CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #17

[iamnotagolem]

I have done as much as I can to educate my kids about stranger abductions and how to remaine safe, but after seeing the video of the attempted abduction of the woman and the Hidden camera one with the little girl, I am actually more nervous than ever.

If you missed it from the last thread:

STRANGER DANGER - CHILD ABDUCTIONS : Would Anyone Help Your Child When Being Abducted? - YouTube

It made me cry. Please watch it. What do you think a small, weak or elderly person could do to intervene? I've read enough accounts here to see that just getting a description, picture or license number may help to track someone down, but it would likely be too late for the person being abducted to be saved. It is awful.

I think it is vital to teach our kids exactly what to say. "you're not my dad"?? Really? I wouldn't stop, I'd assume she was being a brat saying that to her step dad because she didn't want to go home. Big assumption on my part? Sure but she didn't seem to be in danger, IMO.

 

[SweetT]

I just viewed the video from the attempt at the bar again several times. I do not believe it was just two people in that car. Last night posters said they saw the rear door of the car open, but I did not see that at all. However, today upon reviewing the vid, I do see it very clearly. That is definitely a 4-door sedan and I can clearly see the back passenger-side door open and then close quickly as soon as the "grabber" hits the pavement. So, there were at least 3 people in that white car, IMO.

I do not see the bar parking lot attempt as related to Jessica's abduction or the attempt on the jogger. Nothing points to it other than the rag over the face, but that is something many might use to subdue someone.

I see no connection, but I prefer to keep an open mind and not rule anything out completely until LE announces they have ruled it out.

I just watched it again too at the other link http://www.9news.com/dontmiss/295663/630/Video-released-in-attempted-kidnapping and sure enough this is a four door vehicle and that back door did open. If you were waiting to see interior lights go on...it doesnt happen, not even when the passenger who tries to abduct the girl gets out. So it may be that the vehicle is very heavily blackened out windows or they shut off the interior lights just for the abduction purposes. But def at least 3 persons involved and definately a 4 door vehicle.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

That video is scary (stranger danger above), I watched it w my girls last night.

I know the public should have done something, and I know many times the victims don't have time to react, but I asked my girls what they thought that specific little girl in the mock abduction could have done differently (I know that is not the point, the point was to gauge public response not victim response, but still) and this is what my girls said she could have done differently:
Screamed, not whined, drop to the ground, address passerbys directly" lady! Help me! Call 911!"
I think those were great ideas, just sharing.

I have told my daughters another thing, too: always assume that a stranger that approaches you intends to harm you. Regardless of the words they use or what they appear to be doing, if you are approached by someone you don't know, first thought is "danger". If they are actually approaching you for a harmless reason, they will not be upset if you react in a protective/ assertive manner. They are not scared and paranoid, but they are alert. They have noticed a car parked in the driveway of an empty house nearby and asked me if we should call the police... (was person visiting neighbor and didn't want to park in the street). They are very aware of their surroundings.

Once, in a open field in my neighborhood that kids play soccer and football in, I noticed a girl about 9, 10 sitting by herself, drawing in the dirt with a stick, and I slowed down, rolled down my window, and said, "hi, are your parents out here with you?" I was looking out for the kid, but when I did that she got up and ran like he$$ to her house. I was so impressed. Not thrilled she was playing alone outdoors, but great reaction!

OMG I did this LAST NIGHT! I was driving down the highway and looked over to a soccer field/skate park area. I saw a truck pulled over to the soccer field and a boy standing in the grass talking to the man in the truck. I flipped around and went back to the park to check it out, and it looked as if it was his parents sitting in the truck while he was tossing his football around. There was a soccer game in progress, but nobody near all of them. I STILL took down the truck plate number and description!

 

[Ghostwheel]

.....

WTH is wrong with the dude on the patio. He actually appeared to look the other way after she jumped over the fence, while she's gesturing to him as if she was saying "Did you see what just happened"?

...

As the saying goes: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing---Edmund Burke. Perfect example. That guy would have probably just sat there as they pushed her into the car, if she hadn't escaped.

 

[Hatfield]

SBM

I forgot to answer your actual question.

I'm legally blind and in public I need to use a wheelchair. I have a big voice, though, and I'm not afraid to use it. The vast majority of abductors are relying on going unnoticed, so just addressing the perp directly, in the voice every dog I have ever met knew not to mess with.

