CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[Mae’s Friend]

I’ve been following the conversation throughout but haven’t commented in quite some time. Unfortunately with such little new information being disclosed by LE, much of the conversation is filled with speculation (not just logical deductions) and psychological interpretations of KB and PE. Some probably are close to being correct as human beings, even disturbed ones, generally are not so unique that what they’ve done is unlike all other cases. I hope there is more concrete info published soon.

 

[oviedo]

So these are abandoned buildings in Cripple Creek. He seemed to spend some time up there, had a friend from there who spoke out on his behalf to the media so I'm thinking that would be a good starting point. Abandoned buildings in old mining town - Cripple Creek, CO - Picture of Cripple Creek, Colorado - TripAdvisor
and nearby Victor. It seems like these places are just open, no gate to pass through so no one would know if someone had come through.
Victor - Colorado Ghost Town

I am curious why there have not been organized volunteer searches for the body since LE indicates she is deceased? This is puzzling to me unless what they found in her home indicates nothing may be left??? JMO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Also, an earlier poster questioned why KB maintained a PO box. I’m not familiar with that particular area, but that is a pretty common practice in CO mountain towns/resort communities. A lot of people live in condos or townhouses, so mail gets delivered to the post office instead. In our ski town, everybody has a PO box unless they are in a single-family home, which is only a small portion of the population.

She hadn't long bought the townhouse. I think she planned on staying there. I have lived in places where I have had to drive an hour to work. It's a big difference between driving country roads for an hour and driving in city traffic jams for an hour. Driving an hour to work isn't that big a deal. As for the PO Box, she might have kept it because she is away from home for long hours and didn't have to worry about someone stealing her mail.
ETA MOO.

I don't find the PO box all that odd. She perhaps got that when she first moved to Colorado since she figured she might be moving around some. The she elected to just keep it for now. Its sometimes a good idea to have a PO box so that when someone needs an address you can give them that instead of your actual residence address. Not a bad idea, especially for young women who might not like letting everyone know where she actually lives.

Sorry, I haven't been clear. I'm not questioning her having a PO Box instead of home mail delivery. I'm questioning her having her mail delivered to Florissant rather than Woodland Park. I agree it's not a super long distance, and maybe it's a beautiful and relaxing drive. But it's an entirely different direction than she goes for work. We've talked about her longish commute, busy toddler mom etc. There is just no way IMO she would keep Florissant as her mail location if they had broken up and she no longer had an expectation that she would soon be living in Florissant.

(I don't think she ever expected PF to move in with her at the townhome -- he would always need rural acreage unless he was giving up all horses, cows, and dog training. I think the townhouse was an interim place for her, and also a good investment as mentioned even if she only lived in it a short while.)

But if I had to go 15 miles out of my way to get the mail every day, especially if that meant going to the town where my ex lived, switching my mailing address to my own town (whether PO Box or not) would be one of the first things I would do.

Even if she drove to Florissant nearly every day for child pickup/dropoff anyway, it would still be a hassle to get mail on those days when she DIDN'T otherwise need to make that drive. And yes, she might not need to get her mail every day, I sure don't. This also suggests to me that PF may have been given a copy of her PO Box key, so if he was picking up/dropping off the baby in WP, he could bring her mail too. Seems logistically likely to me and in fact I've had similar arrangements.

I'm just saying that IMO the Florissant mailing address is an indication that KB still thought she might be moving there in the relatively near future. Meaning the claim they broke up months ago is just PF's claim.

 

[oviedo]

She hadn't long bought the townhouse. I think she planned on staying there. I have lived in places where I have had to drive an hour to work. It's a big difference between driving country roads for an hour and driving in city traffic jams for an hour. Driving an hour to work isn't that big a deal. As for the PO Box, she might have kept it because she is away from home for long hours and didn't have to worry about someone stealing her mail.
ETA MOO.

It also appears if there was a break up she seemed to continue to rely on PF and his mother for child care - as far as we know, no alternative child care plans like daycare were in the works IMO.

 

[enelram]

I am curious why there have not been organized volunteer searches for the body since LE indicates she is deceased? This is puzzling to me unless what they found in her home indicates nothing may be left??? JMO

I've wondered too. Perhaps due to the vast open spaces which
would be unreasonable for human searches. But I also wondered
about helicopter searches using infrared or heat sensing devices.
PF really has winter weather on his side as remains could be
totally hidden with snow until warm weather.

 

[PrairieWind]

I’ve been following the conversation throughout but haven’t commented in quite some time. Unfortunately with such little new information being disclosed by LE, much of the conversation is filled with speculation (not just logical deductions) and psychological interpretations of KB and PE. Some probably are close to being correct as human beings, even disturbed ones, generally are not so unique that what they’ve done is unlike all other cases. I hope there is more concrete info published soon.

