CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 #11

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Fenton didn’t know what he meant

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
JH tells Dr. Feinstein about his ex and he hates people after a break up. He hates "shepal and Shepard's" #theatershooting #theatertrial

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Feinstein asked about parents. JH said mother overly altruistic. Called her on mothers day. Dad wasn’t affectionate.
Dad would tell him how he felt. Sister - sibling rivalry
Dad would tell him how he felt. Sister - sibling rivalry
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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 41s41 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Asked more about it. JH said he wasn’t worried he hadn’t yet. Was playing 100 hrs of Diablo 3 in last 3 weeks

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Anica Padilla ‏@AnicaPadilla · 58s59 seconds ago
Gunman told Dr. Feinstein that he told his ex-girlfriend he "hates sheeples and shepherds," per Dr. Fenton. #theatershooting

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
JH says he played 100 hours of Diablo 3 in a few weeks time #theatershooting #theatertrial
 
The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Books reading
- Tylenol Terrorists

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 52s52 seconds ago
JH read about the Tylenol Terrorist and told this to Dr Feinstein #theatershooting #theatertrial

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 56s57 seconds ago
JH didn't express target or plan but mentioned homicidal ideation #theatershooting #theatertrial

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 35s36 seconds ago
#theatershooting

homicidal thoughts - mentioned again but no targets

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 56s57 seconds ago
JH didn't want any anti psychotic meds #theatershooting #theatertrial

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 53s54 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Agreed to come back & meet with both psychs

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Didn’t tell Fenton about weapons/gear he had purchased by that point

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 43s44 seconds ago
No new info about homicidal thoughts were given to Dr's such as his purchases for the killings #theatershooting #theatertrial

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 40s41 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Next appt: 6/11/2012

No contact between visits

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

June 11 - looked/acted same. Fenton & Feinstein there. 45-50 min scheduled. Lasted 20
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JH came in and as they walked in where Feinstein was, Fenton asked about exams, JH said he failed
CMooreNews ‏@CMooreNewsNow · 48s49 seconds ago
On June 11,2012 shooter said he failed exams. Dr. Fenton said in #theatershooting trial. Shooter told Dr. he would drop out.

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
June 11th JH tells Dr's he's failed his exams. Fenton suggests he retake them. JH says he will drop out #theatershooting #theatertrial

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Fenton said maybe he would retake it or do remedial work. JH said he would drop out. Seemed “inappropriately nonchalant

JH very relaxed - inappropriate to Fenton. Seemed less stressed once he said he would drop out.
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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
JH was really relaxed about failing and Fenton felt that was inappropriate behavior #theatershooting #theatertrial

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 35s35 seconds ago
Fenton and Feinstein looked for stressors with JH and they asked him if he had a plan. JH says he will get a job #theatershooting

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 35s35 seconds ago
Fenton and Feinstein looked for stressors with JH and they asked him if he had a plan. JH says he will get a job #theatershooting

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 53s53 seconds ago
#theatershooting

JH said he would look for job to support himself

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

JH having a plan and short-term goals said to docs he had logical plans. Made them feel better
 
This is why I find psychiatrists relying on a patient's inputs ( self reporting) is so difficult for any therapist. They can't read minds and have to rely on patients actual words or demeanour to interpret.!!!!! Bugs the hell out of me when many outsider inputs could assist in clarifying things..but isn't allowed due to HIPPA!!

JH simply was a TICKING TIME BOMB and therapist couldn't hear the "TICKING"!!
 