I'd also be ordering anyone around me who looked like they didn't know what to do. I'm used to doing that, I used to present seminars for a living so I got used to ordering people around who hadn't made up their minds yet. Many times, just hearing someone give 'permission' to act is enough to get someone through the natural "OMG what do I do" stage.

I really don't like using my cell phone and it doesn't have a camera anyway, so I'd throw it at the perp's head. From years of dog training, I have a pretty accurate pitching arm up to about 30 feet.

Thank you. This is so encouraging, and I think it is a sign that we, as a society, are startting to change for the better and a lot more people are willing to stand up to a perp(s) or at least not go down without a fight.

A perfect example is the hijacking of airplanes (or lack thereof anymore). Ever since 9/11, we have seen MANY instances of the public on airplanes taking down people who were disrupting the flight and acting threatening to the flight. To me, this shows us that a lot more of the general public has changed for the better, and are much more willing to jump in and help out.
Before 9/11, it seems we behaved like "sheep" on a plane, but nowadays, I am convinced and comfortable that if something happens, there would be enough people willing to take action if needed.

There is a lot we can do, and if we no longer have our strength as we get older, we can still help out in other ways like you mentioned if a bad sitiuation develops.

The key is to educate and help more people to become willing to help out in times of need.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I just viewed the video from the attempt at the bar again several times. I do not believe it was just two people in that car. Last night posters said they saw the rear door of the car open, but I did not see that at all. However, today upon reviewing the vid, I do see it very clearly. That is definitely a 4-door sedan and I can clearly see the back passenger-side door open and then close quickly as soon as the "grabber" hits the pavement. So, there were at least 3 people in that white car, IMO.

I do not see the bar parking lot attempt as related to Jessica's abduction or the attempt on the jogger. Nothing points to it other than the rag over the face, but that is something many might use to subdue someone.

I see no connection, but I prefer to keep an open mind and not rule anything out completely until LE announces they have ruled it out.

It is very clear that the back door opened, but that does not mean there are three people. The driver could have opened the back door.

 

[thess]

Okay, I sometimes feel people see what they want to see with respect to some of this stuff, and I didn't pay too much attention to the 'back door opening' thing with the bar abduction, possibly because someone swore up and down that the car was a 2-door. The neon sign reflection theory seemed reasonable. But having watched it today on my large monitor at work, blown up, I'm pretty sure there is a back door opening between about 1:11 and 1:14. If you're careful with the frames you can see the gap of the door opening getting larger.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...kidnapping-outside-bar-investigated-in-aurora

Screenshot mine.

Quoting self. Looking at just the still, I'm pretty sure the 'neon sign reflection' theory got started because the angle of the surface of the door changed as it opened, thus causing it to reflect off the sign.

In other words, yes, there is a reflection of a neon sign--because the car door is opening up to an angle that causes the reflection to be evident to the camera.

 

[Marilynilpa]

SBM

I forgot to answer your actual question.

I'm legally blind and in public I need to use a wheelchair. I have a big voice, though, and I'm not afraid to use it. The vast majority of abductors are relying on going unnoticed, so just addressing the perp directly, in the voice every dog I have ever met knew not to mess with.

I'd also be ordering anyone around me who looked like they didn't know what to do. I'm used to doing that, I used to present seminars for a living so I got used to ordering people around who hadn't made up their minds yet. Many times, just hearing someone give 'permission' to act is enough to get someone through the natural "OMG what do I do" stage.

I really don't like using my cell phone and it doesn't have a camera anyway, so I'd throw it at the perp's head. From years of dog training, I have a pretty accurate pitching arm up to about 30 feet.

GrainneDhu, I am your biggest fan!:blushing:

 

[Etilema]

I just watched it again too at the other link http://www.9news.com/dontmiss/295663/630/Video-released-in-attempted-kidnapping and sure enough this is a four door vehicle and that back door did open. If you were waiting to see interior lights go on...it doesnt happen, not even when the passenger who tries to abduct the girl gets out. So it may be that the vehicle is very heavily blackened out windows or they shut off the interior lights just for the abduction purposes. But def at least 3 persons involved and definately a 4 door vehicle.

That's an interesting point. On some cars you can turn off the interior lights. (Of course, they could have also just broken or removed the bulbs or taken the fuses out, or whatever, if there was not an actual switch.)