Its always tough in these cases where there is nothing new coming out. People start to over analyze things I think. There is the custody hearing tomorrow, but we may not learn much from that. Then the hearing on Friday regarding the consumptive DNA testing and arrest warrant access. We might learn something new from that hearing. I believe that the Arrest Warrant affidavit was to be provided to the defense attorney but could not be shared with PF. And I think the ONLY reason the DA is doing that is because of the DNA test. In order to do that test he needs the defense to be notified and sign off, but they can't do that if they don't know anything about the arrest. So its sort of a weird situation. Regardless, the Preliminary Hearing is set for the end of January and the DA will have to lay a lot of his cards on the table by then. I don't think the Judge will allow the DA to withhold information from the defense past that date.

 

[Inthedetails]

I am curious why there have not been organized volunteer searches for the body since LE indicates she is deceased? This is puzzling to me unless what they found in her home indicates nothing may be left??? JMO

I thought it was strange too, but then I thought about it. LE doesn't think she harmed herself and they don't think she is alive.

Since they believe she was murdered and so much time elapsed between the murder and the investigation, where would a search party even look? The body is likely well covered or otherwise disposed of - a search party isn't going to find her without some specific information about where she could be.

I am holding out HOPE that someone who knows where she is will tell LE. I hate knowing she is out there alone.

jmo

 

[Nudgee]

I posted a few days ago (can’t pull up the thread), that I really think there is a hired person who actually killed KB and that PF does not know who this person is and where KB May be. I was maybe a little dramatic in saying it was a professional hit man.... apologies for that.

But I am still of the opinion that the reason LE has documents sealed & this case is so tight lipped, is for the safety of those who are talking. IF (and I say if), it was a hired hitman / killer, whatever anyone chooses to call someone who will kill for $$, this person is still out there. Bottom line, PF is totally responsible for the death of KB. Was it at his hands, I don’t know. To me, Solicitation for murder generally means the person hiring never knows the person doing (JMO based on crime shows/books). Too risky. LE May realize they have someone in their community/general area that is willing to be hired/paid for murder. Chilling!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

It also appears if there was a break up she seemed to continue to rely on PF and his mother for child care - as far as we know, no alternative child care plans like daycare were in the works IMO.

Since PF is the father I wouldn't consider him a daycare provider. jmo

 

[oviedo]

Bumping my post from the last thread for anyone who missed it the first time.

Admin note: Viewers from around the world are here to read about Kelsey's case. They do not come here to read personal information about our members, about our member's son or daughter, neighbor, post man, etc. Our forum is not a chat room. If you want to discuss personal stories or tidbits take it to your inbox/conversations.

Stay on topic regarding the details of Kelsey's case.

Two day thread reply bans will be issued for personal off topic posts or idle random chit chat.

Just a reminder for all of us. Thank you Harmony and the other mods for keeping KB the focal point at WS.

 

[Ultra Violet]

Sorry, is there an actual statement from authorities saying that they believe PF had been planning this for months, or is that just the media's/posters' interpretation of the September 1 date on the charges?

Thanks for bringing this up again, it is being misinterpreted and widely misreported.

Here is my post from a previous thread with the clip of the DA clarifying that detail. It is just a broad range stated to be all-inclusive.

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #19 *ARREST*

DA Dan May answers a question about the timeframe mentioned on the charges. It is just a broad date range selected to cover their bases. The solicitation could have happened at any time during that range.

He explains it much better than I can here at 12:08 in this video posted by KOAA 5:

 

[enelram]

Just musing....
How sad is it that PF tempted Kelsey with 'maybe' going to get
a Christmas tree on thanksgiving Day and maybe going out to
dinner to celebrate what you are thankful for. And then she
never got to decorate that tree or enjoy that holiday dinner with
her little family. How sad.

 

[Lhughessk]

Its always tough in these cases where there is nothing new coming out. People start to over analyze things I think. There is the custody hearing tomorrow, but we may not learn much from that. Then the hearing on Friday regarding the consumptive DNA testing and arrest warrant access. We might learn something new from that hearing. I believe that the Arrest Warrant affidavit was to be provided to the defense attorney but could not be shared with PF. And I think the ONLY reason the DA is doing that is because of the DNA test. In order to do that test he needs the defense to be notified and sign off, but they can't do that if they don't know anything about the arrest. So its sort of a weird situation. Regardless, the Preliminary Hearing is set for the end of January and the DA will have to lay a lot of his cards on the table by then. I don't think the Judge will allow the DA to withhold information from the defense past that date.

As an attorney, have you ever heard of a case where an arrest affidavit was provided to the defense attorney but the attorney was barred from sharing it with his client? That seems extraordinary to me.

 

[Inthedetails]

As an attorney, have you ever heard of a case where an arrest affidavit was provided to the defense attorney but the attorney was barred from sharing it with his client? That seems extraordinary to me.

I am very curious about that too. Could use a legal tutorial on that, WS attorneys!

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

Once again I am most likely going to find myself in the minority but here goes anyway. It very well could be that PF is a most loving caring father and the center of all this is custody. But also keep in focus that it appears he also is a murderer.
Just looking at him and his lifestyle from what we have been told so far I am not sure he was all that enamored of having a young child. He is a young 30 year old macho dude, probably had his share of relationships and someone who is pretty much free to come and go as he wants with virtually no responsibility and hardly any financial obligations being he is still at home. I think more than likely Baby K impacted his lifestyle although it is public that his mother did a lot of the child care.

