CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #42

[MrsPC]

MrsPC can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it is based on Bender's statement that either something happened at the house or Dylan was abducted from the house and that Bender could not come up with a 3rd option. I think this is in the MB interviews. But there is a strong implication that Dylan made it to MR's if there is no 3rd option.

Salem

yes, per Bender's statements it's logical to assume that Dylan did make it there.

I can't post the link to Cory's statement due to Websleuth rules

 

[Dee10]

~Respectfully snipped~

This has come up before, but I don't think it has really been discussed, or if it has, I missed it.

Does anyone have a theory as to why the footprints and the bike keep getting mentioned? The bike wasn't missing and there was no snow on the ground, so why would those things be noticable? Why do you think this is a sticking point?

Salem

I think for a 13 yr. old, bikes are their main transportation vs. walking. Why wouldn't he have used the bike? If there was a flat tire or the bike was too small, I don't think the bike would be brought up or an issue.

Regarding foot prints, I am speculating although the ground wasn't frozen, if the ground is soft and the weather is cold it will hold footprints. I don't know if the ground was soft, but ER & CR have both mentioned lack of footprints so it maybe a possibility this is the reason why they feel this is an issue? :dunno:

 

[NC Analyzer]

yes, per Bender's statements it's logical to assume that Dylan did make it there.

I can't post the link to Cory's statement due to Websleuth rules

Maybe LE does have something to indicate Dylan made it to Mark's house. It would still be entirely possible that an argument ensued shortly after they got there and Mark got so mad at Dylan that he told him he was going to take him back to the airport and send him home to his mom. Dylan didn't want to be there anyway, so he got all his stuff and they headed back toward the airport. Dylan could have made that last text around 9:37 pm on the way, which may have further inflamed Mark...he pulled over somewhere...told Dylan to get out of the truck and bam...it was over. Still leaves plenty of time for disposal and no evidence left in the truck.

How many places could Mark have pulled in somewhere on that road where he would not have been observed by anyone? Any locations near a river that might flow toward Vallecito Lake?

 

[rebeccaeee]

Maybe LE does have something to indicate Dylan made it to Mark's house. It would still be entirely possible that an argument ensued shortly after they got there and Mark got so mad at Dylan that he told him he was going to take him back to the airport and send him home to his mom. Dylan didn't want to be there anyway, so he got all his stuff and they headed back toward the airport. Dylan could have made that last text around 9:37 pm on the way, which may have further inflamed Mark...he pulled over somewhere...told Dylan to get out of the truck and bam...it was over. Still leaves plenty of time for disposal and no evidence left in the truck.

How many places could Mark have pulled in somewhere on that road where he would not have been observed by anyone? Any locations near a river that might flow toward Vallecito Lake?

This is the second post this week, if I recall, suggesting that even if MR and Dylan made it home, they might have set off again. Brilliant! Can't believe I had not considered this is 42 threads. Lines up nicely with the previous search areas as well. FWIW, K-9 Forensics is trying to organize more volunteers for a return trip to Colorado, per their FB page. There is still so much land and water to search.

 

[SCHMAE]

I like this theory because it would mean that LE has something serious to guide them. My only question is why wouldn't they have arrested MR by now? This would be an eye witness account of something terribly wrong, kwim? I think it would be sufficient with everything else to get an arrest warrant?

Hmmmm.............

Salem

Because they don't have Dylan and do not know if he's ok or not.
If T went and banged on door and MR was gone and no one answered, then
there is no evidence of anything wrong, only MR's story that he was still at
home at 6 and that when he did leave ( in case he got his time wrong) DR should have been there sleeping on couch at 6. T or someone like T. Idk, just
brainswirl thinking !

 

[SCHMAE]

I think for a 13 yr. old, bikes are their main transportation vs. walking. Why wouldn't he have used the bike? If there was a flat tire or the bike was too small, I don't think the bike would be brought up or an issue.

Regarding foot prints, I am speculating although the ground wasn't frozen, if the ground is soft and the weather is cold it will hold footprints. I don't know if the ground was soft, but ER & CR have both mentioned lack of footprints so it maybe a possibility this is the reason why they feel this is an issue? :dunno:

From CR's words on Phil show, it sounds as if MR has told either ER , CR or LE that he did or did NOT see Dylan's prints outside , right? I '
ve never seen mention of MR saying anything about Dylans prints. The first I heard was when ER said when she got there , she looked and did not find Dylans foot prints. So for CR to say something about paraphrase , ' you saw the fishing pole before you noticed his bike and foot prints?' sounds like MR has made a definite statement to someone that he saw Dylans' prints or lack thereof. Correct?

 

[NC Analyzer]

This is the second post this week, if I recall, suggesting that even if MR and Dylan made it home, they might have set off again. Brilliant! Can't believe I had not considered this is 42 threads. Lines up nicely with the previous search areas as well. FWIW, K-9 Forensics is trying to organize more volunteers for a return trip to Colorado, per their FB page. There is still so much land and water to search.

