CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #19 *ARREST*

[BingoBongo]

From my past experience dealing with a suspected narcissistic
psychopath (IMO), the trigger can be something as simple as
disagreeing with them, or taking a stand that they disagree with,
or doing something that in their eyes and fragile ego- makes
them look bad to others.
It doesn't need to be a big deal. Small things can set them off.
And usually RAGE follows. It becomes their habit. It's how
they get their way and control things and PEOPLE in their life.
This behavior works for them. My guess is PF treated his
mother the same way and she complied with him because it
was easier than bucking him. She needed his help on the
property and he needed the free ride he got from her.
It becomes a sick symbiotic relationship.
KB did not follow his plan. KB bucked his system and she
paid the ultimate price.
Our prisons are full of PF's.

I read a study some time ago (will look for it later) in regards to extreme narcissism and prison inmates. Amazing, and scary.

Interesting paper here on homicidal narcissists:

https://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/vie...ttpsredir=1&article=3525&context=utk_graddiss

And the study was done based on inmates via the CO Dept. of Corrections.

Conclusion - it's complicated. ;-)

"In conclusion, it is evident from the results of this study that personality variables, by themselves, cannot explain the difference between a nonviolent, violent, or homicidal offender. With this in mind, one must examine the possible answers to the problem of differentiating the groups. In regard to murder, it would appear that homicide is a multifactor process involving psychological variables as well as non-psychological variables, such as situational factors. The situational factors can be too numerous to count, and therefore, differentiating these groups by the use of psychological factors, such as personality, can be limited. All factors including personality should be incorporated when examining and predicting violence. It would appear from this study and others like it that violence involves personality types that are not pure but an amalgamation of features and traits of different personalities"

 

[susiQ]

I don't think he would have taken it to Idaho himself. It would have taken too long and someone would have likely known about it. I don't think he would have taken the risk. Imo

I agree. I don't see him taking that risk although I suspect he has a "friend" in Idaho around Twin Falls that would

 

[BingoBongo]

From my past experience dealing with a suspected narcissistic
psychopath (IMO), the trigger can be something as simple as
disagreeing with them, or taking a stand that they disagree with,
or doing something that in their eyes and fragile ego- makes
them look bad to others.
It doesn't need to be a big deal. Small things can set them off.
And usually RAGE follows. It becomes their habit. It's how
they get their way and control things and PEOPLE in their life.
This behavior works for them. My guess is PF treated his
mother the same way and she complied with him because it
was easier than bucking him. She needed his help on the
property and he needed the free ride he got from her.
It becomes a sick symbiotic relationship.
KB did not follow his plan. KB bucked his system and she
paid the ultimate price.
Our prisons are full of PF's.

Yes! And they will go from 0 to 60 in seconds! I've watched seemingly complacent individual's face transform from angelic to dangerously angry child in seconds...and based on what most would consider an inconsequential reason.

Some lash out physically almost immediately, some simmer. In my experience, it's the simmer that is the most dangerous.

 

[PommyMommy]

"A court record indicates that Berreth was killed on Thanksgiving, the day she was last seen."
Kelsey Berreth believed dead, fiance arrested, reports say

I don't doubt at all that Kelsey was killed on Thanksgiving but I'd like to see the court record they reference if it exists. I've not been able to find it.
MOO

 

[Mom24]

I don't doubt at all that Kelsey was killed on Thanksgiving but I'd like to see the court record they reference if it exists. I've not been able to find it.
MOO

Have any of the court records you've read indicated a date when Kelsey was killed? You know how newspapers can try to be succinct and mix up important details. (not like we haven't seen this at least a few times in this case alone)

 

[PommyMommy]

Have any of the court records you've read indicated a date when Kelsey was killed? You know how newspapers can try to be succinct and mix up important details. (not like we haven't seen this at least a few times in this case alone)

No, I would expect to see that in the arrest warrant which is sealed. So it makes me wonder about that reporting.
MOO

 

[Trudie]

We don’t know much about PF at all really, as far as what he would be like in Kelsey’s eyes. She was with him for over two years, a significant relationship. Whether she was mulling over moving nearer to her family, or something, or considering a job transfer, etc obviously there a reason for PF to come to the conclusion, allegedly, that in order to keep what he wanted (the baby imo)she had to be out of the picture forever. And I doubt it was as simple as another woman, couples split all the time and still share kids.

I think we will be waiting until trial to get an idea of what really happened...maybe not even then if he never talks. It may all be theory as far as the “why” that we hear in court.

Jmo

I was just thinking “will PF ever talk”, I don’t think so. I think he’s going to be like Scott P., never confess, accept the punishment handed down, if there is one.
Things are very dif’, for example consider SP & CW. CW is a confessed killer. SP is a “wrongly convicted death row inmate” , to those on the inside.
PF, like SP, is very confident a body will never be found.
IMO, he thinks he will not be convicted, just as SP thought.

I wanted to mention the visit to the waste facility. Was he “playing” cat & mouse with LE?

 

[WildWest]

I don't think he would have taken it to Idaho himself. It would have taken too long and someone would have likely known about it. I don't think he would have taken the risk. Imo

I wonder too. My husband used to drive 1200 miles straight through to visit his hometown. Likely not probable, but still possible.

 

[mustloveco]

Or drive up one of those steep mountain roads and toss her over. Somewhere hikers wouldn't even discover anything. Pikes Peak access road is very close to Woodland Park, for example. In 1992, a suicidal man drove his pickup truck off Pike's Peak and it landed in an area called "The Bottomless Pit" and even though it was witnessed, it was extremely difficult to find even the truck. Probably because it was witnessed, it was eventually found. In this case though, perhaps a more secure place in the mind of PF is hiding her body somewhere, and close.....in the water, buried, in a bin...I do agree he's going to have to tell where in order for her to be found. jmo

I agree-- I've thought this too.A LOT of steep roads on the wavy toCripple Creek. Those roads are narrow and scary and steep.

