CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #17 *ARREST*

[Charlot123]

<modsnipped quoted post>

My older son was fully speaking by one and has memories from even earlier times. Myself, I have the first memory dating back to 10 months of age, but I was also an early talker (I read somewhere that we form first memories when we start talking, not sure who did the studies, though). However, these memories are incredibly disjointed. In short, who knows, and I hope baby K forgot. Maybe she thought parents were "playing" and did not feel the horror of the situation, I surely hope so.

 

[moonlessnight]

I imagine he claimed the property was his and his "elderly or disabled" mom lived with him. Big surprise when she discovers he lives in mom's house. Sounds like her family got her a safe place to live asap.

Thank you! This answers many questions, and should probably be something like post #2 in the next thread.

Is it possible that he did manipulate her into believing that he was a rancher with vast lands, and she gave up her job to live with the online man from Colorado? When she arrived, she realized that mom lived at his house, and so she found another place to live? Then she found out that he lived at mom's house, but by then she was pregnant?

Something seems off about this entire story. Did he want a baby and she was lured?

 

[otto]

I'm guilty of not keeping up..If that's the case, why didn't that person or persons come forward sooner ....

Why didn't the person who was solicited come forward sooner? It kind of looks like the solicited person might live in Idaho and might know something about the phone.

Why does anyone avoid being connected with an unsolved murder?

 

[Hazelnutty]

My older son was fully speaking by one and has memories from even earlier times. Myself, I have the first memory dating back to 10 months of age, but I was also an early talker (I read somewhere that we form first memories when we start talking, not sure who did the studies, though). However, these memories are incredibly disjointed. In short, who knows, and I hope baby K forgot. Maybe she thought parents were "playing" and did not feel the horror of the situation, I surely hope so.

My Goodness! Fully speaking at one year old is amazing! Just amazing.

I pray that Baby K doesn't remember anything about her father hurting her mother. That is, if she saw or heard anything relating to abuse or death of her Mom.

 

[Charlot123]

Why didn't the person who was solicited come forward sooner? It kind of looks like the solicited person might live in Idaho and might know something about the phone.

Why does anyone avoid being connected with an unsolved murder?

Fear. They think that the person might not be helped, and as to themselves...

Remembering Amber Frey who was incredibly helpful to the investigation of SP?

Even she had to take a polygraph. And she truly risked when she was taping their conversations. She helped them.

I think people are scared of what they have to go through to prove their innocence.

P.S. I just remembered. People who have prior "experience" with the law often show mistrust. "Why talk to the police anyhow? They are always mining for information". This attitude is seldom met in people without any legal history. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

My Goodness! Fully speaking at one year old is amazing! Just amazing.

I pray that Baby K doesn't remember anything about her father hurting her mother. That is, if she saw or heard anything relating to abuse or death of her Mom.

Her life is going to be difficult anyhow. PF never thought that his child, one day, would be told that her dad had killed her mom, did he? That she will have to process all of it? Live with the knowledge?

I hope they (KB's relatives) adopt her and change her name. Although even this will be not enough to protect her, nowadays.

MOO only.

 

[otto]

I've dated loads of men who live with and/or take care of their moms or family members. My last SO took care of his grandma and his mom rented the second part of his townhome. To me it's a really good quality in many ways, to take care of someone or do obligations or help the family etc. It's endearing in many ways and shows a lot of respectful qualities IMO.

Mother issues on the other hand? I think we all have those! Anyway, As a lady, a guy living with his mom wouldn't initially turn me off at all, and I would probably need to see the dynamic before entering a relationship, but sometimes if you like the guy even that doesn't matter! IDK, MOO.

In this case it must have mattered because although Kelsey moved close to PF, she did not live with him because he lived with his mother (per her uncle). He did not live with her because he lived with his mother. They had a child together and destroyed their lives over the child or the mother.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Ha! Lets hope they can build a strong enough case that he sees the writing on the wall. I wouldn't bet on that though.

Then again, I never thought that Chris Watts would plea, so you never know.

Watts was a clear cut Death Penalty case. Not to mention that 2 young children were involved. He got a sweetheart deal, IMO. Now he gets to stay alive and receive love letters from pathetic women, when he should be at the bottom of a full oil drum, like his victims.

Perhaps this guy thinks he did a better job disposing of the body, or that the evidence is not strong enough against him. Plenty of circumstantial stuff though.

 

[Charlot123]

Watts was a clear cut Death Penalty case. Not to mention that 2 young children were involved. He got a sweetheart deal, IMO. Now he gets to stay alive and receive love letters from pathetic women, when he should be at the bottom of a full oil drum, like his victims.

Perhaps this guy thinks he did a better job disposing of the body, or that the evidence is not strong enough against him. Plenty of circumstantial stuff though.

Personally, I don't care what happens to all these murderers of wives and children, but from what I understand, their "life" is cheaper on taxpayers than their "death", so whatever is easier on us.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Colleague: Patrick Frazee is professional, a good father

'On top of that, he said Frazee is a good father.

“He took real good care of her (Kaylee). I mean, he had a little jumpsuit for her and put extra socks on her,” Cline said.'

Well, if he put extra socks on his daughter, that changes my whole opinion of him for sure.

 

[jillianelaine]

Why didn't the person who was solicited come forward sooner? It kind of looks like the solicited person might live in Idaho and might know something about the phone.

Why does anyone avoid being connected with an unsolved murder?

At this point, we don't know WHEN the person who was solicited came forward. Or IF he came forward. Did LE reach out to him, or he to LE? If he didn't take the solicitation seriously, he may have come forward AFTER the story went public. Or after the posted reward. In light of how swiftly the charges came, IMO he went to LE with incriminating evidence. IMO he played a role in covering up the crime. IMO he believed his best option was to contact them before they contacted him. And I believed it worked. (I'm with you--Idaho and knowledge about the phone--perhaps even possession)

 

[Charlot123]

'On top of that, he said Frazee is a good father.

