CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #16

[ZhaZhaHa]

Just chills you to the bone. Quite clear that in this case there are 2 involved. Interesting too that the guy who got out of the car was wearing shorts and some sort of light colored tennis shoes.

Completely creepy! Right there where anybody can see out of the bar! I just had to google it because it sounded so familiar, and sure enough it's one of the bars I used to drive to and hostess live trivia for. My husband (boyfriend at the time), started going with me because he was so nervous about me walking alone at night in these places. It's in just a regular little strip mall. Aurora isn't my favorite place, for sure, but I don't remember feeling THAT unsafe (of course I was 8 years younger and infallible then).

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

There are only a couple of reason that I can think of to keep grocery receipts. One, if you can write off something you bought, like office supplies. Two, if you bought stuff for someone who was paying you back, and you needed the receipt to show them.

Otherwise, why keep a grocery store receipt?

To reconcile with your checking acct or credit card statement. :twocents:

 

[Sigh Sister]

She could have scratched him . . .

Watching the video, it looks like she punched him. :rocker:

Hopefully, she made him bleed. Maybe she got blood on her hand?

 

[Hambone1480]

I just think the timing of the abduction provides some ideas as to who may have done this. What are people doing during that time? People are usually going to work. People also may be coming home from work from a night-shift. I get the idea that somebody who drives near this area to or from work has seen kids walking to school in the area before. He may also have pinpointed certain kids or maybe just Jessica and noted that she walked alone for a short distance before she was with company. He could have scouted this area before or just did it upon first thought and glance. I don't know.

I would hope local businesses have identified and considered people who may have called in sick or just flat-out didn't show up for work that day. I would also consider jobs in the area in which people work until 6, 7, or 8 in the morning. Someone getting off work at those times certainly could have all day to do something bad like this and could have been drinking or drugging after a work shift to get up enough nerve to pull something like this off. Just some thoughts.

 

[Nore]

What dna could they have from this attempted abduction to compare to Jessica?

----------------
Saliva, semen, possibly a fingerprint.:seeya:

 

[Charlie09]

Sorry - wasn't referring to your post, but the discrepancies between the written article in your link and the video in the same link. In the video, around 1:57, they lay out that the Ketner attacker was described as light-skinned and the attacker last night, Hispanic.

The written description, about the seventh paragraph in that article, contradicts the video.

Not a big deal...the news gets their own info wrong sometimes!

Light skinned and hispanic can be the same thing.

 

[Foxfire]

Makes you wonder if possibly the UNSUB in Jessica's case used her as practice before moving on to adult females which in a lot of cases is how these killers start out as well. Either that or people have gone crazy all over and there are killers and rapists wherever you turn.

Imo, the opposite is true. An adult victim is much more difficult to abduct/gain compliance. After unsuccessful attempts, a predator may prey on a child who is smaller and less resistant/easy prey.
RE: there are killers and rapists wherever you turn

The following estimated number of absconded sexual offenders are only the ones that are registered...Don't know what the numbers are that have yet to be identified. Many states will not extradite absconded sexual offenders for various reasons..

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=3893

Sex Offender Tracking

With as many as 100,000 registered sex offenders in the United States whose whereabouts are unknown, expanding the ability to link these offenders to open and unresolved missing and exploited child cases across broad time and geographic parameters is of great potential benefit.

The primary goal of the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children's Sex Offender Tracking Team is to support federal, state, and local law enforcement by providing assistance in identifying and locating noncompliant/fugitive registered sex offenders.

 

[Pensfan]

And shoes maybe?

He made her walk to the place where she was killed or they are trophies.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

What dna could they have from this attempted abduction to compare to Jessica?

Transfer DNA maybe? That's all I can really think of. Maybe something on Jessica's clothing/backpack matched to DNA on clothing of another attempted victim?

 

[spoonco]

We now have how many attempted abductions all within the general area of Jessica's abduction and murder?

1)
We have an attempt abduction at Ketner lake with chemical soaked rag.

2)
We have another attempt at Ketner lake with chemical soaked rag.

3)
We have an attempted abduction/sexual assault where the perp left DNA(that was matched to the DNA found at Jessica's crime scene.)

1 or 2 are the same case as 3, right? Did they say 3 was sexual assault? I don't think we know that.

4)
We have an attempted abduction just last week outside a bar where a chemical soaked rag was used(note 2 perps in this case)

This one was last night.

5)
We have an attempted child abduction where the male appears to fit similar description of Ketner lake suspect.(2 teenagers witnessed and fought off perp from taking child)

Attempted abduction of a young boy, though.

