CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #17

[K.jill]

Just noticed this video that Sigh Sister posted in the last thread. It is less edited than the first one I viewed. This one shows more, IMO.

http://www.9news.com/dontmiss/295663/630/Video-released-in-attempted-kidnapping

 

[carbuff]

Politely........There is no established connection just YET, but there is always possibility that another case could be connected in the future. For example, if it is ever proven we have multiple people working together to commit these crimes, it would not surprise me that there are different descriptions of people. Also, a bald person could have maybe purchased man wigs and maybe is disguising his appearance during the commision of crimes.

Just politely trying to say that we have to be careful not to imply that things will never change, and we may find out that more of these cases are tied together.

To underline your point, they told us there was no connection to Ari Ligget while they were testing his DNA to make sure he wasn't involved. They're being very thorough and I think we can assume many many avenues are being investigated. They aren't going to tell us everything. Doing so might jeopardize the investigation, cast doubt on the prosecution, and probably put people's lives in danger. (I don't suppose the jogger is sleeping too well these days...)

 

[GrainneDhu]

It made me cry. Please watch it. What do you think a small, weak or elderly person could do to intervene? I've read enough accounts here to see that just getting a description, picture or license number may help to track someone down, but it would likely be too late for the person being abducted to be saved. It is awful.

SBM

I forgot to answer your actual question.

I'm legally blind and in public I need to use a wheelchair. I have a big voice, though, and I'm not afraid to use it. The vast majority of abductors are relying on going unnoticed, so just addressing the perp directly, in the voice every dog I have ever met knew not to mess with.

I'd also be ordering anyone around me who looked like they didn't know what to do. I'm used to doing that, I used to present seminars for a living so I got used to ordering people around who hadn't made up their minds yet. Many times, just hearing someone give 'permission' to act is enough to get someone through the natural "OMG what do I do" stage.

I really don't like using my cell phone and it doesn't have a camera anyway, so I'd throw it at the perp's head. From years of dog training, I have a pretty accurate pitching arm up to about 30 feet.

 

[K.jill]

OK I skimmed and didn't see this yet, I finally have a link for you all to see the victim interview from the attempted abduction in Aurora. I was looking all night last night and it's finally up!

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/10/23/womans-message-to-attackers-you-picked-the-wrong-woman/

They did pick the wrong woman! Love her.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The attempted abduction at Ketner Lake and Jessica's abduction was around holidays Memorial Day weekend and Columbus Day weekends.I'm very curious do they think this guy is local and why.I said before he could have been coming back home to family or visiting a friend or something on those holidays.

It would take time to do what he did to Jessica. I'm not sure that would be easy to explain away to family or friends on a visit.

Of course, if he's a weirdo with low social skills, it could be that his family and friends are used to that sort of thing from him.

 

[msthinksalot]

I just viewed the video from the attempt at the bar again several times. I do not believe it was just two people in that car. Last night posters said they saw the rear door of the car open, but I did not see that at all. However, today upon reviewing the vid, I do see it very clearly. That is definitely a 4-door sedan and I can clearly see the back passenger-side door open and then close quickly as soon as the "grabber" hits the pavement. So, there were at least 3 people in that white car, IMO.

I do not see the bar parking lot attempt as related to Jessica's abduction or the attempt on the jogger. Nothing points to it other than the rag over the face, but that is something many might use to subdue someone.

I see no connection, but I prefer to keep an open mind and not rule anything out completely until LE announces they have ruled it out.

Yes, I saw that too. I am thinking that they waited until they thought she was being subdued. The backseat person was needed to help get her into the car, I imagine. Scary stuff.

WTH is wrong with the dude on the patio. He actually appeared to look the other way after she jumped over the fence, while she's gesturing to him as if she was saying "Did you see what just happened"?

I'm wondering if they are copycats... a bunch of goons who generally disrespect women or are rapey, but went about it in a more underhanded way, like using roofies. Then they heard about this chemical rag thing and though, hey, that's easier than spending money on drinks! :furious: They were actually sitting there in the car waiting for someone to come through the lot. I don't think they just happened to be driving through a parking lot with a chemical-soaked rag and just happened to see the woman coming out of her car. It's creepy. I'm glad she threw his sorry arse to the ground.

