CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[Gardener1850]

I agree there probably had not been anything formalized in the past, and they probably were trying to do it loosely for the first year of K’s life.

But what I’m suggesting is that the arrangement as it had existed may have started to break down due to changes in circumstances. KB went from being a renter to a homeowner. If it’s true that her job paid around 50k or so, and she had bought a $200k home, she may have started to have conversations with PF about the need for change. Something along the lines of, “I moved all the way out here to be with you, and we had a baby, and now I’ve bought a home. My payments are higher. We need to get married because two can live together cheaper than one, and I’m struggling right now financially. Either that, or I need to sell the house, in which case I’m just going to move back to WA with K.”

So in this scenario PF would have started to feel pressure from KB. Not so much in a relationship sense as in a financial sense. With the reports that finances haven’t been great for him either, combined with maybe the prospect of an affair (since he met KB online, he might have never left the online life behind), he could have followed the Chris Watts recipe for disaster. Drowning financially, the current relationship has become more of a burden than a blessing, someone new gets him excited, and the two worlds have an incompatibility that he solves in the worst way imaginable.

The average starting salary for Doss Aviation Flight instructors is $74,000 to $84,000 according to this: https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pa...t-Instructor-Hourly-Pay-E245186_D_KO14,31.htm

Doss Aviation was KB's second flight instructor job in CO-- she previously worked at Springs Aviation in 2016. I think she would have been making in the upper range. JMO.

She purchased her townhouse for $184,900: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/

I don't think KB had financial problems. JMO.

 

[kkdj]

deleted. Not sure how to word my question to make sense.

 

[susiQ]

In the previous thread, @Herat said

Along similar lines, why was she still using a PO Box in Florissant to get her mail? (per whitepages.com)

To me that indicates an intent to be living there in the reasonably near future. It suggests (to me, at least) that she did NOT think they were long broken up.

It's easy enough to change a mailing address, so I can't think of any compelling reason she would have kept that Box as her official address other than she thought she planned to be living in that town in the near future. MOO.

My thoughts are that between work hours and commute, it was just easier to leave it that way for the time being. Perhaps PF picked up KB's mail for her during PO hours of operation and gave it to her when she picked up the baby. We don't know exactly how they managed the logistics of where baby K slept during the week. Did KB drop her off in the morning and pick up up at night each and every day or did baby sleep at the ranch some nights as well?

 

[PrairieWind]

My thoughts are that between work hours and commute, it was just easier to leave it that way for the time being. Perhaps PF picked up KB's mail for her during PO hours of operation and gave it to her when she picked up the baby. We don't know exactly how they managed the logistics of where baby K slept during the week. Did KB drop her off in the morning and pick up up at night each and every day or did baby sleep at the ranch some nights as well?

I wonder if PF maybe didn't use the same PO box. But you could be right too. She got the box in Flourisant so that he could get her mail for her.

 

[kkdj]

I wonder how soon there will be more arrests, as I do believe there will be.

 

[Lhughessk]

The average starting salary for Doss Aviation Flight instructors is $74,000 to $84,000 according to this: https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pa...t-Instructor-Hourly-Pay-E245186_D_KO14,31.htm

Doss Aviation was KB's second flight instructor job in CO-- she previously worked at Springs Aviation in 2016. I think she would have been making in the upper range. JMO.

She purchased her townhouse for $184,900: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/

I don't think KB had financial problems. JMO.

Other sites such as Paysa indicate a lower average salary for Doss flight instructors. I have no idea which is more accurate.

Why do you think she would have been making in the upper range? Didn’t she just get into that line of work 2 years ago? If so, that doesn’t seem like enough time to progress much past entry level.

 

[Nudgee]

Now that I know the Dec 27 custody hearing was scheduled prior to KB’s disappearance/death, I’m not so sure of custody being the issue. From what we have read/watched, PF & his Mom had care of Baby K while KB worked. Sounds like a decent care arrangement so far. Add in KB bought her townhouse in May, after renting there for a bit. Whether KB & PF we’re still together, broke up January ‘18 or later, is out of my loop.
Either way, the purchase of the townhouse in May shows KB had a commitment to stay in the area. I’m going with jealousy/revenge on PF’s part, how ever that picture paints itself.

