CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Admins, Please delete this if not allowed because it is just me thinking out loud and pure conjecture. This case has been baffling and another one of those cases that seems to have happened out of the blue when we look at it as outsiders. We of course don’t know their true relationship.

What about a new pregnancy? Perhaps totally unplanned. That could have changed the dynamics and affected both in different ways and may have sent PF over the edge (and explained the pre-planning). Again, pure conjecture on my part.
 
The Saint said:
From what was posted on WS during Chris Watts case, CO custody is different than CA. If a parent is awarded full custody of the child,
that parent can move whever they wish without having the consent of the other parent.
Click to expand...
Do we know if KB had full custody? Also, can’t people take the custodial parent to court to review the custody?
 
justaparent said:
Admins, Please delete this if not allowed because it is just me thinking out loud and pure conjecture. This case has been baffling and another one of those cases that seems to have happened out of the blue when we look at it as outsiders. We of course don’t know their true relationship.

What about a new pregnancy? Perhaps totally unplanned. That could have changed the dynamics and affected both in different ways and may have sent PF over the edge (and explained the pre-planning). Again, pure conjecture on my part.
Click to expand...

If PF planned to kill her since September, it will be one trimester into a new pregnancy. There would be visits to a doctor, etc.

Also, it seems to me that they did not have a close relationship at that time. MOO.
 
Liadan said:
Police: Dad tried to have fiancee killed three times before she vanished

This so blew me away, Kelsey never had a chance.
Click to expand...

What if it was not about custody? I could not find the exact date of KB’s employment by DOSS, but if PF planned to kill her since September, it might have been so that she had no plans of moving at that time.

What else?

Is it possible that PF simply did not want KB to be in her daughter’s life?

It is my understanding that PF and KB met on a Christian site. But any possibility that PF did not want baby K to be raised in a certain branch of Christianity? Something like this?

Why would a person be so persistent to remove the kid’s mom?
 
LAHOLLA said:
I wish there would be a PC to address the dang cinnamon rolls :p

Praying we see something today in terms of arrests. It would take a lot of stress off LE in terms of PF’s rights. Would love to see huge progress like that before Friday’s hearings.
Click to expand...
Me too! I just hope they aren’t stalling because they can’t get their pieces tied together. The roll out of this case makes me worry they can’t pin down their evidence solidly. I hope this isn’t the case! It bothered me when the DA said they haven’t been able to interview and follow the leads because of the ‘holiday season’ making it difficult. I kind of scratched my head thinking, Holidays slow down 1st degree murder investigations?
 
Last edited:
I'm also having a hard time thinking this murder was simply over custody. For one thing, PF was seeing his daughter all the time and appears to have been a primary caretaker. So it's not like he was being withheld from seeing his child where his anger and frustration was brewing and boiling over. KB seemed to like her job and was still in the area. If he feared she was going to take their daughter and move from the area, there were still plenty legal/court/custody sharing options that could have been discussed without resorting to murder as the first option. They were not even married - not a huge ordeal to end this relationship and figure out a child custody arrangement like plenty of people manage to do.

I guess my thought is that whatever their situation was, it doesn't seem like it had even escalated to a "breaking point" yet. We aren't talking a divorce or a few years of fights over holiday time or special school events or new significant others, or all the extra factors that intensify the bitterness and anger.

Granted, there is so much that we don't know. It just seems like if the main motive was about custody, that he would have at least TRIED to go through the legal system first on working out an arrangement. But soliciting (at least three times!) a hit on her, possible attempted robbery, and a murder? For what? I don't know what the missing piece(s?) is/are, but I just feel like it has to be more than a rogue attempt to gain full custody. imo!
 
scdiv said:
I'm also having a hard time thinking this murder was simply over custody. For one thing, PF was seeing his daughter all the time and appears to have been a primary caretaker. So it's not like he was being withheld from seeing his child where his anger and frustration was brewing and boiling over. KB seemed to like her job and was still in the area. If he feared she was going to take their daughter and move from the area, there were still plenty legal/court/custody sharing options that could have been discussed without resorting to murder as the first option. They were not even married - not a huge ordeal to end this relationship and figure out a child custody arrangement like plenty of people manage to do.

