CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #17 *ARREST*

[MsJosie]

Also, don't children draw a monthly stipend from Social Security when a parent dies?

In Illinois, many years ago, my mother filed on my brothers behalf when my dad died. It would have to be a legal guardian with ALL the paperwork. In fact, getting a lawyer involved would be best in dealing with SS. They do not like lawyers then or now.

 

[The Farm]

You don't have to hike up a mountain. You can drive up a mountain and throw a body off the side. There are plenty of places were there is a long drop-off right off the side of the road. I've included a picture as an example. Lots and lots and lots of places to do this. Animals would take care of the body before it could be found.

That is correct and even if animals did not take care of it chances are it still might not be found because some of those areas hikers do not even go.

 

[Mimi in London]

MOO

His possible thoughts when planning disposal:

• His preference would be that she’d never be found
• However, in case the body is discovered one day, it should look like suicide or mishap
• Mutilation would therefore not work
• Burial, similarly, would scream murder. And his door would be the first one the police would come knocking at.
• A field somewhere? Feasible. She could have wandered off and frozen to death (she wouldn’t be the first).
• A steep drop? Better still. In the unlikely event of a body being discovered, something like a broken neck might be consistent with a fall.

This leads me to ask:

• Is there anything else, other than tissue or significant blood loss, that could have indicated the presence of death in her house the night it was searched?

 

[mickey2942]

Also, don't children draw a monthly stipend from Social Security when a parent dies?

Only if income eligible. If PF has income of $94,000, the child would not be eligible for benefits from Social Security, as PF, as parent, would not qualify.

But, if the child is living with a Grandmother, not parent, the income is not a consideration, and now, would be eligible.

It is confusing. And variables change the equation constantly.

 

[BingoBongo]

That was my initial feeling here, but that scenario is all but destroyed by the fact that he atleast attempted to hire someone to kill her.

Rage murders (sole motive) are generally committed by the person who is angry, and not by a hitman acting on his behalf.

The very act of reaching out, even if he did do this himself (which I believe), makes this unlikely for me.

Not always. There is immediate and violent rage, then there is the cold and calculating rage. I think the cold/calculating is even more evil as they relish the idea, toy with it, and get their jollies from it.

Do we know for a fact that he attempted to hire someone? We know that LE has said someone else is involved, but was it someone who PF asked, or hired, to harm her? Or was it someone who he wanted to be an accomplice by other means?

 

[MassGuy]

MOO

His possible thoughts when planning disposal:

• His preference would be that she’d never be found
• However, in case the body is discovered one day, it should look like suicide or mishap
• Mutilation would therefore not work
• Burial, similarly, would scream murder. And his door would be the first one the police would come knocking at.
• A field somewhere? Feasible. She could have wandered off and frozen to death (she wouldn’t be the first).
• A steep drop? Better still. In the unlikely event of a body being discovered, something like a broken neck might be consistent with a fall.

This leads me to ask:

• Is there anything else, other than tissue or significant blood loss, that could have indicated the presence of death in her house the night it was searched?

I don’t think he would have staged her death, or been concerned about the condition of her body, in any way.

I think his goal was to make sure she’d never be found, and time will tell if he succeeded.

I get the impression that the reason they believe she is dead, and the reason they believe she was killed in that house, is physical evidence.

This has to be forensic in nature, and I cannot imagine that it’s not blood evidence.

I can’t think of any other type of physical evidence, that would lend itself to this conclusion.

 

[MsBetsy]

Given that he premeditated this and had time to try and solicite the job to be done, I can’t imagine that is the case at all. I don’t know KB but I believe she would have taken immediate action to protect her daughter. That would have been as easy as calling 911 and taking her to the ER for an exam. The very next day a temporary court order would be made restraining him from any sort of contact. She wouldn’t have given him the chance to hurt the baby again, but he had time to plan her death. Even if he had only planned it for a day or two, 911 and the hospital were open. Courts were open the days prior to Thanksgiving. I highly doubt she’d be having happy chats with her mom and baking cinnamon rolls if that was going on.

It may not have been something to warrant a call to 911 or an emergency room visit, if it's true that she discovered something that would keep him from getting custody. It could be his lifestyle, his habits, he could be a heavy drinker, a drug user, he may have been promiscuous or lost control often or made other bad choices that could effect his parenting skills. These things need to be proven in court.
There may very well have been a reason for her to believe that he shouldn't have custody of the child, and maybe she confronted him with it. Imo

 

[v0x]

On now: Livestream | KOAA.com

Nm. Segment was only a matter of seconds and included no new info.

 

[MassGuy]

Not always. There is immediate and violent rage, then there is the cold and calculating rage. I think the cold/calculating is even more evil as they relish the idea, toy with it, and get their jollies from it.

That absolutely happens, but there is usually some other motive that accompanies it, especially in a domestic type situation.

There is usually a precipitating conflict, and this doesn’t come out of nowhere. As of now, we don’t see any evidence that this type of thing existed.

There may have been anger, but I’m not convinced that was the driving force.

 

[Jupiter05]

Watching the livestream now. They said there’d be an update on the interview with the man that said Frazee was a professional, and a good dad earlier today...

Livestream | KOAA.com

We heard that about Chris Watts. And look what happened!