The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

JH said he had lease to Nov and he said “I probably won’t break that” when asked if going back to CA

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Jeffrey Evan Gold ‏@jeffgoldesq · 53s53 seconds ago
JH psychotic w mass homicidal ideations, not on anti-pyschotics. Dr F looking for more risk factor? #theatershooting

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Asked if JH had told people. Told 1 classmates he failed and planning to tell parents

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
JH says he won't break his lease at apartment and seemed logical. Dr's asked if JH told anyone about failing class #theatershooting

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Didn’t think it would surprise them and they’d be supportive

------Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
JH told a classmate he failed and planned on telling his parents #theatershooting #theatertrial

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

They wondered if he was mad at the program/school/person and he didn’t seem so

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 59s59 seconds ago
#theatershooting

JH said he would look for job. Financial - Jh said he had 10k in savings and parents would help if he really needed

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The Gold Patrol ® ‏@thegoldpatrol · 43s43 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Not suicidal, depressed, manic, to Fenton

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 54s54 seconds ago
JH told Dr's he had $10,000 in savings and his parents would help if needed. #theatershooting #theatertrial

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
Lunch break be back at 1:30pm MST #theatershooting #theatertrial bbm
 
Diablo 3 is a really popular role playing game, similar to world of warcraft. I've never played D3 but it's not overly grusome or crime causing. :)

Side note, I wonder if LF would have liked to diagnose him with "bat **** crazyitis". Seems to fit to me.

Additional side note, to me this guy is one of the scariest murderers I've seen. I'd much rather deal with hernandez, arias, fenecker (also bat **** crazy) any day. This guy is scary. The way he sits almost motionless in the courtroom and also on the tapes. Never adjusts for comfort, just sits, arms crossed, flat affect, monotone, staring. Almost demonic or possessed, non human. He sends chills down my spine. Someone call an old priest and a young priest.
 
Following but haven't posted but thanks for all the tweets etc :loveyou:
I absolutely think this creep is disgusting so I won't even use his name. The "shooter" period.
My only thought is that I believe that anyone who expresses homicidal thoughts or suicidal thoughts is automatically involuntarily committed. At least until a real diagnosis and overview can be had. I know that some patients have harm OCD and other conditions that can be identified and treated even though they have homicidal thoughts/ideations.
Am I missing something?
Again thanks to each and everyone of you!
 
I'm not sure what is actually required to be held, and it may vary between states, but I think having a plan or working on a plan is one of them. Some people have ideation but almost all of those will never take it any further. If he never verbalized planning of any kind, LF had no options I believe. From what I have watched, no one and nothing could have been done to stop this.
 
>RSBM< From what I have watched, no one and nothing could have been done to stop this.

I agree with your thoughts here.
The only thing that would have stopped this would have been a psychiatric hold as we all wish would have happened.
He also had to lie when he passed the automatic background screen when he purchased the weapons. There is a box to check yes or no if you are on psychiatric medication iirc.
Your id and fingerprints are scanned and sent thru a federal system that makes it where buyers don't have to wait to take their guns home anymore.
Just like the Virginia Tech shooter this is a terrible loophole in the screening. HIPPA once again I guess.
jmo
eta: also when he wrote/said to Fenton "violence is that what you need to hear" rings very stark to me. this was supposedly his explanation for the emoticon meaning he was punching her face, but why didn't she seem to grasp his obsession with violence? good lord I hope there isn't a juror who is leaning towards him having been legally insane, but it wouldn't surprise me, sadly
 
momoftwocrazies said:
I'm not sure what is actually required to be held, and it may vary between states, but I think having a plan or working on a plan is one of them. Some people have ideation but almost all of those will never take it any further. If he never verbalized planning of any kind, LF had no options I believe. From what I have watched, no one and nothing could have been done to stop this.
Click to expand...
yes, like a quote that I often use is "you don't know, what, you don't know". Very simple but realistic. He didn't tell her he was buying all his gear & was doing recon on the theater, detailing plans in a notebook, etc. He made sure to keep it all secret because as he said "they would lock me up & I wouldn't be able to complete the mission."! Also, GB keeps asking her if jh said anything about the human capital or point system & she said he never said anything about that. That seemed only to be in his notebook.
 
momoftwocrazies said:
I'm not sure what is actually required to be held, and it may vary between states, but I think having a plan or working on a plan is one of them.
Click to expand...

Here's some info on CO: http://www.coloradohealthpartnerships.com/members/resilience/mbr_hospitalization.htm

M-1 or Mental Health Hold

The actual Mental Health Hold (M-1) may be invoked when a person appears to be mentally ill and because of the mental illness, the person appears to be

An imminent danger to him or herself
An imminent danger to others
Gravely disabled.