I guess my thought is that whatever their situation was, it doesn't seem like it had even escalated to a "breaking point" yet. We aren't talking a divorce or a few years of fights over holiday time or special school events or new significant others, or all the extra factors that intensify the bitterness and anger.

Granted, there is so much that we don't know. It just seems like if the main motive was about custody, that he would have at least TRIED to go through the legal system first on working out an arrangement. But soliciting (at least three times!) a hit on her, possible attempted robbery, and a murder? For what? I don't know what the missing piece(s?) is/are, but I just feel like it has to be more than a rogue attempt to gain full custody. imo!
Click to expand...
Maybe there isn’t a missing piece and custody was the issue, indicating PF has a huge screw loose in his head.
 
November 22nd - Thursday
(Thanksgiving)
  • KB last seen on video surveillance shopping in Safeway (noon hour)
  • KB exchanged daughter with PF (fiancé)


November 25th - Sunday
  • Text from KB’s phone to her employer
  • KB's phone pinged in Gooding, ID (5:13 pm)
  • PF received text from KB’s phone


December 2nd - Sunday
  • KB's mom called PF on KB's whereabouts
  • Missing person reported - KB's mom (12:37 pm)


December 10th - Monday
  • Press Conference



December 12th - Wednesday
  • PF Attorney releases statement - PF is cooperating with investigators


December 13th - Thursday
  • Candlelight Vigil Held for KB


December 14th - Friday
  • Search Warrant Franzee Property/Residence


December 15th - Saturday
  • Twin Falls law enforcement was requested to help


December 16th - Sunday
  • The search of Patrick Frazee's property concludes Sunday night


December 18th - Tuesday
  • Five law enforcement vehicles seen leaving PF Property
  • PF and 2 others made trip to Waste Management Landfill


December 19th - Wednesday
  • LE at Kelsey’s Residence


December 20th - Thursday
  • LE at Kelsey’s Residence


December 21st - Friday
  • Arrested- 1st Degree murder and Solicitation of Murder
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search

Archonix XJail Public​
  • Press Conference 10am MST
  • LE at Kelsey’s Residence
  • PF - Hearing on Advisement - 3:30pm
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330​
  • Vigil held for KB in Moses Lake, WA


December 22nd - Saturday
  • Twin Falls, ID Police Department issued statement they are working with CBI and FBI to prepare and serve several search warrants, including processing items of possible evidence with the assistance of the Twin Falls County and Twin Falls Evidence Technicians.


December 27th - Thursday
  • Temporary Custody Hearing - 1pm
Case #: D602018JV26​

Court granted a Temporary Emergency Custody Order made by Teller County Department of Human Services (TCDHS) placing the minor child in the temporary physical custody of maternal grandparents and legal custody of TCDHS. The court continued the temporary custody of the minor child with maternal grandparents. The court postponed a final decision after Frazee’s mother, the girl’s grandmother, filed a motion in the custody case and the case is continued for a pre-trial conference.​



December 31st - Monday
  • PF - First Appearance - 9am
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330

Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search​


COUNT 1 - MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
On or about November 22, 2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully, feleniously, after deliberation, and with the intent to cause the death of a person other than himself, caused the death of Kelsey Berreth.

COUNT 2 - SOLICITATION TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
Between and including September 1, 2018 and November 1, 2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously commanded, induced, entered, or otherwise attempted to persuade another person to commit the felony of murder in the first degree, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime and under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.

COUNT 3-MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
On or about November 22, 2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously, acting alone or with one or more persons, committed or attempted to commit Robbery and, in the course of or in furtherance of that crime, or in the immediate flight therefrom, the death of Kelsey Berreth, a person, other than one of the participants, was cause by anyone.

