CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #20

[AstroKitty]

Brain injury or damage is being increasingly linked to this sort of violence.

If AS's father was a drug user then it is possible that his DNA was damaged before he was even conceived.

We may be seeing an increase in violent children because of damaged genetic material inherited from drug using parents of either sex.

AS may be another Alyssa Bustamante - just wanted to find out how it felt.

The wiring is wrong, and has been wrong since they came out of the womb...perhaps before they were even concieved. They just don't think like normal people, and perhaps it's because they physically can't.

Who is to blame if damaged DNA this is the cause of their deficiencies?

We need more research into the potential generational effects of long term drug abuse.

I have to agree with this. I love science and it's interesting to see studies of the brain, frontal lobe and pituitary gland. We learn so much from these areas. I'm from 2 addicts and my mother used while pregnant and I was weaned as an infant half heartily by physicians. I think it absolutely contributed to much of my emotional "issues" growing up and what I chose to do, because I was adopted and not raised at all in a household like I could have been. Although my bio parents are both deceased, and that is why I ended up adopted - I do not think they could have remained sober or stable to raise me. Their deaths were inevitable. It will be very telling to see what happens to meth babies and those born on methadone or suboxone. As it's more and more common.

I was born on opiates, so I know a little bit from a neurologist that treated me most of my life. I have issues with sleep and I lack the right amount of oxytocin (someone studying mental health should really look at that alone along with other hormones being deficient), so I suffer from anxiety as well. Just a bit of insider hell that I deal with

frontal lobe injuries do terrible things to people and take away their true personality at birth. When you learn how fragile that part of your brain is, it's scary to think about. And then there's shaken baby syndrome (provided they survive). Children who maybe were tossed or beaten but never treated.

Then there's of course R.A.D that without treatment slides into anti-social disorder which happens during the teen years and that leads to a budding psychopath or sociopath. Cognitive therapy and early detection is key but that has to align with parents that believe in therapy, or are not seeing things as a child being rebellious. So many stars have to align. Im by no means blaming parents at all, but often times we know later down the line there was a something amiss.

JMO of course. I hope I didn't offend someone (I seem to when I speak of mental issues), just wanted to elaborate on some personal thoughts and such.

 

[21merc7]

I'm not complaining about what's been posted here, but I was hoping for some clarification. TOS says you can't sleuth minors even if they are suspects, but does this mean that it's okay once they've been arrested? I was also wondering about sleuthing the family of suspects/perps; I've seen a lot of posts about the father and several about the mother and her financial problems etc. I guess what I'm asking is, at what point is it acceptable to sleuth these people? (I just like to know for future reference so I don't cross the line accidentally.)

TIA

We are not supposed to sleuth mom and dad as far as I know.

Can sleuth the perp.

A mod may intervene and lay down the rules for this particular issue, as a parent has been speaking to MSM and things go with that.

 

[TnVolsFan]

Was laying down with my little guy tonight and my heart broke knowing there are TWO families who will never be able to cuddle or snuggle their children like that again- granted one was probably way past the snuggling stage- but I know you all know what I mean.

Makes me so sad for both families.

 

[emmcee]

AS would have been a pretty crappy CSI. Why would someone who won forensic science awards and studied DNA leave DNA on the backpack/body, leave his cross at a crime scene and leave body parts and other evidence at his own home? I think that most murderers wouldn't make those mistakes, and most don't study criminal science!

Not mistakes, IMO. Looks to me as if he's making up his own real crime scene "game" - placing the backpack, cross, body parts, etc. as "clues" in his sick game. And don't most murderers think they're smarter than anyone else?

 

[lishac23]

And ITA with this as well, Kat!... In fact I demand that he get top notch counsel and receive a by the book, fair and just trial.. I would demand this for ARS!!

That way as you above mention once he does receive ethical, high esteemed defense counsel and a fair and just trial and then is found GUILTY of FIRST DEGREE MURDER of Jessica Ridgeway(among the other 4 charges) that we will not be seeing, nor hearing from his smug faced, egotistical evil self when the proverbial book is thrown at him with him having zero to whine, cry, and scream UNFAIR about!..

Put him in a deep, dark hole AND FORGET THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL EVER EVEN EXISTED IN OUR SOCIETY!!..<--that imo would be true punishment for this sick b@st@rd...TO FORGET ABOUT HIS EXISTENCE IN OUR SOCIETY!! :moo:
QUOTE]


Deep breath. The above sounds like the rational legal thing to do. Is there any chance that he would plead guilty? If the confession(s), DNA, remains IN HIS HOME, eyewitness ID's from the May jogger, and so on and so forth is turned over to his defense-- I guess it's worth it for AS to torment Jessica's family more. And his own. Maybe he'll see the toll his shenanigans (being kind) are taking on his own family. Or maybe he has no soul whatsoever and is enjoying this big game. Can anyone with a wild imagination think of a scenario where an unbelievably slimy but crafty defense attorney crawls out from some dark cave and brainwashes at least one juror to minimize the charges for this monster AS? It sounds ridiculous but I don't trust justice until it's stamped and in progress anymore. Have seen too many failed cases of justice before and this can't be another

Working for a lawyer....his opinion is the age card... the fact that he's only 17 is going to be a huge factor as well as mental state...