In order to be classified as gravely disabled; a person has to meet one of the following two criteria:

1. The person is in danger of serious physical harm due to his (or her) inability or failure to provide food, clothing, shelter, medical care or lacks judgment in management or resources or social relations to the extent that his health or safety is significantly endangered and lacks the capacity to understand this.

2. His (or her) care and support by family members or other similar relationships is going to be terminated and the following conditions are present:
The person has chronic schizophrenia, affective, delusional or other disorder with psychotic features.
The person has been hospitalized in an inpatient setting at least two times in 36 months with periods of at least 30 days between admissions.
The person is exhibiting a deteriorating course of symptoms behavior substantially similar to those preceding hospitalization
The person is not receiving treatment essential to her health or safety.
 
Larry Ryckman &#8207;@larryryckman · 36m36 minutes ago
Dr. Lynne Fenton, JH psychiatrist, will return for further questions after lunch break, some time after 1:30 p.m.. #theatershooting

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Jeffrey Evan Gold &#8207;@jeffgoldesq · 40m40 minutes ago
12 dead and 70 injured in #TheaterShooting because our sysyem of mental health fails us. Visit out victims page: http://www.thegoldpatrol.com/victims.html

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4senthia said:
Following but haven't posted but thanks for all the tweets etc :loveyou:
I absolutely think this creep is disgusting so I won't even use his name. The "shooter" period.
My only thought is that I believe that anyone who expresses homicidal thoughts or suicidal thoughts is automatically involuntarily committed. At least until a real diagnosis and overview can be had. I know that some patients have harm OCD and other conditions that can be identified and treated even though they have homicidal thoughts/ideations.
Am I missing something?
Again thanks to each and everyone of you!
Click to expand...

I don't think having him committed would have helped--think it would have held off the attack but I don't think it would have prevented one from ever happening--It was just to solid in his mind thoughts.

On psych hold--those can be tricky-I think he could have pretended to be ok and been released fairly early. I don't think he shared all that he could with the doctors--which leads us to where we are.
 
Hey Zoey, What is your opinion of Dr. Fenton?
 
zoey said:
I don't think having him committed would have helped--think it would have held off the attack but I don't think it would have prevented one from ever happening--It was just to solid in his mind thoughts.

On psych hold--those can be tricky-I think he could have pretended to be ok and been released fairly early. I don't think he shared all that he could with the doctors--which leads us to where we are.
Click to expand...

I watched last night a program where they put a women in a psych hold, she was (terrifying/stalking her neighbor) & they explained that a 72 hr hold is not even that. This lady was out after 4 hours. They explained it is not mandatory 72 hrs. So that when the patient is interviewed, they can lie effectively to 'fool' the docs. So, even if he went in, he was still going to be out soon.
ETA- unless he started acting out like he did in Nov. 2012. But I doubt that would've happened.
 
MissHaley said:
I watched last night a program where they put a women in a psych hold, she was (terrifying/stalking her neighbor) & they explained that a 72 hr hold is not even that. This lady was out after 4 hours. They explained it is not mandatory 72 hrs. So that when the patient is interviewed, they can lie effectively to 'fool' the docs. So, even if he went in, he was still going to be out soon.
ETA- unless he started acting out like he did in Nov. 2012. But I doubt that would've happened.
Click to expand...


My mom had dementia and should have never lived on her own as long as she did but she could put herself together good enough--even after she had been in the senior psych ward for a bit and we were looking for placement they scheduled it around her sundowning cause she was just that good at presentation. It was crazy! --- What finally got her in placement was elevated sugar levels---but let me tell you we had some crazy talks and moments with her---and violent tendencies.....
 
I don't think Lynne Fenton asked enough questions. She seemed to assume a lot rather than clarify. We have to remember that she is being sued by one of the victim's family so she isn't going to tell the whole truth. That's just my opinion though.


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