 

[1mtroyal]

I would imagine if he was plotting her murder in advance, planning on where to hide the body was probably part of it also.

I would think that he would hide the body where the police would not be able to find it, but he could use it for a bargaining chip to avoid the death penalty if something went wrong, which is what is happening now. If it is completely destroyed, he has no bargaining chip now.

 

[Irmese]

My latest theory:
PF is cheating on KB. Maybe she has caught him, broke up with him and they have gotten back together. They could have been through this several times and he just keeps cheating. He's telling his other gf(s) that he and KB aren't together, but he has to have contact with her because of the baby. He's telling KB he wants to marry her. KB is holding out because now she knows he can't be trusted. they have fought about custody and child support. She is perfectly willing to let their daughter know who her father is and for him to have visitation, but if they do break up, she wants him to help take care of K, including childcare and paying child support. PF does not want to pay child support but is afraid it will be ordered by the court. He doesn't have a regular income and probably a lot of his business is done in cash, so much of his income is unreported. He may not care about people, but he does care about money. If she is dead, he gets sole custody K will probably get anything of value and he will have control of it. KB is starting to look pretty expensive. So, he makes up with KB again with murder in mind. Maybe he told her to get some cash from the bank and they would go see her family over the holidays. He tells KB they will go to dinner on TG, maybe get a Christmas tree. She gets up on TG day, bakes the cinnamon rolls. He calls in the morning says he's on the way. , and they will go get dinner. Maybe he even said he would pick up K, get her lunch at McDs (it would have been lunchtime, was any lunch made in KB's kitchen?) and take her back to his Mom's so they could have dinner together without the baby. She needs to pick up diapers, so she rushes out to Safeway, then back home. After KB was killed, PF's gf figures out that he's been lying to her, too, and tells LE enough to help them figure out who he could have solicited. MOO.

The possible motives are endlessly interesting, but it is not that important. LE just needs to figure out who, what, how and where. I think they are making sure they have all the evidence they need and I'm very sure they know what they're doing.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

So if the solicitations for murder started in September, wouldn't it make sense that around that time Frazee would also be planning how to hide her body? It would make sense he would scout around and scope out a place that he was sure wouldn't be searched or couldn't be searched. It would also make sense to scope out areas not too close to home, but not too far away either so he could easily drive there and back without being missed. So what rodeo events were happening nearby that he could potentially have gone to that would have given him a couple of days to scope out a dump site? Something between September and November. I believe he had also planned this for Thanksgiving Day, I don't think that was random. It gave him a few days head start before anyone would notice she was missing. Then he could send out a text that she was travelling to family and give himself a few more days leeway to clean up her home.
I really think he used his travelling for work and his rodeo activities to give him free time to plan out the details and find a dump site.

For clarification from a verified attorney, would the solicitation of murder charges still stand if he was simply solicitating an accomplice? Or would they only be if he was solicitating them to do all to keep his hands “clean”? Reason I ask is if he wasn’t planning on doing it himself until after November 1, it would limit some of the time for him to plan a solo job.

Well I guess there is a possibility they KNOW there is nothing left.

I know incinerators have been mentioned- I have also wondered for a while about whether chemicals were found during PFs dump visit that could dissolve a body. The only thing about this is in one of the press conferences they stated they had a general idea where her body was but had not located it yet.

 

[kkdj]

I would think that he would hide the body where the police would not be able to find it, but he could use it for a bargaining chip to avoid the death penalty if something went wrong, which is what is happening now. If it is completely destroyed, he has no bargaining chip now.

If there was a hit man that did the deed, PF may not know where the body is. You know, everyone covers their own ***.

 

[mustloveco]

First-time poster from Colorado here…please bear with me if I’m not caught up on the details.

Initially I thought this was about KB planning to move back to WA state and take her daughter with her, thus denying PF access to his daughter. If the relationship had soured, I can understand KB wanting to be closer to family support. However, that scenario doesn’t make sense, given that she just purchased the house three months ago. Buying a house indicates that the relationship may have been ending, but she planned to stay in the area to facilitate shared custody of the baby. I now think this is simply about his control and rage: she ended things and he couldn’t tolerate the rejection. The timing certainly suggests this, because PF began planning her killing three months ago, right around the time KB bought the townhouse.

