CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[Gardener1850]

Other sites such as Paysa indicate a lower average salary for Doss flight instructors. I have no idea which is more accurate.

Why do you think she would have been making in the upper range? Didn’t she just get into that line of work 2 years ago? If so, that doesn’t seem like enough time to progress much past entry level.

I don't recall seeing anywhere what year she graduated from Flight school only that she completed it while living in Washington. She is 29 years old. What did KB do for a living when she living in Washington State? We have never heard her entire employment history as far as I know. Perhaps I have been mistaken in thinking she had a career. By the age of 27 when she moved to CO I expect she had plenty of experience and plenty of time to save up a decent down payment for her house. Perhaps I am mistaken. MOO.

 

[Inthedetails]

... He's telling his other gf(s) that he and KB aren't together, but he has to have contact with her because of the baby. He's telling KB he wants to marry her...

Snipped by me.

I also think he was telling people that he and Kelsey had broken up but not bothering to tell Kelsey that.

I keep thinking that he simply didn't like Kelsey, wasn't interested in her, didn't want her around....but she had integrity, commitment to stay as a family even in their rather strange way of doing it, and wholesome trust that everything would work out. She wasn't going anywhere, and PF's disinterest in her grew into resentment. He plotted her death for no other reason, imo, than he wanted her gone.

jmo

eta: I also think he had a gf, but that the gf specifically wasn't the motive for murder. It's possible he didn't like the gf all that much more than he liked KB, ykwim?

 

[Aydrianna523]

I just can't see how she'd go to all that work for breakfast when the big Thanksgiving meal is the part that takes so much work. She could have prepared them the day before, I guess.

Maybe she wasn't going to go anywhere for Thanksgiving or have a big meal. A vital clue is what what the recipe she got from her mother
that made her go to Safeway on Thanksgiving?

Do you know if KB's mom knew what Kelsey's plans were for Thanksgiving? I missed it. I miss a lot.

 

[chuppa74]

Sorry, I haven't been clear. I'm not questioning her having a PO Box instead of home mail delivery. I'm questioning her having her mail delivered to Florissant rather than Woodland Park. I agree it's not a super long distance, and maybe it's a beautiful and relaxing drive. But it's an entirely different direction than she goes for work. We've talked about her longish commute, busy toddler mom etc. There is just no way IMO she would keep Florissant as her mail location if they had broken up and she no longer had an expectation that she would soon be living in Florissant.

(I don't think she ever expected PF to move in with her at the townhome -- he would always need rural acreage unless he was giving up all horses, cows, and dog training. I think the townhouse was an interim place for her, and also a good investment as mentioned even if she only lived in it a short while.)

But if I had to go 15 miles out of my way to get the mail every day, especially if that meant going to the town where my ex lived, switching my mailing address to my own town (whether PO Box or not) would be one of the first things I would do.

Even if she drove to Florissant nearly every day for child pickup/dropoff anyway, it would still be a hassle to get mail on those days when she DIDN'T otherwise need to make that drive. And yes, she might not need to get her mail every day, I sure don't. This also suggests to me that PF may have been given a copy of her PO Box key, so if he was picking up/dropping off the baby in WP, he could bring her mail too. Seems logistically likely to me and in fact I've had similar arrangements.

I'm just saying that IMO the Florissant mailing address is an indication that KB still thought she might be moving there in the relatively near future. Meaning the claim they broke up months ago is just PF's claim.

Didn't you indicate earlier that you got the p.o. box information from White Pages? (Sorry if that was another poster). If so, long does it take for this to be updated on the internet? I'm sure it varies, but I just checked white pages for someone who moved 1 1/2 years ago, changed states, and got a new driver's license, and the old address is the only one showing up. It could be that Kelsey used the Florissant p.o. box address when she first moved to CO and any change just hasn't pushed through yet on the internet.

 

[enelram]

Didn't you indicate earlier that you got the p.o. box information from White Pages? (Sorry if that was another poster). If so, long does it take for this to be updated on the internet? I'm sure it varies, but I just checked white pages for someone who moved 1 1/2 years ago, changed states, and got a new driver's license, and the old address is the only one showing up. It could be that Kelsey used the Florissant p.o. box address when she first moved to CO and any change just hasn't pushed through yet on the internet.

The PO box address is still listed on her current pilot license listing
w/ FAA.

