is starting to melt together in my brain from so many different sources. Maybe I need to check Wendy's FB page.

If you figure it out please share!

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

a little off topic but on the polygraph comments MR made on the DP show about the La Plata polygrapher not being qualified (or something along those lines)..I was glad to see that Bender knocked that little "diddy" down.



Sheriff's Office spokesman Dan Bender said the officials who administer polygraph tests for the county were certified, trained and experienced.


http://www.durangoherald.com/articl...29657&template=mobileart#sthash.ataXAqMZ.dpuf

I would have loved to have seen Bender's reaction when he saw MR say that on the show!

 

[sarx]

Sarx … Are there credentialing procedures in place for K9SAR? certification? specific training programs? tia

Yes, there are. FEMA certs would be considered the creme of the crop. Then there are multiple levels of certification through NASAR (North American Search and Rescue) which would be the industry standard, there is NAPWDA (North American Police Working Dog Association) and then there are literally hundreds of other groups who have gone off and created their own certifications, not all are created equal. Then there are those who have no certifications at all.

 

[Abstar80]

This is a little off track here but I just wanted to say this.

When doing a puzzle with my little one I say to her "Just because it looks like a piece fits, doesn't mean it does. You have to put it together with all the other pieces, because if you try to force it you will get stuck"

I guess the reason I bring this up is because it concerns me that it is too easy to pigeonhole something just because it looks like it fits.

Tunnel Vision is extremely easy to have in situations like this and while I believe that LE is 100% above board and working to the best of their ability I do acknowledge that they are only human. The parents of Sheena Morris can attest to this without a doubt.

I believe that MR is an individual who does not fit into the normal thread of society. Do I believe that he could harm his son? I cannot answer that because I do not know him personally or his background other than what has been portrayed through the media.

AZgrandma I understand that you have lived with this man and I am in no way trying to discount your experiences with him or disrespect the input you have had into giving some insight into MR. Please accept that with the sincerity it is intended with.

I worry that because of the intense attention placed on MR, right or wrong, it has taken the focus off other possibilities.

Again as stated before I am not defending MR and if he is guilty than I will happily eat my words. What I am defending is an individuals right to innocent until proven guilty. I know everyone's hearts and minds are set on finding Dylan, but I wonder if anyone has given any thought to the affect the <modsnip> blaming is having on MR if indeed he is just a man who has a missing child.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Yes, there are. FEMA certs would be considered the creme of the crop. Then there are multiple levels of certification through NASAR (North American Search and Rescue) which would be the industry standard, there is NAPWDA (North American Police Working Dog Association) and then there are literally hundreds of other groups who have gone off and created their own certifications, not all are created equal. Then there are those who have no certifications at all.

And do we know what credentials Wendy has if any?

 

[KateNY]

all right

some of you that 'get this', go in the smokey back room, figure this map/location/dog hit stuff all out

and bring a report back for us that are

 

[Confusion]

I don't know why it still surprises me that so many of us seem to interpret information so differently, but it does. When I read that the dogs had hit in the same spots, I thought it meant the spots that they got hits the first time they went out, a week or two earlier. I was also wondering if having people other than the handlers playing with the dogs and walking with them during their search would have any effect on the results? I've been curious because of all of the pictures I've seen with Katt and Mike out there with the dogs (more than I've seen of their handlers with them). MOO

 

[RANCH]

a little off topic but on the polygraph comments MR made on the DP show about the La Plata polygrapher not being qualified (or something along those lines)..I was glad to see that Bender knocked that little "diddy" down.



Sheriff's Office spokesman Dan Bender said the officials who administer polygraph tests for the county were certified, trained and experienced.


http://www.durangoherald.com/articl...29657&template=mobileart#sthash.ataXAqMZ.dpuf

Bender was probably correct in saying that the La Plata polygrapher was certified, but he missed his mark with the dead deer and elk comment.

MOO.

 

[sarx]

And do we know what credentials Wendy has if any?

I've been trying to find this info. for awhile. As near as I can tell they are not certified thru any of the ones I mentioned. They are not on the New Mexico approved SAR list. There is an article where she says she is certified in Florida, but it does not say through who or for what. Right now I'm trying to weed through the news reports from the Salle case that they worked to try and find more info. on the subject.

 

[sarx]

I don't know why it still surprises me that so many of us seem to interpret information so differently, but it does. When I read that the dogs had hit in the same spots, I thought it meant the spots that they got hits the first time they went out, a week or two earlier. I was also wondering if having people other than the handlers playing with the dogs and walking with them during their search would have any effect on the results? I've been curious because of all of the pictures I've seen with Katt and Mike out there with the dogs (more than I've seen of their handlers with them). MOO

Again, depends on how they're trained. (Sorry, I know y'all hear that alot, but it really is a crucial factor on so many levels). Generally speaking though, no, it shouldn't make a difference.

 

[RANCH]

I don't know why it still surprises me that so many of us seem to interpret information so differently, but it does. When I read that the dogs had hit in the same spots, I thought it meant the spots that they got hits the first time they went out, a week or two earlier. I was also wondering if having people other than the handlers playing with the dogs and walking with them during their search would have any effect on the results? I've been curious because of all of the pictures I've seen with Katt and Mike out there with the dogs (more than I've seen of their handlers with them). MOO

I thought that the same spots meant the spots that were alerted on back in November.

Katt and Mike were were out in the field with the working dogs?

Sarx, is it a good idea to have family and or friends of the missing person with the dogs while they are being deployed?

 

[sarx]

I thought that the same spots meant the spots that were alerted on back in November.

Katt and Mike were were out in the field with the working dogs?

Sarx, is it a good idea to have family and or friends of the missing person with the dogs while they are being deployed?