My God!.. If Im not mistaken they all are from this year(some very recent) except for one that occurred in 2010.. I personally do not believe that they are all the work of one perp.. But I do believe that just as the dna match from the attempted abduction/sexual assault has been linked to Jessica's case.. I believe my initial thoughts on this perp NOT being a pedophile are likely accurate and that the victimology changed due to his ineptitude at subduing his preferece of victiim, adult female...which led to him targeting a female child ..

I believe that its very likely that this perp who is responsible for Jess abduction/murder is responsible for a couple of the above failed attempts ..but that the others are unrelated and possibly more than one other perp is involved in those unrelated attempts..

(bolding above is mine for emphasis) Great list and I think I just might agree, particularly if the woman at Ketner and Jessica's case are related. I'm not convinced this is a pedophile.

I somehow don't think the attempt last night is related, because I do think Jessica's killer acted alone, for some reason. But, the attempt last night is super scary since there were two people involved. I wonder if there is something gang-related going on??

 

[SuziQ]

The standard CODIS and Y-STR profiles used by law enforcement do not tell them anything about the suspects race or physical characteristics.

Yes, from collections of known offenders who you would already know what their race is. For unknown subs, LE and especially the Feds determine race. For an unsub, they need all the info they can get. Not just for an eventual DNA match, but so they know who they are looking for and narrow down the suspect field.

 

[Myanna]

I'm a new registered member. I found websleuths when looking for information about Renna Williams, the little girl who was missing in WI in August. They found her in the water near her home. I used to live near there. Anyway, when I heard about Jessica, I jumped on and have been lurking and following the threads since day one. I'm not sure what it is about this case that overwhelms me. Probably the fact that I have a daughter around Jessica's age. So, I finally registered. I was up all night last night getting caught up on the threads. I must say, I don't mind when people rehash things over and over again because sometimes it is after the 100 million time someone has looked at something an "ah ha" moment occurs. I am also having trouble remembering some of the finer details even though I have read all of the posts and the scanner. So, I don't mind when people get confused. The dialogue seems to work itself out. I also don't mind when people sleuth seemingly innocuous things like the wood used in the cross. We never know how something like that may apply and we might as well cast a wide net. Especially, since we really do not have much to go on and many of the reports could be construed as inconsistent. What I do mind is how snarky the posts were getting the last few threads. We're all in this trying to think outside of the box and work towards Jessica's cause. I appreciate that things have apparently calmed down today. JMOO OT---This case must really be getting to me because when I finally did go to bed last night, I dreamt that I was prosecuting the messy case. I am a lawyer but I am a pencil pusher in real life and rarely go into court! I’ll just take it as a sign that they will catch this person and he or she will be prosecuted. I don’t really have much to contribute yet. However, I was intrigued when some member mentioned working on the unidentified people. I started working on one right away. It helped me feel like I was actually being productive. The logic, attention to detail, and methodical nature of that research is more up my Type A alley. Thanks for listening.

 

[Sigh Sister]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...kidnapping-outside-bar-investigated-in-aurora

Can anyone identify what type of car is shown in the attempted abduction video at this link?

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

Given the high (gusty) winds in the area and the fact that much of the searching, evidence collecting, etc was going on in the open space (even more susceptible to winds dislodging and blowing small bits of paper great distances), I am not sure how much stock I am willing to put in these receipts being related to Jessie's case.

JMO

Yes and no. I can have a piece of trash from a neighbor stay in my yard all through a majorly windy day. If it gets stuck just right, it COULD stay.

 

[frankie069]

Imo, the opposite is true. An adult victim is much more difficult to abduct/gain compliance. After unsuccessful attempts, a predator may prey on a child who is smaller and less resistant/easy prey.
RE: there are killers and rapists wherever you turn

The following estimated number of absconded sexual offenders are only the ones that are registered...Don't know what the numbers are that have yet to be identified. Many states will not extradite absconded sexual offenders for various reasons..

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=3893

Sex Offender Tracking

With as many as 100,000 registered sex offenders in the United States whose whereabouts are unknown, expanding the ability to link these offenders to open and unresolved missing and exploited child cases across broad time and geographic parameters is of great potential benefit.

The primary goal of the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children's Sex Offender Tracking Team is to support federal, state, and local law enforcement by providing assistance in identifying and locating noncompliant/fugitive registered sex offenders.