“He took real good care of her (Kaylee). I mean, he had a little jumpsuit for her and put extra socks on her,” Cline said.'

Well, if he put extra socks on his daughter, that changes my whole opinion of him for sure.

Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer, was an amazing worker who was never late for his work. And his neighbors kept the fondest memories of him.

Ted Bundy was volunteering at suicide hotline, such an upstanding, model citizen.

 

[gngr~snap]

I've seen the photos of her place. Does anyone think he or someone could have pushed her or hung her from the loft? Did it have a bannister or a pony wall?
Moo

 

[jillianelaine]

It’s been suggested before on these threads that he may have been selling her a bill of goods like “my mom is currently living with me on my ranch” or “I’m taking care of my mom right now, but I’m working to get her into an assisted living community” or something along those lines.

Most (sane) people wouldn’t question assertions like that because most (sane) people wouldn’t lie about things like that.

And most young women don’t have a community of sleuthers to suss out those lies so quickly.

Maybe we place too much emphasis on how KB perceived the notion that he was "living with his mom". She may have had a circuit of friends who tended to live at home until they married, and for that reason, didn't think twice about it. She may have been focused on how he looked, and shared interests, and the nice things he may have said to her. She may have been intrigued that he was from another state. Or intrigued with the very thought of having met someone on the computer.

 

[jillianelaine]

What is your take on PF being arrested coming down his road?

If he did not have possession of a small child, would he have been apprehended so soon?

I don't know this time line. Did she move here for him or for the job?

When I asked this same question I was informed that a family member stated that she looked for a job there to be closer to him.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe we place too much emphasis on how KB perceived the notion that he was "living with his mom". She may have had a circuit of friends who tended to live at home until they married, and for that reason, didn't think twice about it. She may have been focused on how he looked, and shared interests, and the nice things he may have said to her. She may have been intrigued that he was from another state. Or intrigued with the very thought of having met someone on the computer.

I can imagine that it might look positive, him living with the mom. Mom is disabled, he is helping her, as a good kid. Maybe he even told KB that he also had dreamed of becoming a pilot, but had to forgo the dream because mom needed help? It all might have looked positively, you know. It all depends on how one presents it.

In short, KB might have seen PF as "kind" and "dependable".

P.S. And the main thing - look at the photos and videos of SP, CW, and now, PF.

They look like "nice guys"! This is it. Also, they were all described as "soft-spoken"! And I bet they came across as the nicest people ever.

Think of this, a woman will never plan to have a kid with someone she perceives as a murderer. Differences aside, LP, SW and KB all wanted to have kids with these guys. They looked dependable, kind, rock solid.

 

[Niner]

Thursday, Dec. 27th:
*Temporary Custody Hearing (@ 1pm MT) - CO – Kelsey Berreth (29) (last seen Nov. 22, 2018, Woodland Park; phone pinged 800 miles away in Gooding, Idaho on 11/25/18 @ 5:13pm, reported missing Dec. 2, 2018) – Patrick Michael Frazee (32) “fiancé” arrested & charged (12/21/18) with 1st degree murder & solicitation of 1st degree murder. Held without bond.
Was a suspect as of 12/15/18. Search warrant executed 12/14/18. Search & arrest warrants are sealed. The little girl, who had been staying with her dad up until his arrest, is now in protective custody & will be reunited with Berreth’s family.
12/21/18 Hearing on Advisement; first appearance hearing set for 12/31/18.
12/22/18 Temporary Custody hearing for child on 12/27/18.
12/24/18: Defense has filed a motion to limit the release of information about the case before it goes to trial. His attorneys cite “massive pre-indictment and pretrial negative publicity.” Prosecutors are fighting to have the motion denied without a hearing. Motion has been denied re a request to limit pretrial publicity. Other motions filed:
P-4 People’s Response to Defendant’s Notice of Invocation of all Statutory, Case Law, and Constitutional Privileges
P-3 People’s Response to Defendant’s Motion for Preservation of Physical Evidence
P-2 People’s Response to Defendant’s Notice of Representation and Demand for Notice of any Pre-Trial Nontestimonial Identification Procedure Sought Pursuant to Crim. P.41.1
P-1 People’s Response to Defendant’s Motion for Preservation and Production of Law Enforcement Notes, Recordings, and Other Evidence
D-004 Notice of Invocation of all Statutory, Case Law, and Constitutional Privileges
D-002 Notice of Representation and Demand for Notice of any Nontestimonial Identification Procedure Sought Pursuant to Crim. P.41.1
CTO-02 Decorum Order

 

[justpeachy22]

I find it coincidental that she disappeared/was murdered days before the scheduled custody hearing. He and his mama raised that baby girl and they knew the hearing was likely to go in KB’s favor. And here’s where the premeditation comes into play.

 

[jillianelaine]

I think the solicitation charge caught us all off guard and sort of messed up our theories. Although I think many figured that if the Idaho cell ping was real there must have been some help after the fact. Ultimately we will have to wait to see how the evidence pans out. And it could very well be that when formal charges are announced by the prosecutor and the arraignment is held that the solicitation charge goes away, or is changed to "assessor y" or "conspiracy."

Assuming the individual solicited for murder ultimately played a role in a cover up...

Why did he agree to help? Did he feel obligated? Why did he feel obligated?

And why did PF trust that this individual wouldn't report the solicitation?

Did they share an interest in having her silenced?

If so, why/what?

 

[Elley Mae]

The judge granted the prosecution's request that Frazee have no contact with any witness or anyone else named in the sealed arrest affidavit, with the exception of his family.

Patrick Frazee arrested in missing CO mom case