Well, it sorta popped into my head thinking about my adult kids when they were at that age.

If we were out and about and they started acting up, I would tell them "I'm taking you home, (or back to the hotel) or wherever...anywhere else.

Then I started thinking about my ex after we split up and how sometimes the kids didn't want to be at his house because all their friends were at my house (where they lived) and he got so ticked off at them a couple of times, he actually drove them back to my house and dropped them off so he didn't have to listen to the complaining all weekend.

It was my ahh-haa moment.

ETA: And there were plenty of times in my life that dad stopped the car and told me to "get out"...which usually meant a whipping. I can also admit that my ex had the same thing happen to him as a kid and in turn he did the same to my kids a couple of times. Old school discipline here.

I can easily see MR telling Dylan to get out of the truck....and Dylan thinking he was going to get a whipping....but this time, maybe it led to something much more sinister. JMO

 

[azgrandma]

However, within the law, premeditation can be formed within a minute or less. It does not have to be months of planning, weeks or even days. It can be any amount of time that it takes a person to decide to continue their actions that is intended to cause the other person's death.

In Colorado, first degree murder must commonly occur in one of three manners: (1) intentional murder where the person after deliberation and with intent to cause the death of a person, does cause the death of that person or of another person; (2) felony murder, which means that someone was killed in the course of another crime such as arson, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, and sexual assault; (3) extreme indifference murder where the person does not target anyone in particular but given his extreme indifference to life generally he engages in conduct that creates a grave risk of death to a person, and thereby causes the death of another.

In The People of the State of Colorado vs. William V. Sneed, the appellate court held that premeditation required deliberation and reflection to create the premeditated intent before the act.

This means that between the forming of the intent to do the act and the act itself, an appreciable length of time must have elapsed to allow deliberation, reflection and judgment. U.S. v. Mack, 466 F.2d 333 (D.C. Cir.)


http://www.courts.state.co.us/Glossary.cfm

I apologize for getting carried away!

Respectfully sniped by me. Thank you for putting up that valuable information. I remember, in another life, when it was taught that to understand negligence you needed to apply the <modsnip> stupid law as well.

The example was of a family that was driving with a mattress on top of their van down the highway, rather than use rope to secure it to the top, they used their child. Seriously - spread eagle on top of the mattress, hands holding onto the window/door going down the highway.
Wind caught the mattress & kid and off they went.

The <modsnip> stupid law applied, how can someone be so <modsnip> stupid as to do that. Negligent homicide.

Also IIRC - Murder = intent and homicide = no motive

 

[Ghostwheel]

From CR's words on Phil show, it sounds as if MR has told either ER , CR or LE that he did or did NOT see Dylan's prints outside , right? I '
ve never seen mention of MR saying anything about Dylans prints. The first I heard was when ER said when she got there , she looked and did not find Dylans foot prints. So for CR to say something about paraphrase , ' you saw the fishing pole before you noticed his bike and foot prints?' sounds like MR has made a definite statement to someone that he saw Dylans' prints or lack thereof. Correct?

Look at it this way: if Elaine and Cory arrived and the first thing they did was look for how Dylan might have wandered off, they might have checked for a bike (if Dylan used one to get around, and in that area I cannot see how he wouldn't at least sometimes use a bike) and have looked for footprints to see what direction Dylan might have gone in. I remember reading or hearing on a video (yes, I will try to find that link) that Elaine said that Dylan had distinctive treads, and that she didn't see his tread print anywhere, yet she saw both her prints and Cory's prints, meaning footprints showed up at least in some places.

My point is that these two items might be a sticking point if those were the first things THEY thought of.

In addition, assume Mark actually did get out the fishing pole and he left it next to the TV (or it had remained there since Dylan's last visit), If Mark walks in, sees Dylan is not there, sees the fishing pole is not there, he still just goes and takes a nap? He doesn't search his house and around his house to see where his son is? He doesn't go to find his son to let him know he can take him to his friends house now, when he knows how much Dylan wants to see his friends? Even when you consider that Dylan might have decided he really wasn't that interested in seeing his friends and wanted to go fishing alone in November, Mark's accounting is not the actions of a father who cares about what his son wants, because when Mark got home, his knowledge was that his son wanted to go visit friends.

 

[mmmagique]

I don't think it was R either, mainly because R shared all the emails he received - or at least it appeared to be all of them?

Salem

They didn't show the ones from earlier in the day because they were a bit...well...you know how guys can talk about girls, right? *lol* But yes, I believe we saw all the ones from that particular time period.