 

[gitana1]

Mother of Kelsey Berreth comes face-to-face with daughter's 'killer fiance' Patrick Frazee | Daily Mail Online

Frazee later told police that the couple met later that afternoon so that he could pick up the couple's daughter.

The two did not live together despite being engaged, a fact that many on social media suggested was a bad omen after learning of the disappearance.

It was Berreth however who had been hesitant to move in with her fiance because he still lived with his mother.

Yes. And why wasn't a grown man willing to move out with his fiancée and child?

 

[1mtroyal]

I don't doubt at all that Kelsey was killed on Thanksgiving but I'd like to see the court record they reference if it exists. I've not been able to find it.
MOO

If PF had this planned, he would have killed her during darkness (Chris Watts was smart enough to do this), and would have told the police he picked up the child in the afternoon to maybe give some doubt as to him being the last to see her alive. But the police may have her phone and maybe there were 6 calls made on the 19 th, 8 calls made on the 20 th, 7 calls made on the 21 st, and only the two calls made on the 22 nd, (to her mom), none on the 23 d, none on the 24 th, and 2 on the 25 th and none after that. It is probable she was killed on the 22 nd, and the police may know for certain she was killed on the 22 nd, but how they know has not been revealed. If there is a statement that she was killed on the 22 nd, there is also a statement that she was "probably" killed on the 22 nd.

 

[susiQ]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, just please don't cut my branch off I understand some, or even many here may not see things this way. I'm not a murderer, but I'd like to see some justice, now and then.

I am aware that CO does have the DP but it pretty much just exists on paper, it has no real "teeth." No one has been executed in 20 plus years. Maybe it's a good thing I'm not in a position to change this. But, I cannot get out of my mind that PF and other perps like him get to live out their lives in prison while they get to essentially "torture" the families of their victims for the rest of their days. Each day longing to find their loved one and lay them to rest and find some small measure of peace and comfort that comes with having them "home." If it were within my power, I would reserve the DP for these murderous scum for a little leverage, if you will. Reveal the location OR meet your maker. Let that hang over THEIR head. Of course, to make this work you'd have to make an example of someone who wouldn't. I bet more of these cowards would be inclined to give up their secret in exchange for living out their miserable life incarcerated which is so much more than they deserve.
JMO

 

[Mom24]

Yes. And why wasn't a grown man willing to move out with his fiancée and child?

Just hit me, what if she didn't want to live together until they married and he kept using excuses for why they couldn't get married (i.e. the dropping price of cattle). CB was quite quick to point out that the two had never lived together, so perhaps that was where Kelsey's religious beliefs drew a line in the sand.

 

[bestill]

Total speculation on my part but I wonder if the trip to Idaho was planned already by PF, maybe he wanted to take baby K with him and this lead to it all. KB may have refused to let her go and he lost it. I am so curious as to how much of baby K's stuff he took with him when he left with her that day or did he go back to the house later in the week for more things?

 

[susiQ]

Just hit me, what if she didn't want to live together until they married and he kept using excuses for why they couldn't get married (i.e. the dropping price of cattle). CB was quite quick to point out that the two had never lived together, so perhaps that was where Kelsey's religious beliefs drew a line in the sand.

I'm guessing this was a big part of it. That would have been too much of a commitment for him.

 

[The Farm]

It was extremely frustrating. Finally Teller County Sheriff put out a notice stating the LE presence was due to an unrelated incident and another reporter let us know it was a suicide. But she remained completely silent until after the sheriff and other reporter put out statements.

I must be missing something here, tried to read back. What is this about a suicide?

 

[enelram]

BINGO, very interesting thesis, thank you. Saved it to read more
later on.
According to this article, PF would probably have a personality
disorder w/ serious consequences.
I read that Deprivation and Rejection by early objects (persons)
provides the framework for Narcissistic disturbances. Hmmm.
Wish we could hear more about his adolescent period. Was he
a pervasive liar? A fighter? Abusive to animals? a juvenile delinquent? Bet his younger years were filled with trouble.
MOO.

 

[Mom24]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, just please don't cut my branch off I understand some, or even many here may not see things this way. I'm not a murderer, but I'd like to see some justice, now and then.

I am aware that CO does have the DP but it pretty much just exists on paper, it has no real "teeth." No one has been executed in 20 plus years. Maybe it's a good thing I'm not in a position to change this. But, I cannot get out of my mind that PF and other perps like him get to live out their lives in prison while they get to essentially "torture" the families of their victims for the rest of their days. Each day longing to find their loved one and lay them to rest and find some small measure of peace and comfort that comes with having them "home." If it were within my power, I would reserve the DP for these murderous scum for a little leverage, if you will. Reveal the location OR meet your maker. Let that hang over THEIR head. Of course, to make this work you'd have to make an example of someone who wouldn't. I bet more of these cowards would be inclined to give up their secret in exchange for living out their miserable life incarcerated which is so much more than they deserve.
JMO

The problem is, what if that person enjoys torturing the family? Once they're dead, they can never talk. I'd hope that after years behind walls, they might change their mind about releasing the information, once they're gone if they don't tell the family might never get closure.

 

[enelram]

I must be missing something here, tried to read back. What is this about a suicide?

Several reporters' twitter accts. hinted about LE activity around
KB's area. Totally unrelated suicide.

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder too. My husband used to drive 1200 miles straight through to visit his hometown. Likely not probable, but still possible.

True, but it would have been two days that he would have to explain where he was.