CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #20

[absentia]

I've always been told that SSRI's are super dangerous for people with mood disorders, it can send them spiraling in manic phases. I have no conclusive evidence and never really looked into it. I also have no idea what an SSRI feels like, just that they are easily dispensed from a GP and often without being assigned a psychotherapist. "Oh you're depressed? Here's Zoloft" Oh your kid has anxiety and isn't participating? Here's Paxil". That's been my take in what I've witnessed. Not saying all GP's are like that of course, but some are and often times I think people are pushed over the edge because it's not what they should be on. JMO.

well, they aren't always dangerous - they are made to improve mood disorders, but they can backfire in young people - adults and teens/kids. they can increase impulsivity, violence, suicidal thoughts, etc. I think kids should be tested for serotonin levels before being RX'd SSRI's. too much serotonin can mess with you too.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I think his mother needs to change the family name and move to a new area ... close enough to attend the trial, but hopefully far enough away to protect him.

I would do exactly that. If ever a child needed protecting, it's that boy. Poor kid.

 

[absentia]

... we've had snow and my 17 year old son is rowing a quad in 22F at this moment ...

His computer has to be used at the dining table, and can sometimes be used in front of the TV ... no way would he be allowed to hole up with his computer for hours in his room unless he should be sleeping, and if he's not sleeping he's still getting up on time in the morning. How does a 15 year old end up with so little supervision that he's become *advertiser censored* obsessed? What the heck is that about? How many people need to hole up in their private spaces with electronics for so many hours that they can become obsessed with *advertiser censored* ... certainly not normal people. He was rather chubby in his photo at the racetrack. I wonder if he was a difficult child and if anyone in his family was afraid for themselves after realizing what he did.

There's his cross ...

and how does a 17 yo living at home dismember a 10 yo girl? what's going on with supervision there?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

you have more compassion than I do. my heart breaks for Jessica's family. when I kiss my DD's head, I send wishes that Jessica's mom can feel the feeling of kissing her own DD's head once again.
BUT, although I understand the anguish AS' family must feel, and I don't *blame* them, I do feel that they in some way did not prevent this from happening. they did not do what was required to prevent AS from becoming what he became. or to prevent him from acting on it (committed to institution).

Generically I have compassion for AS's mother and family. Yet, at the same time, I don't know them or how they've lived. How can I trust carte blanche, their role in this tragedy. I don't mean 'direct role' as in participated in killing. But, for instance, who was the live in boyfriend? Why and how long was he there?
Did she pick better than she did when she picked the first guy?
I'm not sleuthing the guy, I'm pointing out that there was an unknown character in the picture who had influence over AS. What are his interests?

I feel compassion for the younger brother though. I hope he's salvageable. Seeing the grandparents in the hallway tugged at my heartstrings too. Although I know nothing about them, who needs this anguish in the twilight years of their lives? It's a terrible thought.

 

[mck16]

There is so much talk about *advertiser censored*, but we don't even know if JR was molested. I just can't see *advertiser censored* sex jumping to murder and desacration. I am not saying it didn't, but to me sex addiction is a hormone imbalance. Am I wrong? I do realize that all the hormones work together so I guess an imbalance could send the whole mind into a tail spin. I don't think it starts with *advertiser censored*, but it starts with the reason for watching the *advertiser censored*. Am I making any sense? Hope so. JMO

 

[MidwestMama]

... we've had snow and my 17 year old son is rowing a quad in 22F at this moment ...

His computer has to be used at the dining table, and can sometimes be used in front of the TV ... no way would he be allowed to hole up with his computer for hours in his room unless he should be sleeping, and if he's not sleeping he's still getting up on time in the morning. How does a 15 year old end up with so little supervision that he's become *advertiser censored* obsessed? What the heck is that about? How many people need to hole up in their private spaces with electronics for so many hours that they can become obsessed with *advertiser censored* ... certainly not normal people. He was rather chubby in his photo at the racetrack. I wonder if he was a difficult child and if anyone in his family was afraid for themselves after realizing what he did.

My mom used to get on us for being in our rooms too much. We would ask her why and she would say "Because it isn't good for who you will become." It didn't make any sense to us then, but it sure did when we got older. My kids were not allowed to have a tv or computer in their rooms. (Beside the isolation issue, it left what sites on the web/shows they watched unsupervised). They could read in their rooms or whatever, but not for hours on end every day. Mostly setting the expectation early made it routine for them to be on the main floor with the rest of the family whether they were doing homework, reading, tv, whatever.