 

[northxnorthwest]

He missed class, but showed up on Tuesday, his usual self ... nothing to suggest that anything was wrong.

Yeah true, I know students skip class a lot but it just seemed so adamant by LE to look for people who were absent from work but not higher places of education - no one probably even noticed him absent as most college classes don't take attendance.

 

[otto]

YES. Obsession with *advertiser censored* can make one blur the lines between the two.

When I worked at the high school, we had a presentation by the local Vice Undercover Dept. which included a portion on 'internet torture *advertiser censored*.'

They showed us some of the things that were found on high school students laptops and cell phones.

[ trigger alert...don't read below if squeamish...]

They found lots of sick images like young girls tied up and forced to have sex with dogs, young boys and girls forced to have sex with each other while older teens directed them, images of teens being raped by men in masks at knifepoint, ....


THIS ^^^^ is what I mean when I refer to *advertiser censored* addiction. If a young man is watching images like that for 5, 6, 7, or 12 hours a day, what do you think happens to their mind? They lose their freakin minds, imo.

I would tend to agree ... there is no satiation point ... they keep looking for the better high, eventually finding snuff film ... and some cross the line to see whether the real thing is better than the computer depiction.

 

[cluciano63]

Sure, but Joran van der Sloot was 17 when he murdered Natalie Holloway. He was treated as a child by the courts, and as a result he was free to murder Stephanie Fores five years later, to the day.

Austin Sigg is not a victim any more than Joran van der Sloot was a victim.

Oh I think both should have been considered adults, no doubt about that. But I do see some irony in naming 17-year olds (or even 20+ year- olds, as some have done in the case of some of the POI's in Lauren Spierer) as children, something I see here often.

 

[otto]

I'm not complaining about what's been posted here, but I was hoping for some clarification. TOS says you can't sleuth minors even if they are suspects, but does this mean that it's okay once they've been arrested? I was also wondering about sleuthing the family of suspects/perps; I've seen a lot of posts about the father and several about the mother and her financial problems etc. I guess what I'm asking is, at what point is it acceptable to sleuth these people? (I just like to know for future reference so I don't cross the line accidentally.)

TIA

I'm assuming that if it's in main stream media, like the father's criminal history, then it's fair game.

 

[absentia]

Brain injury or damage is being increasingly linked to this sort of violence.

If AS's father was a drug user then it is possible that his DNA was damaged before he was even conceived.

We may be seeing an increase in violent children because of damaged genetic material inherited from drug using parents of either sex.

AS may be another Alyssa Bustamante - just wanted to find out how it felt.

The wiring is wrong, and has been wrong since they came out of the womb...perhaps before they were even concieved. They just don't think like normal people, and perhaps it's because they physically can't.

Who is to blame if damaged DNA this is the cause of their deficiencies?

We need more research into the potential generational effects of long term drug abuse.

And how about SSRI'S? there are loads of stories about kids and violence and SSRI's. or using SSRI's with other chemicals/drugs/rx's.
I think you're right about DNA damage from dad's drug use.
Alyssa Bustamante had some serious mood disorders, and I think I read she was on prozac. I don't buy the "just wanted to see what it feels like" excuse. It's just kids don't understand their own impulses. they don't understand what's really underlying their motives. they just know how they feel. It's more complicated than that.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Two things-

FIRST, I completely,sincerely apologize for referencing that possible removal of Jessica's body part. I thought it had come from a MSM link-I did not realize it was a rumor. I already removed it from my post and I'm seriously embarrassed. I should have taken the time to confirm. That post I made was in the heat of anger and I wasn't as cautious as I normally am. Sorry for any confusion or turmoil that may have caused here.

Second-PLEASE do not go on the darknet! I only went there after consulting an attorney and taking many, many precautions to ensure I didn't inadvertently do something illegal. Plus, TOR can seriously mess up your computer. Don't do it. I'm sorry if I put that idea in anyone's head!

:grouphug:

Girl, do NOT worry. Least not on my account. Ima skeered to go to bad places.

I had never heard of such a thing until that sick **ck, Luka. I read enough to know that I am juuuuust fine if I miss out on that adventure.

To be honest, I also seldom click on FB links or read the comments on news articles. Some of it's laziness, some of it is the desire to stay focused on what "is" and not what "if". Although I don't imagine I'd ever be scarred by comments on a FB page, I am certain I might be sidelined by them.