COUNT 4-SOLICITATION TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
Between and including September 1, 2018 and November 1, 2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously commanded, induced, entered, or otherwise attempted to persuade another person to commit the felony of murder in the first degree, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime and under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.

COUNT 5-SOLICITATION TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
Between and including September 1, 2018 and November 1, 2018 PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously commanded, induced, entreated, or otherwise attempted to persuade another person to commit the felony of murder in the first degree, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime and under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.​


January 3rd - Thursday
  • Temporary Custody Hearing Continued - 8:30am
Case #: D602018JV26​




January 4th - Friday
  • PF - Motions Hearing - 1:30pm
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search​

Discuss how to process an unknown piece of evidence, and whether Frazee and his defense can have access to the arrest affidavit.​


January 29th- Tuesday
  • PF - Preliminary Hearing - 9am
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search​


Colorado Judicial Branch

Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search

Archonix XJail Public
 
In the previous thread, @Herat said
If they had really broken up in January 2018, why didn't KB move closer to her work in Pueblo, CO with her daughter? Even moving to Colorado Springs would have been a better commute
Click to expand...

Along similar lines, why was she still using a PO Box in Florissant to get her mail? (per whitepages.com)

To me that indicates an intent to be living there in the reasonably near future. It suggests (to me, at least) that she did NOT think they were long broken up.

It's easy enough to change a mailing address, so I can't think of any compelling reason she would have kept that Box as her official address other than she thought she planned to be living in that town in the near future. MOO.
 
Charlot123 said:
What else?

Is it possible that PF simply did not want KB to be in her daughter’s life?


Why would a person be so persistent to remove the kid’s mom?
Click to expand...
If he's a control freak, yes to maybe he wanted her out of his life
too.

PF probably wasn't great at taking direction or orders from others.
Having lived forever w/ momma, not having a daddy around,
only working for himself, he may have great problems with
authority figures, ie LE, and courts and did not want to deal
with court ordered visitation, custody schedules, child support,
etc.
If we get information on who was paying what for baby K, I
suspect KB was forking out the bulk of the money for her living
expenses. PF did not want this to change. If baby was his
alone, momma would probably cover her expenses. Cause
momma always does that for PF.
Simply put, a LIVE KB created lots of problems for PF that he
couldn't control. A dead KB makes most of those headaches
go away. Nobody around telling him what to do.
 
I have been following the case as well as the discussion from the beginning, but only now found the courage to participate. My heart goes out for KB’s family - I cannot imagine what they are going through.

A couple of things I have been contemplating upon:

  • I believe LE might have perceived PF as a suspect from very early on, but made it seem that they are not seeing PF as a suspect by releasing the statements LE and KB’s family have been giving. I think all of these could have been very carefully considered, as they possibly had been also considering the daughter’s safety.
  • Regarding this, on Dec 18th, when PF’s friend was interviewed on Inside Edition, I am not quite sure if her statements were 100 % pairing with her real thoughts (clip found here:
    ).
    This assumption is based on an interesting article in which an FBI agent of 30 years tells how to detect if someone is lying (source: https://nordic.businessinsider.com/...lying-by-watching-their-face-2016-1?r=US&IR=T), and to me it seemed that many of these characteristics (e.g. rapid blinking, direction where one is looking, head shaking, etc.) could have been indicating a lie. To me the friend seemed very nervous, and I thought maybe she was asked to tell these things in order to keep PF “calm” while they needed a bit more time with the investigation before making the arrest. Of course I am not a professional agent, so this is just MOO.
  • In addition, based on the heartbreaking quotes KB had added to her Pinterest account (if discussing this is not allowed due to it not being MSM, I totally understand), I have the feeling that their relationship had not been going well for quite some time.

All of these are of course just MOO. Thanks everyone for the great contribution, it has helped a lot in understanding this very sad and complicated case better. I wish KB’s family strength in going through this nightmare, and that they will get closure, even though it cannot bring their sweet daughter back.
 