And when others mention child support you are going to pay that according to your income. And we all know deadbeat dads that will only work for cash under the table to avoid having to pay. And if you look at his businesses per say virtually all of them could be "cash only." Wonder what he reported on his taxes. If you can kill somebody I'm sure he wasn't all that resolute on making sure he reported every penny he earned making certain he paid his fair share of taxes. And I am almost certain that if you make less than so much a month/year that your child support will be zero. Someone on the legal end please chime in. I would be curious as to what that $$$ is.But being he lives at home he wouldn't need to prove he earned so much money to live on as momma could have been providing for him. I think it is more than likely that he was taking care of baby K as I doubt there was much, if any, child support ever paid to KB. I know he was born and raised in the area but it just seems many who are living off the grid/under the radar tend to gravitate to some of those little mountain places. Not so much Woodland Park but Divide, Florissant and such in more remote areas. I'm completely speculating here but if you are capable of planning a murder then carrying it out most likely there are other areas of your life that aren't the most desirable as well. It is my theory he declared virtually zero income, paid no child support and that is the reason he had Baby K so much, to offset what he didn't provide monetarily. And although his mother seemed to look after Baby K the most I still think it greatly impacted his free (maybe even playboyish to an extent) irresponsible life style. Nothing to back any of this up just my feeling. MOO

 

[cluciano63]

Just musing....
How sad is it that PF tempted Kelsey with 'maybe' going to get
a Christmas tree on thanksgiving Day and maybe going out to
dinner to celebrate what you are thankful for. And then she
never got to decorate that tree or enjoy that holiday dinner with
her little family. How sad.

These details Kelsey seems to have told her mom are signs they were still together as far as Kelsey knew. I can’t see Kelsey bothering to make all this up just to placate her mother if they were actually broken up.

 

[Lhughessk]

I don't think there was any arrangement concerning child support, or at least not a court order. I'm assuming they each used their own money to pay for whatever was needed. They likely each had clothes, car seats, crib, etc, at each of there homes.
In any case I highly doubt he gave her any money for child support. Imo

I agree there probably had not been anything formalized in the past, and they probably were trying to do it loosely for the first year of K’s life.

But what I’m suggesting is that the arrangement as it had existed may have started to break down due to changes in circumstances. KB went from being a renter to a homeowner. If it’s true that her job paid around 50k or so, and she had bought a $200k home, she may have started to have conversations with PF about the need for change. Something along the lines of, “I moved all the way out here to be with you, and we had a baby, and now I’ve bought a home. My payments are higher. We need to get married because two can live together cheaper than one, and I’m struggling right now financially. Either that, or I need to sell the house, in which case I’m just going to move back to WA with K.”

So in this scenario PF would have started to feel pressure from KB. Not so much in a relationship sense as in a financial sense. With the reports that finances haven’t been great for him either, combined with maybe the prospect of an affair (since he met KB online, he might have never left the online life behind), he could have followed the Chris Watts recipe for disaster. Drowning financially, the current relationship has become more of a burden than a blessing, someone new gets him excited, and the two worlds have an incompatibility that he solves in the worst way imaginable.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

I am curious why there have not been organized volunteer searches for the body since LE indicates she is deceased? This is puzzling to me unless what they found in her home indicates nothing may be left??? JMO

Well I guess there is a possibility they KNOW there is nothing left.

Or you could organize a search in town with the volunteers but I doubt that is where she is at.

But being he had access to a horse if you organized 100 volunteers to look in areas that are most likely where she would be you would probably have about a dozen more volunteers at the end of the day that you needed to search for. So now instead of trying to locate one person you need to locate the 12 missing volunteers as well. Searches in country that is so rugged, dangerous and where the weather can drop 50 degrees in a little more than an hour are usually best left to SAR teams who are trained in such. And quite honestly where would one start? If they could pinpoint a probable area I believe you would see searches but again it would most likely be with SAR teams.

 

[PrairieWind]

As an attorney, have you ever heard of a case where an arrest affidavit was provided to the defense attorney but the attorney was barred from sharing it with his client? That seems extraordinary to me.

I have never experienced it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen I guess. If I get a chance, I'll try to ask some of my attorney friends that handle more criminal cases than I do. The issue is that this inhibits the defense attorney from adequately defending the case. And that is something that could be grounds for an appeal of a conviction.

 

[The Saint]

Saint..... I have been confused about this. I have read a few places that the custody hearing was set before KB’s disappearance and her family was added to he court after she went missing. Would like to know what is the correct info if anyone has it.
Kelsey Berreth’s fiancé arrested for murder, solicitation for murder

I wonder do a search for the posts of @BillCarson with a keyword of "custody".
He explained it over at least 3 posts. He is an experienced CO divorce attorney.

The custody hearing scheduled for the Dec 27 was an emergency
since KB was missing.

I believe that there is a custody hearing scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday, to address Sheila Frazee's challenge to the Berreths having temporary custody.