Doesn't mean I pretend the dangers are not out there, just means I have FAITH that they are there and faith is believing without having to see the proof.

Hats off to folks like you who have the fortitude to "go there". I trust your warnings!

 

[lishac23]

Yeah I dont like that they are stalling on this either. I mean we have had 12 and 14 year olds tried as adults, why not 17. And to only be able to get the max of 40 years is insane in my book..

IMO, he'll be tried as an adult. The stalling is to make the "hype" go away. We care but unfortunately, Jessica's story will be replaced by another "BOMBSHELL" and people will begin to forget. If they stall long enough, you'll get jurors two years from now who will have no idea who he is. They'll dress him young and innocent and portray him as some poor naive young man who "made a horrible mistake".... or something like that.

 

[LotusPawprint]

the killer of Somer Thompson pled guilty to avoid the death penalty.

I hope AS pleads guilty, although there is not much to offer him, is there, for pleading guilty?

I don't think the community needs the expense or the horror of a trial. The Ridgeways certainly do not need to have this drag on forever.

It will be interesting if Dad provides an attorney. One for this kind of case would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, is my guess.

I thought of Somer early on after Jessica went missing when everyone started wearing Jessica's favorite color (and Somer's). Purple. I'll never forget the prayer vigils for Somer and the most heartwrenching plea Diena made, which makes me break down everytime (NOW) still. Sea of purple. Seas of purple for Jessica too. They should never have had anything else in common other than purple and happy childhoods.

It would be "interesting" if dad paid for an attorney. I'm going to bite my tongue now.. I believe what would've come out next would be snark. Or snark-ish. :shush:

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Seems to me that would be a flawed study, research on decomp of skinned rats. Wonder if he has had any problems with cruelty to small animals??

I hope not. Again, I do animal research. I might just be kidding myself but I have done everything in my power to make what I do as humane as possible, and every time I handle a rat I say a prayer to his spirit because in a way I do wonder what makes humans soooo special that it is ok to sacrifice so many animal lives for the sake of saving or improving human lives.

...sorry, o/t.

Can u tell I've thought about it a lot?

 

[izzyblizzy]

We are not supposed to sleuth mom and dad as far as I know.

Can sleuth the perp.

A mod may intervene and lay down the rules for this particular issue, as a parent has been speaking to MSM and things go with that.

Ooops ... mea culpa. I think I started this whole thing about his dad's property when someone questioned how he could go to the Virgin Islands and I immediately thought his dad could afford that trip!

I wasn't trying to sleuth, just reporting what I saw on a MSM TV source in Denver! So I beg forgiveness.

 

[b2alicia]

Yep. There have been many cases of people just going onto "the dark net" for curiosity sake and they have ended up with child *advertiser censored* charges, etc. All it takes is you clicking the wrong link, downloading the wrong folder (really shouldn't download anything as it could be ANYTHING).

I read about this somewhere but you should NEVER download folders full of jpegs/photos as many times LE organizations will "trace" certain photos (child *advertiser censored*, gore, violence, sex crimes, weapons, etc) and they will be distributed (not sure if correct term) randomly and may be in a folder you downloaded and you may have looked through some of the photos but never clicked on say a child *advertiser censored* image - on your computer it will show that you may have never opened it but the fact that it is ON your computer somewhere even if you "didn't know" you'll get slapped with a CP charge and be hauled off to jail. I read about a teenager who accidentally downloaded a folder of images that had 1 photo of CP in it (there was also a copy of it so it ended up being 2 counts of possession of child *advertiser censored*) even though he didn't know anything about it and now he is a register sex offender and there is no way to get out of it even though he could prove in court that he never actually viewed or opened the image in the first place.

but yeah like everyone is saying STAY OFF that part of the internet, leave it to the computer forensic experts/hackers to sleuth - they have more resources and know what they are doing. I would love to see more work done by "anonymous" to expose pedophiles and stop child *advertiser censored* from being distributed though.

Completely O/T...
Empire Strikes Back was on cable for the thousandth time a couple of days ago. Yoda says, "Luke! Beware the dark side!"

Sorry. This dark net sounds horrible, and I shouldn't make light of it. I will definitely stay away.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I think it's a leap to say watching *advertiser censored* will lead to an addiction to *advertiser censored* and/or will then lead to violence. Ditto video games and every other thing that gets brought up as people try to make sense of that which makes no sense. Does it happen sometimes? Yes. It happens in individuals who are predisposed to being violent anyway. If not one thing it would be another.

Everyone wants to know why, and wants to point a finger somewhere. It has to be someone's fault, just has to! But there are no simple or pat answers. You can't make sense of something like this. This kid has brain wiring and a structure and environment around him that created a perfect storm of evil. He is someone who will need to be studied by experts. It will never "make sense." I don't know how something like this can be prevented because most parents, most of the time, think their sons and daughters are wonderful and good and cannot conceive of this--that comes up over and over in cases where the perp is under 21.