What if he is the paranoid jealous type (control freak) and thought she was seeing someone else (which I doubt she was) and feared another man might be involved in raising his daughter one day? I don’t think he wanted to marry her, but he didn’t want her to be with someone else because of his daughter (his property).
 
Charlot123 said:
Do we know if KB had full custody? Also, can’t people take the custodial parent to court to review the custody?
Click to expand...
They had not been to court regarding Kaylee's custody. @BillCarson, a divorce atty in CO, explained that the custody hearing scheduled for Dec 27th was not a hearing that KB and PF previously arranged. It was set up after KB went missing.
 
Last edited:
Welcome Eevie!!!! Good Post, thank you. Keep Contributing!

Is that older woman the same 'grandmother' who's grandaughter
played w/ baby K? I don't have audio so don't know what she said.

Anyway, my theory stated earlier, is that PF could have been cheating with her daughter, which is why she's telling fibs to
defend him. Just MOO.
 
Court Dates/Info:

December 21st - Friday
  • Arrested- 1st Degree murder and Solicitation of Murder
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search
Archonix XJail Public​
  • PF - Hearing on Advisement - 3:30pm
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330​

December 27th - Thursday
  • Temporary Custody Hearing - 1pm
Case #: D602018JV26​

Court granted a Temporary Emergency Custody Order made by Teller County Department of Human Services (TCDHS) placing the minor child in the temporary physical custody of maternal grandparents and legal custody of TCDHS. The court continued the temporary custody of the minor child with maternal grandparents. The court postponed a final decision after Frazee’s mother, the girl’s grandmother, filed a motion in the custody case and the case is continued for a pre-trial conference.​

December 31st - Monday
  • PF - First Appearance - 9am
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search​

COUNT 1 - MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
On or about November 22, 2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully, feleniously, after deliberation, and with the intent to cause the death of a person other than himself, caused the death of Kelsey Berreth.

COUNT 2 - SOLICITATION TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
Between and including September 1, 2018 and November 1, 2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously commanded, induced, entered, or otherwise attempted to persuade another person to commit the felony of murder in the first degree, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime and under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.

COUNT 3-MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
On or about November 22, 2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously, acting alone or with one or more persons, committed or attempted to commit Robbery and, in the course of or in furtherance of that crime, or in the immediate flight therefrom, the death of Kelsey Berreth, a person, other than one of the participants, was cause by anyone.

COUNT 4-SOLICITATION TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
Between and including September 1, 2018 and November 1, 2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously commanded, induced, entered, or otherwise attempted to persuade another person to commit the felony of murder in the first degree, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime and under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.

COUNT 5-SOLICITATION TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
Between and including September 1, 2018 and November 1, 2018 PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously commanded, induced, entreated, or otherwise attempted to persuade another person to commit the felony of murder in the first degree, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime and under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.​

January 3rd - Thursday
  • Temporary Custody Hearing Continued - 8:30am
Case #: D602018JV26​


January 4th - Friday
  • PF - Motions Hearing - 1:30pm
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search
Discuss how to process an unknown piece of evidence, and whether Frazee and his defense can have access to the arrest affidavit.​

January 29th- Tuesday
  • PF - Preliminary Hearing - 9am
Inmate #: 2018001543
Booking #: 18-02029
Case #: D602018CR330
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search​


Colorado Judicial Branch
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search
Archonix XJail Public
 
With the baby being 14 months old already, PF living with his mother, and KB buying a townhome, there’s no doubt their marriage plans were off track by something more than finances. He was probably refusing to leave his ranch and she was refusing to move in. I think they were at a stalemate. I think he feared she would leave him with the baby. Maybe she gave him an ultimatum and he wasn’t budging. So this was his solution to keep the baby to himself and not have to marry her and leave his ranch.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 156 more.
Total: 2,367 (members: 157, guests: 2,210)

Online statistics

Members online
157
Guests online
2,210
Total visitors
2,367
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
601,627
Messages
18,127,275
Members
231,108
Latest member
appt
Back
Top