Maybe I should have explained myself more. Most predators start out with animal abuse and even fire starting. In this case, this person/persons could have used Jessica to see if they could actually pull it off OR they could be the same people and knowing the news would tell parents themselves to be vigilant with their children just might now be moving on to older adults. If something can work one way, it can usually work backwards. (I hope that didnt sound rude because it wasnt meant to be). I just think they tried a child first and now are moving on. Way too many of the same types of crimes in the same area to not be the same person.

 

[Pensfan]

Welcome to Websleuths, Myanna!
:welcome:

 

[Wishbone]

1 or 2 are the same case as 3, right? Did they say 3 was sexual assault? I don't think we know that.



I somehow don't think the attempt last night is related, because I do think Jessica's killer acted alone, for some reason. But, the attempt last night is super scary since there were two people involved. I wonder if there is something gang-related going on??

Bar attack was Oct 16

On October 16, at approximately 11:20 p.m., Aurora police responded to the Pitchers bar located at 1670 South Chambers Road on report of an attempted kidnapping.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...kidnapping-outside-bar-investigated-in-aurora

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I'm a new registered member. I found websleuths when looking for information about Renna Williams, the little girl who was missing in WI in August. They found her in the water near her home. I used to live near there. Anyway, when I heard about Jessica, I jumped on and have been lurking and following the threads since day one. I'm not sure what it is about this case that overwhelms me. Probably the fact that I have a daughter around Jessica's age. So, I finally registered. I was up all night last night getting caught up on the threads. I must say, I don't mind when people rehash things over and over again because sometimes it is after the 100 million time someone has looked at something an "ah ha" moment occurs. I am also having trouble remembering some of the finer details even though I have read all of the posts and the scanner. So, I don't mind when people get confused. The dialogue seems to work itself out. I also don't mind when people sleuth seemingly innocuous things like the wood used in the cross. We never know how something like that may apply and we might as well cast a wide net. Especially, since we really do not have much to go on and many of the reports could be construed as inconsistent. What I do mind is how snarky the posts were getting the last few threads. We're all in this trying to think outside of the box and work towards Jessica's cause. I appreciate that things have apparently calmed down today. JMOO OT---This case must really be getting to me because when I finally did go to bed last night, I dreamt that I was prosecuting the messy case. I am a lawyer but I am a pencil pusher in real life and rarely go into court! I’ll just take it as a sign that they will catch this person and he or she will be prosecuted. I don’t really have much to contribute yet. However, I was intrigued when some member mentioned working on the unidentified people. I started working on one right away. It helped me feel like I was actually being productive. The logic, attention to detail, and methodical nature of that research is more up my Type A alley. Thanks for listening.

:welcome: Myanna! Thanks for sharing your perspective, and I hope to see you around a lot.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

We now have how many attempted abductions all within the general area of Jessica's abduction and murder?

1)
We have an attempt abduction at Ketner lake with chemical soaked rag.

2)
We have another attempt at Ketner lake with chemical soaked rag.

3)
We have an attempted abduction/sexual assault where the perp left DNA(that was matched to the DNA found at Jessica's crime scene.)

4)
We have an attempted abduction just last week outside a bar where a chemical soaked rag was used(note 2 perps in this case)

5)
We have an attempted child abduction where the male appears to fit similar description of Ketner lake suspect.(2 teenagers witnessed and fought off perp from taking child)

6)
We have an attempted abduction via enticement of a child on 9/9

7)
We have another attempted abduction via enticement of a child on 9/14(perp believed to be the same from 9/9)

8)
We have an attempted abduction of a 14year old.

My God!.. If Im not mistaken they all are from this year(some very recent) except for one that occurred in 2010.. I personally do not believe that they are all the work of one perp.. But I do believe that just as the dna match from the attempted abduction/sexual assault has been linked to Jessica's case.. I believe my initial thoughts on this perp NOT being a pedophile are likely accurate and that the victimology changed due to his ineptitude at subduing his preferece of victiim, adult female...which led to him targeting a female child ..

I believe that its very likely that this perp who is responsible for Jess abduction/murder is responsible for a couple of the above failed attempts ..but that the others are unrelated and possibly more than one other perp is involved in those unrelated attempts..

Your #2....there was another attempt at Ketner lake?

 

[spamelope]

I'm familiar with the term "touch DNA" from the Ramsey case, but I don't know how easy it is to get a perps DNA from a living human? And does LE do that kind of testing in an attempted abduction?
Here's a bit of info on touch DNA.
http://www.forensicmag.com/article/touch-dna