 

[concentric]

Snipped by me...

I got way behind in the threads and have been reading through the backlog, but that seems to be mostly about the cross. I do not recall ever seeing anything about this... is there a link?

--------------

No link, sorry, it was just a thought of mine. I've watched investigative programs where sometimes when men are incarcerated, they keep photos on their cell walls, letters, talk to other inmates. And in some cases, those other criminals who see this stuff, will get out and stalk their girlfriends, children.

 

[johncharles360]

The only case connected with Jessica is the one at Ketner Park where a chemical substance was used during the attack on a 22 year old jogger. That man has brown hair.

And what is the description of the DRIVER in the attempted Aurora Abduction?

http://kwgn.com/2012/10/21/aurora-police-seek-2-attempted-kidnap-suspects/

Police have limited suspect descriptions.
Driver: White or Hispanic male, clean-cut, 22-30 years old

Also note that: Aurora police say they have no reason to believe this case is connected to any other incidents and they believe it is an isolated event.

IF it is connected, could they alternate between driver and abductor?

One case is the possible white guy, another case is the possible hispanic male.

Common connections are the rag used. Wondering if Police are close... Im not sure why there has been no actual info on the car used in the Aurora attemp?

Could LE know who they are and not want them dumping the car? To make it harder to catch them?

Could that explain why no detailed info on the type of car?

 

[foxbluff]

I was wondering also if the link was the chemical used but I read here it is DNA...

Police: Connection made between Ketner Lake attack and Jessica Ridgeway murder

Posted on: 11:03 pm, October 21, 2012

Excerpt: "Two separate sources familiar with the investigation told FOX 31 Denver’s Justin Joseph, during the investigation into those two items, they recovered a man’s DNA. Sources say investigators matched that DNA to the DNA police recovered during an attempted attack on an adult female earlier this year.

Monday, in response to FOX31 Denver’s report, police confirmed a “definitive” link to an attack on a jogger at Ketner Lake at the end of May. Police declined to say whether that link was DNA to protect the integrity of the investigation."
http://kdvr.com/2012/10/21/exclusiv...uspect-linked-to-unsolved-attack-sources-say/

Ty, Enzeder, for this reply!

I hope I'm not the only one here who is having a terrible time trying to wrap my brain around who said what/when! Before the Fox report, I leaned towards thinking the connection betw the two cases was DNA, and if only JR's remains had been intact, I would have no trouble believing that LE was able to obtain DNA.

I wish that it wasn't just FoxNews and "sources familiar w/the investigation" (the latter, IMO, could be Talking Heads or somebody from WS for that matter - lol).

And, I have a hard time believing that JR's killer's DNA isn't in a database somewhere already.

Also, since LE confirms there's a connection betw JR and the 22 y.o. jogger, why would it harm the integrity of the investigation for them to come right out and say the connection is DNA??? Yes, I'm very confused...

 

[GrainneDhu]

It's a common thing for kids to say to their stepparents, for instance.

And even to their parents.

There was an incident a few years ago in a town near me where a little boy was screaming "you're not my dad!" at his own father. Onlookers encircled the pair, LE called, etc. It turned out that, no matter how much he wished it weren't so in the moment, your father remains your father.

 

[Etilema]

They did pick the wrong woman! Love her.

“Show them ‘I’m not scared of you.’ Women, don’t be scared. Fight, scream, holler. Let your voice be known.”

:rocker:

 

[thess]

Okay, I sometimes feel people see what they want to see with respect to some of this stuff, and I didn't pay too much attention to the 'back door opening' thing with the bar abduction, possibly because someone swore up and down that the car was a 2-door. The neon sign reflection theory seemed reasonable. But having watched it today on my large monitor at work, blown up, I'm pretty sure there is a back door opening between about 1:11 and 1:14. If you're careful with the frames you can see the gap of the door opening getting larger.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...kidnapping-outside-bar-investigated-in-aurora

Screenshot mine.

