CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[heartgoesout]

We don’t know if the exchange of baby K actually was planned or just what PF made up.

 

[The Saint]

What if it was not about custody? I could not find the exact date of KB’s employment by DOSS, but if PF planned to kill her since September, it might have been so that she had no plans of moving at that time.

What else?

Is it possible that PF simply did not want KB to be in her daughter’s life?

It is my understanding that PF and KB met on a Christian site. But any possibility that PF did not want baby K to be raised in a certain branch of Christianity? Something like this?

Why would a person be so persistent to remove the kid’s mom?

Control, ego, money.

I would think that PF would be fully aware of KB having been raised SDA.
Looking through her Pinterest, it seems that she was more relaxed about certain things like recipes about girlie drinks and lots of chicken dishes
(although those could have been for Patrick. She could have cooked a vegetarian portion for herself by not including the chicken).

 

[oviedo]

Kelsey Berreth case: Details emerge on fiance’s alleged murder plot

 

[enelram]

We don’t know if the exchange of baby K actually was planned or just what PF made up.

True. KB's mom never mentioned an exchange that day even though sh'd talked twice to KB that morning.

It was made up by PF to explain his truck being seen at her home.

 

[Esma]

True. KB's mom never mentioned an exchange that day even though sh'd talked twice to KB that morning.

It was made up by PF to explain his truck being seen at her home.

I think picking up the baby at her house on the day the murder was to be committed was part of the plan. I think he lied and said she dropped off the baby at his house. I’ve heard both stories of pick up/drop off. Or maybe the media is just screwing it up. His mother must know.

 

[Mom24]

Someone in the previous thread had posted about previous murders in the area. I had done a search looking for previous missing persons who were deemed likely dead or people that were missing and feared to be dead and one case came up about a young man who had been killed and hidden in a chimney in an abandoned home. They didn't find his remains until 10 years later during demolition. Chimney discovery ends mystery over young man’s disappearance, but questions remain – The Denver Post
Question for locals is, are there many abandoned homes in the Florissant/Woodland Park area? I know there are old mining towns that have since gone defunct, but are there many structures left on these areas? It's possible Frazee hid Kelsey in a manner that he had read or heard about, jmo.

 

[Lhughessk]

I'm also having a hard time thinking this murder was simply over custody. For one thing, PF was seeing his daughter all the time and appears to have been a primary caretaker. So it's not like he was being withheld from seeing his child where his anger and frustration was brewing and boiling over. KB seemed to like her job and was still in the area. If he feared she was going to take their daughter and move from the area, there were still plenty legal/court/custody sharing options that could have been discussed without resorting to murder as the first option. They were not even married - not a huge ordeal to end this relationship and figure out a child custody arrangement like plenty of people manage to do.

I guess my thought is that whatever their situation was, it doesn't seem like it had even escalated to a "breaking point" yet. We aren't talking a divorce or a few years of fights over holiday time or special school events or new significant others, or all the extra factors that intensify the bitterness and anger.

Granted, there is so much that we don't know. It just seems like if the main motive was about custody, that he would have at least TRIED to go through the legal system first on working out an arrangement. But soliciting (at least three times!) a hit on her, possible attempted robbery, and a murder? For what? I don't know what the missing piece(s?) is/are, but I just feel like it has to be more than a rogue attempt to gain full custody. imo!

Child CUSTODY is just one part of the equation. The other part is child SUPPORT (the financial kind). Maybe whatever arrangements they had about paying child support had broken down recently. It could be that after buying the townhome, KB’s expenses increased and she could no longer be as lenient about shouldering all the financial burden (if that was the case, which idk - just guessing). Certainly if there had been discussion of her moving away with K, then support would have been something to work out. Perhaps she wanted to formalize it.

One thing I know from experience is that a lot of men in the ranching/roping world do not like a court telling them what to do - not with regard to when they can see the kids, or paying a specific dollar amount to the ex. So for PF, killing KB kills two birds with one stone. He gets full custody and won’t have to pay her, ever.

 

[SaranWrapPetunia]

With the baby being 14 months old already, PF living with his mother, and KB buying a townhome, there’s no doubt their marriage plans were off track by something more than finances. He was probably refusing to leave his ranch and she was refusing to move in. I think they were at a stalemate. I think he feared she would leave him with the baby. Maybe she gave him an ultimatum and he wasn’t budging. So this was his solution to keep the baby to himself and not have to marry her and leave his ranch.

They could've compromised where he could've moved into her place and he could continue to spend his days at his mum's. Maybe he was saving for a ranch of their own, so it made financial sense to stay put at his mum's. I'm not sure if there are child benefits in the US like we have in Canada, but here, a single mum would pay lower income tax and receive higher child benefits than being in a dual income household. So maybe they were wanting to become more financially secure before being married and living together. MOO

 

[Mom24]

Regarding the open mines out here (I couldn't reply to the previous thread after it was closed) I'm thinking that he may have went away from his area & Cripple Creek to Divide Colorado, which sits on the north slope of Pikes Peak on U.S. Highway 24. When you take a ride through Divide on this highway you can literally SEE many old open mines from the road, cut deeply into 'the lay of the land', just sitting there with old wooden boards supposedly closing the openings. It would be very easy to walk or drive up to one and remove the boards.