JMO

 

[Etilema]

GrainneDhu, I am your biggest fan!:blushing:

I thought I was!

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

Okay, I sometimes feel people see what they want to see with respect to some of this stuff, and I didn't pay too much attention to the 'back door opening' thing with the bar abduction, possibly because someone swore up and down that the car was a 2-door. The neon sign reflection theory seemed reasonable. But having watched it today on my large monitor at work, blown up, I'm pretty sure there is a back door opening between about 1:11 and 1:14. If you're careful with the frames you can see the gap of the door opening getting larger.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...kidnapping-outside-bar-investigated-in-aurora

Screenshot mine.

I agree it does look like a door opens.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I just watched it again too at the other link http://www.9news.com/dontmiss/295663/630/Video-released-in-attempted-kidnapping and sure enough this is a four door vehicle and that back door did open. If you were waiting to see interior lights go on...it doesnt happen, not even when the passenger who tries to abduct the girl gets out. So it may be that the vehicle is very heavily blackened out windows or they shut off the interior lights just for the abduction purposes. But def at least 3 persons involved and definately a 4 door vehicle.

I agree there could be another person in there. The door definitely opens and shuts. The video isn't a constant thing (looks like it takes a frame every few seconds) because there is a gap in the video as the door shuts.

However, it could be the driver leaning back to open to door so the passenger can push her in. (easily done by leaning back the driver's seat) When passenger hits the ground, and woman runs past, driver closes the door.

 

[Tucarra]

Some more comments on the Westminster PD Facebook Page.

Thanks for quoting the Facebook....it helps, for those of us too 'techno-phobe' to open a Facebook page

 

[alwaysonmymind]

I still think it's a 2000 Honda Accord 4 Door Sedan. :moo:

 

[SweetT]

Ghostwheel; I admit I dont have a 4 door sedan as is in the video..but in my suv there is no way I would be able to reach the passenger back door even with my seat back..and I'm 5 ft 8. Not without inspector gadget arms.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Someone upthread, I believe it was Otto, asked why everyone keeps saying Hispanic. In this article it says the suspect in the lake ketner attempt was Hispanic. http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...kidnapping-outside-bar-investigated-in-aurora

CALL7 Investigator John Ferrugia reported Sunday night that the case bears some similarities to an attempted abduction case five months ago near Ketner Lake in Westminster.

In that case, a Hispanic male, 5 feet 6 to 5 feet 8 inches tall.* He also attempted to use a rag with chemicals on it to subdue a woman.

 

[thess]

Yeah, there is no way I could reach the far back door in my car (crappy 4dr sedan) even with seat back.

All things considered, though, my gut instinct is that the Aurora bar abduction had absolutely nothing to do with Jessica.

 

[b2alicia]

Just thinking about where the perp would have taken Jessica initially during those first 2 days...

-somewhere he would not be disturbed.
-somewhere there was no one else around
-somewhere he could come and go without being noticed.

Say he lives with a relative, and the relative wasn't going anywhere over the long weekend.

Then I remembered that sleezy area on Federal where there are lots of old run-down motels...between the 5400 block and about the 6500 block. I did a directions search from one of them to Witt Elementary school, and it's less than 10 miles.

I think a local would know about these. Maybe another spot for luminol?

 

[iamnotagolem]

Ghostwheel; I admit I dont have a 4 door sedan as is in the video..but in my suv there is no way I would be able to reach the passenger back door even with my seat back..and I'm 5 ft 8. Not without inspector gadget arms.

I am 5'2" so I have my seat very far forward. I can easily reach the back passenger door in our jeep wrangler unlimited. I just checked. I know I can easily do it in a car. Most guys are taller than 5'2" and have much longer arms than me. I didn't even lean the seat back. Just reached back and opened it up.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Ghostwheel; I admit I dont have a 4 door sedan as is in the video..but in my suv there is no way I would be able to reach the passenger back door even with my seat back..and I'm 5 ft 8. Not without inspector gadget arms.

Yes, but that is not an SUV. This looks like a compact, or at most midsize, car. I drove an import many years ago, without powers locks (yes, showing my age again), and often had to lean back and open the sticky passenger back door. Just recline the seat, lean over and pull the handle. Not hard if the car is set up for it.

Just saying it was very possible.