As an aside, if this 17 year old were a murder victim instead of the perp, he'd be referred to as a "child" or a "baby" by many folks. I personally find that ironic.

IMO its a leap to say that those of us who have broached the discussion of what IMO is quite the obvious...EXCESSIVE NEGATIVE ANYTHING = NEGATIVE IMPACT.. and that absolutely particular media such as games, *advertiser censored*, interactive playgrounds that contain extremely violent, deviant and sexually explicit content when viewed and participated in EXCESSIVELY very much do have very NEGATIVE IMPACTS..

So IMO to make the leap that it somehow equates us blaming these type media or stating that it is these type medias that create or make sadistic predators is just not even remotely accurate.. Its just false.. It is NOT being stated that EXCESSIVE INVOLVEMENT IN EXTREMELY VIOLENT, DEVIANT, AND SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MEDIA "creates" sadistic predatory monsters such as IMO ARS is.. It does not create or make these individuals monsters..that issue obviously goes much deeper(and has also been thoroughly discussed alongside negative impacts of excessively explicit media)..

But IMO to deny that these negative impacts are not real, not valid, and just simply over exaggerated opinions is IMO just plain turning a complete blind eye to the truth..that truth being that absolutely these type excessive immersions into these worlds of extremely violent, sexually explicit including acts of torture, binding, and rape of males/females of ALL AGES(small children-adults) are ABSOLUTELY CONTRIBUTING FACTORS of predatory killers, rapists, etc..

Again when looked at simply on the basis that excessive use or involvement of anything negative = negative consequences and impacts, period.. Imo its a blatant denial or turning a blind eye to what is absolutely ONE OF MANY contributing factors that are found time and time again to have a strong place and influence in sadistic, predatory offenders backgrounds..

No one is making a claim that *advertiser censored* and video games creates and makes predatory criminals and imo its far more than a leap to proclaim that nonsense is what any of us are stating.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I think it's a leap to say watching *advertiser censored* will lead to an addiction to *advertiser censored* and/or will then lead to violence. Ditto video games and every other thing that gets brought up as people try to make sense of that which makes no sense. Does it happen sometimes? Yes. It happens in individuals who are predisposed to being violent anyway. If not one thing it would be another.

Everyone wants to know why, and wants to point a finger somewhere. It has to be someone's fault, just has to! But there are no simple or pat answers. You can't make sense of something like this. This kid has brain wiring and a structure and environment around him that created a perfect storm of evil. He is someone who will need to be studied by experts. It will never "make sense." I don't know how something like this can be prevented because most parents, most of the time, think their sons and daughters are wonderful and good and cannot conceive of this--that comes up over and over in cases where the perp is under 21.

As an aside, if this 17 year old were a murder victim instead of the perp, he'd be referred to as a "child" or a "baby" by many folks. I personally find that ironic.

BBM

How is that ironic? If he were a murder victim he would be a sympathetic person, a.....victim. And a tragic victim because of his tender age.

But as he is a vile, sick, predatory killer, his age is a non-issue. He is monstrous. Period. End of sentence.

Not ironic in the least.

 

[AstroKitty]

And how about SSRI'S? there are loads of stories about kids and violence and SSRI's. or using SSRI's with other chemicals/drugs/rx's.
I think you're right about DNA damage from dad's drug use.
Alyssa Bustamante had some serious mood disorders, and I think I read she was on prozac. I don't buy the "just wanted to see what it feels like" excuse. It's just kids don't understand their own impulses. they don't understand what's really underlying their motives. they just know how they feel. It's more complicated than that.

I've always been told that SSRI's are super dangerous for people with mood disorders, it can send them spiraling in manic phases. I have no conclusive evidence and never really looked into it. I also have no idea what an SSRI feels like, just that they are easily dispensed from a GP and often without being assigned a psychotherapist. "Oh you're depressed? Here's Zoloft" Oh your kid has anxiety and isn't participating? Here's Paxil". That's been my take in what I've witnessed. Not saying all GP's are like that of course, but some are and often times I think people are pushed over the edge because it's not what they should be on. JMO.

 

[absentia]

Was laying down with my little guy tonight and my heart broke knowing there are TWO families who will never be able to cuddle or snuggle their children like that again- granted one was probably way past the snuggling stage- but I know you all know what I mean.

Makes me so sad for both families.

you have more compassion than I do. my heart breaks for Jessica's family. when I kiss my DD's head, I send wishes that Jessica's mom can feel the feeling of kissing her own DD's head once again.
BUT, although I understand the anguish AS' family must feel, and I don't *blame* them, I do feel that they in some way did not prevent this from happening. they did not do what was required to prevent AS from becoming what he became. or to prevent him from acting on it (committed to institution).