 

[KBB87]

I would think that he would hide the body where the police would not be able to find it, but he could use it for a bargaining chip to avoid the death penalty if something went wrong, which is what is happening now. If it is completely destroyed, he has no bargaining chip now.

I don’t think these people ever plan with the possibility of being caught in mind. If anything, people like PF would assume completely getting rid of the body means they can’t be charged. A lot of people think you can’t be convicted of murder without a body.

 

[MsBetsy]

If the people who were solicited did not carry out the act and are helping law enforcement, I do not expect more arrests. If those solicited participated in the murder, they would probably already have been arrested and their cooperation with police would result in lesser sentences or dropping the charges. An attorney once told me "If someone commits a crime, you do not have to arrest them" IMO

I would be interested in hearing from our attorneys here about the lawyer saying "if someone commits a crime, you do not have to arrest them."
Could it be that LE has been speaking to someone who they know is involved without charging them or arresting them? (Yet)

 

[kkdj]

I wondered the same thing. And it's crickets on the local community FB page. In a town that is generally notoriously gossipy, I find it strange. I unfollowed the page for a long time bc of all the dumb town drama and gossip.... anyway I also find it strange there is no search party organized, maybe bc they have a hard time knowing "where" to look... and there is so much open space... but there were searches for Kevin rudniki and Micah lambert...

Might be that LE feels someone is going to talk real soon. They have their ways. I doubt it will be PF tho.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't recall seeing anywhere what year she graduated from Flight school only that she completed it while living in Washington. She is 29 years old. What did KB do for a living when she living in Washington State? We have never heard her entire employment history as far as I know. Perhaps I have been mistaken in thinking she had a career. By the age of 27 when she moved to CO I expect she had plenty of experience and plenty of time to save up a decent down payment for her house. Perhaps I am mistaken. MOO.

I thought she was a flight instructer somewhere else before taking the job in Colorado. Imo

 

[1mtroyal]

The wording of the solicitation charge is interesting....."Between and including September 1 and November 1, 2019".... (three solicitations), sounds to me as if he was having trouble, and was unsuccessful in convincing someone to do the killing. If someone solicits someone to kill someone, they want the deed done as soon as possible, not wait several months. There is no solicitation between November 1 and November 22, the probable date of the murder. That also indicates he had no luck in the solicitation and had to do it himself ( probably did not want Kelsey looking him in the eye during the killing.)

As to his probable soliciting someone to take the phone to Idaho, I do not know if that could be interpreted to be in these solicitation charges or not. It is helping out with the murder IMO.

 

[kkdj]

Snipped by me.

I also think he was telling people that he and Kelsey had broken up but not bothering to tell Kelsey that.

I keep thinking that he simply didn't like Kelsey, wasn't interested in her, didn't want her around....but she had integrity, commitment to stay as a family even in their rather strange way of doing it, and wholesome trust that everything would work out. She wasn't going anywhere, and PF's disinterest in her grew into resentment. He plotted her death for no other reason, imo, than he wanted her gone.

jmo

eta: I also think he had a gf, but that the gf specifically wasn't the motive for murder. It's possible he didn't like the gf all that much more than he liked KB, ykwim?

I think this just came down to he didn't want to be tied down and she was making him feel like he had to be. He knew if she left him he would be having child support, visitation messes, daycare expenses, etc. I will bet money he discussed all of this with someone in the know. Now if Kelsey were out of the picture, he can stay living with his mother and have full time day care for free.

 

[cody22]

I think this just came down to he didn't want to be tied down and she was making him feel like he had to be. He knew if she left him he would be having child support, visitation messes, daycare expenses, etc. I will bet money he discussed all of this with someone in the know. Now if Kelsey were out of the picture, he can stay living with his mother and have full time day care for free.

Well, he was right about the free full time day care for himself part, right now.

 

[The Saint]

Do you know if KB's mom knew what Kelsey's plans were for Thanksgiving? I missed it. I miss a lot.

I think what KB told her mom was along the lines of she was excited about decorating for Christmas but would wait because PF and Kaylee might pick out the tree. She asked her mom for a recipe and then KB and Kaylee were spotted on the security camera at Safeway around noon. They left Safeway at 12:27.

We don't know the specifics of her Thanksgiving plans. Her mom might have been told but is not revealing what the plans were.

 

[Herat]

She hadn't long bought the townhouse. I think she planned on staying there. I have lived in places where I have had to drive an hour to work. It's a big difference between driving country roads for an hour and driving in city traffic jams for an hour. Driving an hour to work isn't that big a deal. As for the PO Box, she might have kept it because she is away from home for long hours and didn't have to worry about someone stealing her mail.
ETA MOO.