 

[Madeleine74]

It occurs to me that the Manson Family followers were only a bit older than this killer. Some of them joined the "family" (aka the cult) when they were as young as 14 - 16. By the age of 22 they were sitting on death row (later commuted to life in prison).

There have always been aberrations of behavior and young killers, as someone astutely said upstream. What's new is not so much that it happens but that we all have access to the details and news worldwide 24/7.

 

[mck16]

My mom used to get on us for being in our rooms too much. We would ask her why and she would say "Because it isn't good for who you will become." It didn't make any sense to us then, but it sure did when we got older. My kids were not allowed to have a tv or computer in their rooms. (Beside the isolation issue, it left what sites on the web/shows they watched unsupervised). They could read in their rooms or whatever, but not for hours on end every day. Mostly setting the expectation early made it routine for them to be on the main floor with the rest of the family whether they were doing homework, reading, tv, whatever.

Does anyone know what kind of event this picture was taken at? tia

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM

This goes wayyyy past a kid with issues. JMO, of course, I am not sure there is ANY thing that could rehabilitate this type of person....before or after.

Research seems to indicate, however, that even someone with all the genetic dice stacked against them is not doomed to a life of crime.

Pensfan posted this link in the last thread:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

This is an NPR story about a neuroscientist who discovered that his brain scan is the same as those of the psychopaths he studies and that he has a gene variant known to be correlated with high aggression.

And yet he's a Ph.D researcher with a long, stable marriage, children, etc.

Why did he not turn out like his distant relative Lizzie Borden? He is convinced it is because he had a good childhood.

It seems to take 3 factors to turn a child into a psychopath: genes, brain abnormality and childhood violence. It's difficult to change your genes or the architecture of your brain but that still leaves childhood, which is under human control.

The NPR segment is well worth reading or listening to.

 

[Confusion]

Since he's not eligible for the death penalty, why would LWOP be a plea deal for him?

LOve this!!!! EXCELLENT ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, to play devil's advocate, there are lots of cases of false confessions.

Yes, but all that means is that a law which calls for a mandatory life sentence, giving the judge no leeway with regards to sentencing, is unconstitutional. It does NOT mean that LWOP for a minor is unconstitutional.

I think that's exactly what this evil kid is going to get. The DA would never agree to less in such a horrific case. And I'm pretty sure the jerk is going to fight and claim he's ill, etc.

BBM

If he were to plead guilty to one count of murder in exchange for having the other charges dropped, it could be a big deal for him.

_____________

I believe he is sick, but I personally believe that anybody who commits a crime like this is sick. What I don't believe is that he didn't know that his actions were wrong, which means that his "sickness" is really irrelevant (I think). I do think it's important to eventually figure out what causes people to become like him, but I also don't believe there's much that can be done for them once they do. I think it's too late for him, and whether his actions were caused by mental illness, brain damage, physical abnormalities or something else, he still needs to be held responsible for his actions. MOO

 

[MidwestMama]

Does anyone know what kind of event this picture was taken at? tia

It was taken at a car race.

 

[absentia]

There is so much talk about *advertiser censored*, but we don't even know if JR was molested. I just can't see *advertiser censored* sex jumping to murder and desacration. I am not saying it didn't, but to me sex addiction is a hormone imbalance. Am I wrong? I do realize that all the hormones work together so I guess an imbalance could send the whole mind into a tail spin. I don't think it starts with *advertiser censored*, but it starts with the reason for watching the *advertiser censored*. Am I making any sense? Hope so. JMO

I don't believe it was your run of the mill *advertiser censored*. it sounds like it was way beyond hardcore, what do they call it? *advertiser censored* with violence involving children and all that. sounds more like a violence against children addiction than a *advertiser censored* addiction.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Comparison with Austin wearing a cross, and the cross police released pics of:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...ew&current=Compare-Austin-wearing-a-cross.jpg
(it would blow the margins if added here)


Also: for anyone who is new to the case, here is an archive from Day 1 to now, updated as often as possible:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica Ridgeway -CO-/

 

[matou]