 

[Dee10]

bbm

maybe, maybe, probably. These three things made me think about the case of Elizabeth Ann Metzler from Md. She was kidnapped from bus stop and found murdered. The killer placed her "things" all around the area (I lived there) as if he was taunting LE, (my dad was one) It was said after he confessed that he was involved in the searches. This was back in the early 70's it was a few years later he was in prison for a sex offense and one of the main detectives was at the prison and Chaney ( the killer ) told the detective he had something to tell him. What he told him was that he killed Elizabeth and the detective asked him to describe her underpants and he did. It was something that they never told the public. It was scary times, her body was found about a mile from where I lived.

:seeya: I lived in Glen Burnie (as a kid) at that time too. I was just re-reading on W/S about that tragic case a few weeks ago.

 

[PrayingForMissing]

I was wondering also if the link was the chemical used but I read here it is DNA...

Police: Connection made between Ketner Lake attack and Jessica Ridgeway murder

Posted on: 11:03 pm, October 21, 2012

Excerpt: "Two separate sources familiar with the investigation told FOX 31 Denver’s Justin Joseph, during the investigation into those two items, they recovered a man’s DNA. Sources say investigators matched that DNA to the DNA police recovered during an attempted attack on an adult female earlier this year.

Monday, in response to FOX31 Denver’s report, police confirmed a “definitive” link to an attack on a jogger at Ketner Lake at the end of May. Police declined to say whether that link was DNA to protect the integrity of the investigation."
http://kdvr.com/2012/10/21/exclusiv...uspect-linked-to-unsolved-attack-sources-say/

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I'm working and dont have time to look. Sorry if this is a repeat!! Was just thinking that maybe if the jogger fought her abductor, she might have something under her fingernails? Maybe that is the DNA they have from that incident?

 

[nursebeeme]

Some more comments on the Westminster PD Facebook Page.

good for westy pd! excellent handling of the mis-information imhoo

 

[gitana1]

I wish they had been able to find a better actor for the part of the child. Her cries did not raise my inner alarm because they sounded so stage-y and lacking in true terror.

She sounded like a child having a temper tantrum to me.

I'm sure it's really difficult to find realistic acting in a role that requires a very young child, though.

100% agree. I saw the show when it aired, Primetime what would you do. It is interesting to me that the ones who finally stopped were two young men who probably did not have kids or much involvement with caring for kids. Those were in no way fear cries. Not at all. Had they been I am confident most people would intervene.

OK I skimmed and didn't see this yet, I finally have a link for you all to see the victim interview from the attempted abduction in Aurora. I was looking all night last night and it's finally up!

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/10/23/womans-message-to-attackers-you-picked-the-wrong-woman/

Thank you so much!

 

[GrainneDhu]

Once, in a open field in my neighborhood that kids play soccer and football in, I noticed a girl about 9, 10 sitting by herself, drawing in the dirt with a stick, and I slowed down, rolled down my window, and said, "hi, are your parents out here with you?" I was looking out for the kid, but when I did that she got up and ran like he$$ to her house. I was so impressed. Not thrilled she was playing alone outdoors, but great reaction!

SBM

So YOU'RE the suspected abductor in that case!!!

Sorry, I know it's serious and all that but it just struck me as funny...

 

[Ricki]

Okay, I sometimes feel people see what they want to see with respect to some of this stuff, and I didn't pay too much attention to the 'back door opening' thing with the bar abduction, possibly because someone swore up and down that the car was a 2-door. The neon sign reflection theory seemed reasonable. But having watched it today on my large monitor at work, blown up, I'm pretty sure there is a back door opening between about 1:11 and 1:14. If you're careful with the frames you can see the gap of the door opening getting larger.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...kidnapping-outside-bar-investigated-in-aurora

Screenshot mine.

I agree. I have watched that video several times. The back door definitely opened and closed.

 

[carbuff]

Okay, I finally found a mainstream source for the death of Carina Saunders in Oklahoma: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-watch-torture-dismember-Carina-Saunders.html

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

Can someone please help me find this.I think I remember a fire not far from where little Jessica was found and it happened after she was found.

There is a wildfire in Rocky Mountain National Park outside of Estes Park. It isn't necessarily close, but it isn't completely out of the way. It is a huge tourist attraction. It is about 50 miles away. It was reported about 2pm on Tuesday the 9th.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...ountain-national-park-fire-grows-wind-grounds