My opinion is that family shouldn't be out in the field, but being that we aren't LE, we can't force them not to be. In the case of HRD, they are not going to impact the find/scent, but I would never want a family member or loved one out there if a find does happen. I feel like it's something no parent should ever have to see.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I am now also confused because I thought somewhere in earlier articles it was stated at the most northern end of the lake on the east side where the rivers flow in.

But who knows where I got that from as everything is starting to melt together in my brain from so many different sources. Maybe I need to check Wendy's FB page.

The main river referred to at Vallecito Reservoir is Pine River.
http://www.usbr.gov/projects/Project.jsp?proj_Name=Pine%20River%20Project

There is a campground on the east with Pine River next to it called 5 Branches Campground.

Wendy said:
What we did is we moved it closer to east side of lake where the five branch rivers flow into each on that side (which doesn't exactly make sense-did she mean flow into each other?)

There is also an outflow river to the west of the dam. I wish I knew how to post pictures.

 

[sarx]

So is there a 5 branch river or rivers? Or is she referring to the 5 Branch area and Pine River?

 

[Angelonline]

I just want to say a big THANKS to Sarx for answering some questions. I just wish we had more info to work with.

 

[Ghostwheel]

So is there a 5 branch river or rivers? Or is she referring to the 5 Branch area and Pine River?

Dam good question. There is nothing listed anywhere called 5 branch river or rivers, but you have to think if the campground is called 5 Branches Campground, it either means river or trees.:dunno:

 

[Flutterflies]

I don't know why it still surprises me that so many of us seem to interpret information so differently, but it does. When I read that the dogs had hit in the same spots, I thought it meant the spots that they got hits the first time they went out, a week or two earlier. I was also wondering if having people other than the handlers playing with the dogs and walking with them during their search would have any effect on the results? I've been curious because of all of the pictures I've seen with Katt and Mike out there with the dogs (more than I've seen of their handlers with them). MOO

Thanks for the post. I have had the same thoughts.<modsnip>. I find it odd that Katt and Mike were there and not just there in the area but actively participating as evidenced by the many pictures of the dogs without their handlers. Seems rather unprofessional, IMO.

And maybe all of the above in addition to questionable certification is why local LE is not impressed with the hits from Wendy's dogs. All this is so very sad for Dylan if he is there needing too be recovered.
MOO

 

[absentia]

Are you saying that Wendy may have been "cueing" her HRD dogs when working the lake site because she knew of previous alerts?

she said they worked in a process of elimination, checking out areas until they started getting hits. this process of elimination took them closer to 5 branch (campground, boat launch area I assume). It was there that the dogs went crazy when they cut through the ice. This was the same location the dogs hit on in Nov.
I guess being an animal person I can visualize the visceral experience of dogs searching something out and reacting and trying to retrieve it. It may be these dogs are trained to track but maybe are not trained in response the way FBI K9's are, to sit and point. their impulse to dig and retrieve whatever is under the ice may not be standard protocol but may also not mean they aren't good trackers. I trust the dogs, that there's someone down there. Who it is, we don't know. But those dogs wanted to get at it.
Also, Wendy was attacked by the LaSalle investigation that they didn't find the human flesh she did, but they BULLDOZED over the evidence. She matched up material from the home to what was in the landfill with the human tissue. I'll try to find the link. Wendy said it was the most ungraceful search by LE in the damage they did to the evidence in the landfill.

 

[missrugby]

This is a little off track here but I just wanted to say this.

When doing a puzzle with my little one I say to her "Just because it looks like a piece fits, doesn't mean it does. You have to put it together with all the other pieces, because if you try to force it you will get stuck"

I guess the reason I bring this up is because it concerns me that it is too easy to pigeonhole something just because it looks like it fits.

Tunnel Vision is extremely easy to have in situations like this and while I believe that LE is 100% above board and working to the best of their ability I do acknowledge that they are only human. The parents of Sheena Morris can attest to this without a doubt.

I believe that MR is an individual who does not fit into the normal thread of society. Do I believe that he could harm his son? I cannot answer that because I do not know him personally or his background other than what has been portrayed through the media.

AZgrandma I understand that you have lived with this man and I am in no way trying to discount your experiences with him or disrespect the input you have had into giving some insight into MR. Please accept that with the sincerity it is intended with.

I worry that because of the intense attention placed on MR, right or wrong, it has taken the focus off other possibilities.

Again as stated before I am not defending MR and if he is guilty than I will happily eat my words. What I am defending is an individuals right to innocent until proven guilty. I know everyone's hearts and minds are set on finding Dylan, but I wonder if anyone has given any thought to the affect the <modsnip> blaming is having on MR if indeed he is just a man who has a missing child.

I understand what you are saying but my problem is he's just not acting like a man with a missing child. If he were innocent IMO he would take the polygraph so that everyone would stop wasting their time focusing on him to find his child. If I were in his shoes and I were innocent I wouldn't give a rats you know what what people were saying about me I would be doing everything in my power to find my child.

 

[Seek&Find]

What I am defending is an individuals right to innocent until proven guilty.

SBM

Innocent until proven guilty specifically refers to US judicial practices. It does not refer to or constrain a person's ability to use logic, deduction, facts, or evidence to form an opinion or state an opinion outside the judicial process. A person's actual innocence or guilt is not necessarily reflected in court decisions either. The innocent are sometimes found guilty, and the guilty sometimes are found innocent. Neither changes whether the person is truly innocent or guilty. If Mark murdered Dylan, he's guilty of murder even if no charges are ever brought. Discussing opinions doesn't convict someone. That's reserved for courts. Nor does it change their true innocence or guilt. And discussing is what we do.

Moo