 

[ColdHands]

...Mark's accounting is not the actions of a father who cares about what his son wants, because when Mark got home, his knowledge was that his son wanted to go visit friends.

snipped

What if Mark got home in a bad mood because he hadn't been able to get hold of Dylan? Dylan wakes up and sees that his phone was full of texts from his dad. I don't know about his phone but many you can see the texts as kind of a preview with out opening them. Dylan gets a bad attitude and shuts the phone off for the day. Dylan wanders around a bit and comes back in later in the day, maybe even messes around a bit with the fishing pole. Mark goes ballistic. He would have, in the mail lady scenario, about 2 hours (1:30ish - 3:30) to cover up what happened. Discarding the mail lady's report, he'd have 11:30-3:30 to cover up.

 

[SuziQ]

I think the recipient of the 9:37 text was T. And I don't think it was sent by Dylan.

Ding ding ding!!!!!

Exactly! T lives by the lake and that 9:37 text could have been the beginning of staging a fishing story. I could see it saying something like....

Hey T. Gonna walk to the lake tomorrow. You gonna be home?

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

~Respectfully snipped~

This has come up before, but I don't think it has really been discussed, or if it has, I missed it.

Does anyone have a theory as to why the footprints and the bike keep getting mentioned? The bike wasn't missing and there was no snow on the ground, so why would those things be noticable? Why do you think this is a sticking point?

Salem

I'm not sure about the footprints but I'm guessing that after MR noticed the fishing pole missing he also noticed the bike was outside of the garage?

 

[SCHMAE]

Respectfully sniped by me. Thank you for putting up that valuable information. I remember, in another life, when it was taught that to understand negligence you needed to apply the <modsnip> stupid law as well.

The example was of a family that was driving with a mattress on top of their van down the highway, rather than use rope to secure it to the top, they used their child. Seriously - spread eagle on top of the mattress, hands holding onto the window/door going down the highway.
Wind caught the mattress & kid and off they went.

The <modsnip> stupid law applied, how can someone be so <modsnip> stupid as to do that. Negligent homicide.

Also IIRC - Murder = intent and homicide = no motive

That is so horrific sounding.

 

[NC Analyzer]

Ding ding ding!!!!!

Exactly! T lives by the lake and that 9:37 text could have been the beginning of staging a fishing story. I could see it saying something like....

Hey T. Gonna walk to the lake tomorrow. You gonna be home?

Yep. I can see that too. If it wasn't Dylan at the 9:37 marker, then it was MR after he did what he did.

I think Dylan will be found near T's home....is there a river near T's house that flows toward the lake? With an access road off the main road?

 

[SCHMAE]

Ding ding ding!!!!!

Exactly! T lives by the lake and that 9:37 text could have been the beginning of staging a fishing story. I could see it saying something like....

Hey T. Gonna walk to the lake tomorrow. You gonna be home?

Ahhh! Nice !

 

[NC Analyzer]

snipped

What if Mark got home in a bad mood because he hadn't been able to get hold of Dylan? Dylan wakes up and sees that his phone was full of texts from his dad. I don't know about his phone but many you can see the texts as kind of a preview with out opening them. Dylan gets a bad attitude and shuts the phone off for the day. Dylan wanders around a bit and comes back in later in the day, maybe even messes around a bit with the fishing pole. Mark goes ballistic. He would have, in the mail lady scenario, about 2 hours (1:30ish - 3:30) to cover up what happened. Discarding the mail lady's report, he'd have 11:30-3:30 to cover up.

You can't see texts unless they arrived on the phone. LE has already stated, LAST ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION AT 9:37 pm

 

[SCHMAE]

Yep. I can see that too. If it wasn't Dylan at the 9:37 marker, then it was MR after he did what he did.

I think Dylan will be found near T's home....is there a river near T's house that flows toward the lake? With an access road off the main road?

This whole line of thought makes me wonder if T knows R. Because if everyone knew that D was supposed to spend the day or two following at R's house then wouldn't T say ' i thought you were going to R's house' Unless those two boys don't really know each other too much or hang out. It would make sense T being futher up the mountain that the other boys that he may have been a friend D hung out with mostly when he's up at MR's place and maybe T doesn't socialize as much with the other kids D knows. Just thinking again, sorry for the ramble. it is curious that T's been radio silent all this time.

eta , if any of these theories are slightly right regarding T , then that might explain why they are so hush , hush. They don't want to say anything to upset MR. He lives very near them OR perhaps if there is anything to it, MR doesn't even realize it STILL !

 

[ColdHands]

You can't see texts unless they arrived on the phone. LE has already stated, LAST ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION AT 9:37 pm

I don't interpret that as meaning the texts didn't arrive on the phone.

 

[mmmagique]

Well Im not so sure because R sends him a text at the same time so that to me says something.

They both have that 937 time and it is possible LE asked him not to reveal that last text message. I dont know I cant imagine who else would get that text.

JMO

Any other friend of his.

He didn't seem to be holding back, and I doubt LE told him to talk about all the texts but one. I don't think they'd trust a kid that age to do that. So (I think) either said, go ahead, and tell what ya know, or they told him not to say anything but he did anyway. (I favor column a)