It seems like they're supposed to be monitored, but FOX31 did investigate years back and found that they were able to drive up and they weren't roped off or closed as they were supposed to be.
Is there a way to check out the three Frazee properties to see if they have any old mines on them? I did a quick check for mining rights and did find one in the Frazee name (didn't have a first name) for a now defunct mine in Mineral, CO and a couple more in CO and ID, as well as one NV with the name Frazee. I found a site that promised more information about mining rights for the mines no longer in a operation, but it was a paid site and I was wondering if there was some other way to research this.

 

[enelram]

Someone in the previous thread had posted about previous murders in the area. I had done a search looking for previous missing persons who were deemed likely dead or people that were missing and feared to be dead and one case came up about a young man who had been killed and hidden in a chimney in an abandoned home. They didn't find his remains until 10 years later during demolition. Chimney discovery ends mystery over young man’s disappearance, but questions remain – The Denver Post
Question for locals is, are there many abandoned homes in the Florissant/Woodland Park area? I know there are old mining towns that have since gone defunct, but are there many structures left on these areas? It's possible Frazee hid Kelsey in a manner that he had read or heard about, jmo.

How about the many hunting cabins in the area? I haven't
seen where PF was a hunter but maybe he did long trail rides
up in the mountains.
I have a feeling he's a good backwoodsman, having lived there
most of his life.
I still wonder if he didn't dig a grave hole back in the fall when
the ground was soft and all he had to do was deliver the body
and cover it up. He may have even had the big rocks ready
to put on top.

 

[PrairieWind]

So, I have been gone for a few days just now getting back. I will never be able to go back through all the threads to catch up so will just go from here I guess. I saw the charges from Monday. Very interesting. I suspect the robbery charges may have to do with the phone and purse. But that is just a guess. The three solicitation charges are interesting.

 

[justaparent]

If PF planned to kill her since September, it will be one trimester into a new pregnancy. There would be visits to a doctor, etc

I know, and I agree that in the normal scheme of things that would be absolutely correct but nothing about this seems normal.

I’m just hopeful that they find her but not terribly optimistic they will unless someone talks. I don’t believe he will talk.

 

[Mom24]

How about the many hunting cabins in the area? I haven't
seen where PF was a hunter but maybe he did long trail rides
up in the mountains.
I have a feeling he's a good backwoodsman, having lived there
most of his life.
I still wonder if he didn't dig a grave hole back in the fall when
the ground was soft and all he had to do was deliver the body
and cover it up. He may have even had the big rocks ready
to put on top.

That's a good point. I keep forgetting he'd been planning this for months, so he may have had an area all ready for her.

 

[MuddyTires]

Sorry, is there an actual statement from authorities saying that they believe PF had been planning this for months, or is that just the media's/posters' interpretation of the September 1 date on the charges?

 

[oviedo]

So, I have been gone for a few days just now getting back. I will never be able to go back through all the threads to catch up so will just go from here I guess. I saw the charges from Monday. Very interesting. I suspect the robbery charges may have to do with the phone and purse. But that is just a guess. The three solicitation charges are interesting.

I do not believe much has changed other than the charges - warrant is still sealed. Custody hearing coming up - I browse the media thread when I can't read every post.

 

[enelram]

Sorry, is there an actual statement from authorities saying that they believe PF had been planning this for months, or is that just the media's/posters' interpretation of the September 1 date on the charges?

Authorities have stated it. Sorry don't know where it was written.

 

[Mom24]

So if the solicitations for murder started in September, wouldn't it make sense that around that time Frazee would also be planning how to hide her body? It would make sense he would scout around and scope out a place that he was sure wouldn't be searched or couldn't be searched. It would also make sense to scope out areas not too close to home, but not too far away either so he could easily drive there and back without being missed. So what rodeo events were happening nearby that he could potentially have gone to that would have given him a couple of days to scope out a dump site? Something between September and November. I believe he had also planned this for Thanksgiving Day, I don't think that was random. It gave him a few days head start before anyone would notice she was missing. Then he could send out a text that she was travelling to family and give himself a few more days leeway to clean up her home.
I really think he used his travelling for work and his rodeo activities to give him free time to plan out the details and find a dump site.

 

[Mom24]

Authorities have stated it. Sorry don't know where it was written.

It was in the court filings.

 

[The Saint]

Sorry, is there an actual statement from authorities saying that they believe PF had been planning this for months, or is that just the media's/posters' interpretation of the September 1 date on the charges?

That info comes from the DA and is included in the charges against
PF. 3 instances of solicitation between Sept 1 and Nov 1. We just don't know the combination --- how many people were solicitated how many times.
You should be able to find the document link posted at the start of the thread.

 

[Esma]

So if the solicitations for murder started in September, wouldn't it make sense that around that time Frazee would also be planning how to hide her body? It would make sense he would scout around and scope out a place that he was sure wouldn't be searched or couldn't be searched. It would also make sense to scope out areas not too close to home, but not too far away either so he could easily drive there and back without being missed. So what rodeo events were happening nearby that he could potentially have gone to that would have given him a couple of days to scope out a dump site? Something between September and November. I believe he had also planned this for Thanksgiving Day, I don't think that was random. It gave him a few days head start before anyone would notice she was missing. Then he could send out a text that she was travelling to family and give himself a few more days leeway to clean up her home.
I really think he used his travelling for work and his rodeo activities to give him free time to plan out the details and find a dump site.

I would imagine if he was plotting her murder in advance, planning on where to hide the body was probably part of it also.