 

[SandyQLS]

MOO

His possible thoughts when planning disposal:

• His preference would be that she’d never be found
• However, in case the body is discovered one day, it should look like suicide or mishap
• Mutilation would therefore not work
• Burial, similarly, would scream murder. And his door would be the first one the police would come knocking at.
• A field somewhere? Feasible. She could have wandered off and frozen to death (she wouldn’t be the first).
• A steep drop? Better still. In the unlikely event of a body being discovered, something like a broken neck might be consistent with a fall.

This leads me to ask:

• Is there anything else, other than tissue or significant blood loss, that could have indicated the presence of death in her house the night it was searched?

Great post. Good ideas. KB liked to hike. Some women put their normal small purse inside their backpack and then add items like a water bottle. A blow to the head versus fall off a cliff might be difficult to distinguish.

Someone previously posted photos or film as proof of death in lieu of biological material. I am not sure that would be enough though since it could be staged.

 

[BingoBongo]

I don’t think he would have staged her death, or been concerned about the condition of her body, in any way.

I think his goal was to make sure she’d never be found, and time will tell if he succeeded.

I get the impression that the reason they believe she is dead, and the reason they believe she was killed in that house, is physical evidence.

This has to be forensic in nature, and I cannot imagine that it’s not blood evidence.

I can’t think of any other type of physical evidence, that would lend itself to this conclusion.

Reading this made me wonder - has anyone heard anything about video security in her home? Maybe she had an un-obvious means of monitoring her home that was only recently discovered. PF may not have known about it. Maybe they got him on tape? Lordy, I hope so!

 

[Jupiter05]

Thanks for the input. I’m not familiar with him. Hadn’t followed the CW case. Last time I was here was the Susan Powell case.

There are many you tube channels that jump on the current cases to get more subscribers. The amount of misinformation out there is sad. Even, as we have seen, from MSM broadcasts. I am pretty much relying on the official LE sites for accurate information. Gossip is fun, but not the truth unless it can be sourced.

 

[Irmese]

.

I was skewered a few threads ago when I suggested that he might be a good father.

I think killing the mother of your child makes you a bad father. I would think he feels like K is his property. In my experience, men often try to get child custody because it is cheaper than paying support to the mother and because it is a way to have control over the mother. Usually, they have cheap or free built-in childcare (their mother, new wife or gf, etc.). On the scale of bad dads, he's better than CW.

 

[dkryder]

True, but I'm working from the standpoint that he didn't want the child either. Maybe it's the way he carried her, or that he constantly used her as a buffer or just his general detached behavior, but I don't believe he cared for the child any more than he cared for Kelsey.

i kinda thought the same when i saw news footage of him getting into his truck front door holding the baby. i can't remember ever seeing someone doing that. what i've always seen is the child is secured in a child seat via a different door and then the person gets in the drivers seat. i'm not a parent so i have no personal experience with transporting a toddler via a car so it may happen all the time, i have just never seen it before that news clip.

 

[MassGuy]

Reading this made me wonder - has anyone heard anything about video security in her home? Maybe she had an un-obvious means of monitoring her home that was only recently discovered. PF may not have known about it. Maybe they got him on tape? Lordy, I hope so!

That would be great, but I find it doubtful, atleast in regards to capturing clear evidence of murder on tape.

The evidence that clinched this for them in regards to her being dead, appears to have been discovered just prior to, or during, that last search.

Either lab results from previous searches came back, or an informant provided information that they were able to verify inside that home.

They knew where to look this time.

 

[Jupiter05]

That is correct and even if animals did not take care of it chances are it still might not be found because some of those areas hikers do not even go.

There have been cases where even if the body was dumped in a remote area and there have been scavengers, the body has been identified by bones and clothing. IMO they have some evidence they have not revealed. IMO some witnesses have come forward. I am glad they are holding evidence close and I am willing to wait so that this case is open and shut.

 

[MsBetsy]

I really hope I'm wrong about this.
It is possible she didn't say anything to her mother because she was looking for more evidence.
PF is one gigantic red flag in every way.

moo

I think it's possible. I also think she may have been reluctant to tell her because she knew she would be worried and concerned and didn't want to upset her. Maybe she was beginning to realize what kind of person he was, and found something out in particular, but just wasn't ready to tell her yet.
I think they could have had a close relationship but that doesn't mean Kelsey may not have been reserved about talking to her mom about her relationship. I think it's hard to tell your mom the guy who is the father of your child is a complete idiot. Imo

 

[NanZDrew]

Interesting. Perhaps I missed the mark with my statement.

I was chatting with my single cousin recently. She’s 27, no children. She’s very career focused, enjoys her traveling and freedom. She met a nice guy at a cookout over the summer but had a hard time with his very young son. There was also a dynamic with the child’s mom that caused stress to their relationship.

She stepped away from the relationship because of how she felt and it was not fair for any of them. This was one of the reasons for my comment.

Her reaction was not unusual. The dynamics with the other parent can be difficult. There can be many challenges being a stepparent.

 

[v0x]

We heard that about Chris Watts. And look what happened!

I’m sure it’s been said about many accused and/or convicted of murder. It’s pretty much cliché. But when they said “more at 5pm” I assumed it’d be more than a 10second segment!

Not unlike you tubers trying to get more subscribers, msm local news is always trying to get more viewers I suppose.