He seems so young to be in college already. Is 17 normal for a student to already have started a year at college in the US? TIA

 

[LotusPawprint]

I've always been told that SSRI's are super dangerous for people with mood disorders, it can send them spiraling in manic phases. I have no conclusive evidence and never really looked into it. I also have no idea what an SSRI feels like, just that they are easily dispensed from a GP and often without being assigned a psychotherapist. "Oh you're depressed? Here's Zoloft" Oh your kid has anxiety and isn't participating? Here's Paxil". That's been my take in what I've witnessed. Not saying all GP's are like that of course, but some are and often times I think people are pushed over the edge because it's not what they should be on. JMO.

I am NOT a pro or expert but a very close family member who I have helped support through a number of mental illnesses over a period of time has had some devastating experiences with SSRI's. The warnings on the SSRI's are standard -- in magazine ads and commercials for these drugs -- and the potential effects can be SCARY. My family member was put on a starter dose with her psychiatrist, we went back for her follow up a few weeks later and the pdoc did a quick evaluation and upped the dose, in response to my family member reporting no change in mood. I think the dose was doubled. Came back a few weeks later, no real change, so upped the dose again. Well she ended up MANIC as all heck. Typical manic symptoms, in a VERY short time frame, clearly med induced. Ended up hospitalized. I was freaked out for her and for my safety. The doctors in the hospital were horrified that a licensed psychiatrist would actually have someone go from 0 to xx whatever the dose was in that amount of time. It was reckless and rushed and there was no way her body could handle it. We ended up taking action which is another story but the SSRI danger can be REAL and the fact that psych pros can do that makes you wonder. In the years since that happened, we've talked to dozens of mental health professionals and they're all in complete shock that this pdoc did what she did. She did end up terminated at the practice she was at. And in teens, especially, that all has to be monitored thoroughly.

 

[absentia]

Research seems to indicate, however, that even someone with all the genetic dice stacked against them is not doomed to a life of crime.

Pensfan posted this link in the last thread:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

This is an NPR story about a neuroscientist who discovered that his brain scan is the same as those of the psychopaths he studies and that he has a gene variant known to be correlated with high aggression.

And yet he's a Ph.D researcher with a long, stable marriage, children, etc.

Why did he not turn out like his distant relative Lizzie Borden? He is convinced it is because he had a good childhood.

It seems to take 3 factors to turn a child into a psychopath: genes, brain abnormality and childhood violence. It's difficult to change your genes or the architecture of your brain but that still leaves childhood, which is under human control.

The NPR segment is well worth reading or listening to.

I also kind of think the type of intelligence and focus needed to be neuroscientist/researcher needs some kind of fuel, like an indirect aggression, to motivate them
it may be he was directed to use his particular brain power for good, instead of for violence.

 

[jbirddinky]

Statement of Rob Sigg, defendant's father:

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/10/25/murder-suspects-father-releases-statement/

I read an apology letter to JR's family and he sent a shout out to MS.
Wow! He was probably sipping on a margarita on the beach, in Mexico!
Great parenting!

 

[kkdj]

I'm so sorry to ask these questions but when LE said her body was not intact I never considered it being dismembered. I thought more of organs having been removed and eyeballs. So sorry to suggest this. Do we know what was found in the field and the condition of what was found? Were the organs intact?
Again, so sorry to mention this but I just can't stop thinking about them saying her body was not intact. They did not say dismembered. Bothers me.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I've always been told that SSRI's are super dangerous for people with mood disorders, it can send them spiraling in manic phases. I have no conclusive evidence and never really looked into it. I also have no idea what an SSRI feels like, just that they are easily dispensed from a GP and often without being assigned a psychotherapist. "Oh you're depressed? Here's Zoloft" Oh your kid has anxiety and isn't participating? Here's Paxil". That's been my take in what I've witnessed. Not saying all GP's are like that of course, but some are and often times I think people are pushed over the edge because it's not what they should be on. JMO.

I believe that some of your statements, especially regarding SSRIs, aren't quite right. Just from the perspective of someone who has studied these things as well as experienced them personally.

What IS super-dangerous is for medicines to be abused or carelessly used. This is not limited to SSRIs by any means.

 

[Wishbone]

on NG-classmate just said AS wore that cross around his neck everyday.