Also, an earlier poster questioned why KB maintained a PO box. I’m not familiar with that particular area, but that is a pretty common practice in CO mountain towns/resort communities. A lot of people live in condos or townhouses, so mail gets delivered to the post office instead. In our ski town, everybody has a PO box unless they are in a single-family home, which is only a small portion of the population.

There are two post offices in WP wayyyy closer to her house. There's even one in Divide which is on the way to Florrisant, which is only 8 miles. Florrisant is like 15 miles and winding road.

 

[Gardener1850]

These details Kelsey seems to have told her mom are signs they were still together as far as Kelsey knew. I can’t see Kelsey bothering to make all this up just to placate her mother if they were actually broken up.

I agree. Also, KB's family came to visit her sometime in the fall as evidenced by this photo:

https://whatsnew2day.com/wp-content...zee-committed-five-assassinations-634x400.jpg

If KB and PF were broken up months ago or a year ago on Jan 1, 2018, as some friends of PF's are claiming they were told, I think her family would be aware of that info and would not have called him "fiance" in the first place. I don't see KB and PF going to great lengths to fabricate a "loving relationship" for KB's visiting family. PF might have been lying and cheating on KB though and giving "cattle prices" as an excuse for why they couldn't get married yet. I think KB's mom was speaking about what she had observed of their relationship, not just what she had been told by KB over the phone. MOO.

 

[MsBetsy]

I've wondered too. Perhaps due to the vast open spaces which
would be unreasonable for human searches. But I also wondered
about helicopter searches using infrared or heat sensing devices.
PF really has winter weather on his side as remains could be
totally hidden with snow until warm weather.

Without any indication of where she may be, I can't imagine where they would even begin to look for her. Even if they believe her body is in Colorado, there are so many possibilities it could take years to find her. Imo

 

[Nudgee]

I wonder do a search for the posts of @BillCarson with a keyword of "custody".
He explained it over at least 3 posts. He is an experienced CO divorce attorney.

The custody hearing scheduled for the Dec 27 was an emergency
since KB was missing.

I believe that there is a custody hearing scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday, to address Sheila Frazee's challenge to the Berreths having temporary custody.

Someone clarified that for me earlier..... appears news outlets were sending out conflicting information but that the custody hearing was indeed schedule after her disappearance.

 

[Noharg]

I wonder how soon there will be more arrests, as I do believe there will be.

IMO, many of us wonder this.

 

[mustloveco]

I am curious why there have not been organized volunteer searches for the body since LE indicates she is deceased? This is puzzling to me unless what they found in her home indicates nothing may be left??? JMO

I wondered the same thing. And it's crickets on the local community FB page. In a town that is generally notoriously gossipy, I find it strange. I unfollowed the page for a long time bc of all the dumb town drama and gossip.... anyway I also find it strange there is no search party organized, maybe bc they have a hard time knowing "where" to look... and there is so much open space... but there were searches for Kevin rudniki and Micah lambert...

 

[1mtroyal]

I wonder how soon there will be more arrests, as I do believe there will be.

If the people who were solicited did not carry out the act and are helping law enforcement, I do not expect more arrests. If those solicited participated in the murder, they would probably already have been arrested and their cooperation with police would result in lesser sentences or dropping the charges. An attorney once told me "If someone commits a crime, you do not have to arrest them" IMO

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

I wondered the same thing. And it's crickets on the local community FB page. In a town that is generally notoriously gossipy, I find it strange. I unfollowed the page for a long time bc of all the dumb town drama and gossip.... anyway I also find it strange there is no search party organized, maybe bc they have a hard time knowing "where" to look... and there is so much open space... but there were searches for Kevin rudniki and Micah lambert...

Could it also be to preserve possible evidence around her body?

 

[LAHOLLA]

The cinnamon rolls-

To me the significance of the cinnamon rolls is that they were there.

The first time LE went to Kelseys dec 2 and saw cinnamon rolls out while she had not been seen/heard from in 3 days.

Yes. Not so much canned vs homemade, etc.