Sorry, I haven't been clear. I'm not questioning her having a PO Box instead of home mail delivery. I'm questioning her having her mail delivered to Florissant rather than Woodland Park. I agree it's not a super long distance, and maybe it's a beautiful and relaxing drive. But it's an entirely different direction than she goes for work. We've talked about her longish commute, busy toddler mom etc. There is just no way IMO she would keep Florissant as her mail location if they had broken up and she no longer had an expectation that she would soon be living in Florissant.

(I don't think she ever expected PF to move in with her at the townhome -- he would always need rural acreage unless he was giving up all horses, cows, and dog training. I think the townhouse was an interim place for her, and also a good investment as mentioned even if she only lived in it a short while.)

But if I had to go 15 miles out of my way to get the mail every day, especially if that meant going to the town where my ex lived, switching my mailing address to my own town (whether PO Box or not) would be one of the first things I would do.

Even if she drove to Florissant nearly every day for child pickup/dropoff anyway, it would still be a hassle to get mail on those days when she DIDN'T otherwise need to make that drive. And yes, she might not need to get her mail every day, I sure don't. This also suggests to me that PF may have been given a copy of her PO Box key, so if he was picking up/dropping off the baby in WP, he could bring her mail too. Seems logistically likely to me and in fact I've had similar arrangements.

I'm just saying that IMO the Florissant mailing address is an indication that KB still thought she might be moving there in the relatively near future. Meaning the claim they broke up months ago is just PF's claim.

You’re really getting to something that’s bothering me.

Her home / work / POB / baby care situations are just not efficient, and she strikes me as an efficient person.

And they are not efficient because she is bending over backwards to give PF access to the kid and provide what for her is efficient child care. Because they HAVE NOT parted ways in Jan 2018, as he described. She HAD NOT moved on....

 

[The Saint]

deleted by me

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

Snipped by me.

I also think he was telling people that he and Kelsey had broken up but not bothering to tell Kelsey that.

I keep thinking that he simply didn't like Kelsey, wasn't interested in her, didn't want her around....but she had integrity, commitment to stay as a family even in their rather strange way of doing it, and wholesome trust that everything would work out. She wasn't going anywhere, and PF's disinterest in her grew into resentment. He plotted her death for no other reason, imo, than he wanted her gone.

jmo

eta: I also think he had a gf, but that the gf specifically wasn't the motive for murder. It's possible he didn't like the gf all that much more than he liked KB, ykwim?

This is my feeling too. I think KB coming from still married parents vs PF from divorced might also be part of KBs persistence in making it work. Long term marriages have ups and downs too, but part of staying married is continuing to work on your relationship. If this was KBs philosophy from seeing her parents relationship, it wouldn’t be a leap to think PF might not hold the same view. MOO

 

[heartgoesout]

I think picking up the baby at her house on the day the murder was to be committed was part of the plan. I think he lied and said she dropped off the baby at his house. I’ve heard both stories of pick up/drop off. Or maybe the media is just screwing it up. His mother must know.

He could have told his mother anything. Doesn’t make it true.

 

[PommyMommy]

My thoughts are that between work hours and commute, it was just easier to leave it that way for the time being. Perhaps PF picked up KB's mail for her during PO hours of operation and gave it to her when she picked up the baby. We don't know exactly how they managed the logistics of where baby K slept during the week. Did KB drop her off in the morning and pick up up at night each and every day or did baby sleep at the ranch some nights as well?

It's possible that she set up the PO Box for a specific reason. Maybe something to do with her pilot license. It doesn't mean she received ALL of her mail there. She may have received the majority of her mail at her home address.

According to her mother, KB and PF would typically go back and forth between each other's homes.
Missing Colorado mom: fiance's home, property searched; Reward offered

 

[The Saint]

Was PF telling is friends in the past few months that they had split in Jan of 2018?
Or did he tell friends back in Jan 2018 that they had split?

 

[The Saint]

It's possible that she set up the PO Box for a specific reason. Maybe something to do with her pilot license. It doesn't mean she received ALL of her mail there. She may have received the majority of her mail at her home address.

According to her mother, KB and PF would typically go back and forth between each other's homes.
Missing Colorado mom: fiance's home, property searched; Reward offered

It would be interesting to see if his clothes are in her closet and his toiletries are in the bathroom.