CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[Mom24]

Sorry, is there an actual statement from authorities saying that they believe PF had been planning this for months, or is that just the media's/posters' interpretation of the September 1 date on the charges?

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...terest/2018CR330/001/Redacted C&I 18CR330.pdf
COUNT 2-SOLICITATION TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE GA Between and including September l, 2018 and November 1,2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously commanded, induced, entreated, or otherwise attempted to persuade another person to commit the felony of murder in the first degree, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime and under circumstances strongly corroborative ofthat intent; in violation ofsections l8-3-102(l)(a) and l8-2-301, C.R.S.

 

[scdiv]

So if the solicitations for murder started in September, wouldn't it make sense that around that time Frazee would also be planning how to hide her body? It would make sense he would scout around and scope out a place that he was sure wouldn't be searched or couldn't be searched. It would also make sense to scope out areas not too close to home, but not too far away either so he could easily drive there and back without being missed. So what rodeo events were happening nearby that he could potentially have gone to that would have given him a couple of days to scope out a dump site? Something between September and November. I believe he had also planned this for Thanksgiving Day, I don't think that was random. It gave him a few days head start before anyone would notice she was missing. Then he could send out a text that she was travelling to family and give himself a few more days leeway to clean up her home.
I really think he used his travelling for work and his rodeo activities to give him free time to plan out the details and find a dump site.

Maybe PF was super vague with KB on Thanksgiving night plans since he KNEW she wouldn't be alive by then. "Yeah, sure, we'll go to dinner." Like he couldn't even be bothered to plan a holiday dinner with her for something he knew wasn't happening. These guys seem so single-minded and not real good at faking things if they think it will have no point.

 

[Mom24]

Maybe PF was super vague with KB on Thanksgiving night plans since he KNEW she wouldn't be alive by then. "Yeah, sure, we'll go to dinner." Like he couldn't even be bothered to plan a holiday dinner with her for something he knew wasn't happening. These guys seem so single-minded and not real good at faking things if they think it will have no point.

OR maybe he did tell her they were going out, he'd be picking her up as a way to make sure she'd be home at a specific time. It's apparent they weren't expected for Thanksgiving Dinner or that would have set off alarm bells with his family. So he told his family they might be going out, he told her he'd pick her up at 1pm and he can make sure she won't be out or have other people in her house for the holiday dinner.

 

[Mom24]

So these are abandoned buildings in Cripple Creek. He seemed to spend some time up there, had a friend from there who spoke out on his behalf to the media so I'm thinking that would be a good starting point. Abandoned buildings in old mining town - Cripple Creek, CO - Picture of Cripple Creek, Colorado - TripAdvisor
and nearby Victor. It seems like these places are just open, no gate to pass through so no one would know if someone had come through.
Victor - Colorado Ghost Town

 

[PommyMommy]

Me too! I just hope they aren’t stalling because they can’t get their pieces tied together. The roll out of this case makes me worry they can’t pin down their evidence solidly. I hope this isn’t the case! It bothered me when the DA said they haven’t been able to interview and follow the leads because of the ‘holiday season’ making it difficult. I kind of scratched my head thinking, Holidays slow down 1st degree murder investigations?

He said that finding witnesses during the holidays is sometimes difficult.

So, I have been gone for a few days just now getting back. I will never be able to go back through all the threads to catch up so will just go from here I guess. I saw the charges from Monday. Very interesting. I suspect the robbery charges may have to do with the phone and purse. But that is just a guess. The three solicitation charges are interesting.

Welcome back, PrairieWind. When I get behind, I have found this to be the best way to catch up: CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

Just several pages instead of several threads!
MOO

 

[Summit1964]

First-time poster from Colorado here…please bear with me if I’m not caught up on the details.

Initially I thought this was about KB planning to move back to WA state and take her daughter with her, thus denying PF access to his daughter. If the relationship had soured, I can understand KB wanting to be closer to family support. However, that scenario doesn’t make sense, given that she just purchased the house three months ago. Buying a house indicates that the relationship may have been ending, but she planned to stay in the area to facilitate shared custody of the baby. I now think this is simply about his control and rage: she ended things and he couldn’t tolerate the rejection. The timing certainly suggests this, because PF began planning her killing three months ago, right around the time KB bought the townhouse.

Also, an earlier poster questioned why KB maintained a PO box. I’m not familiar with that particular area, but that is a pretty common practice in CO mountain towns/resort communities. A lot of people live in condos or townhouses, so mail gets delivered to the post office instead. In our ski town, everybody has a PO box unless they are in a single-family home, which is only a small portion of the population.

 

[Irmese]

In the previous thread, @Herat said

Along similar lines, why was she still using a PO Box in Florissant to get her mail? (per whitepages.com)

To me that indicates an intent to be living there in the reasonably near future. It suggests (to me, at least) that she did NOT think they were long broken up.

It's easy enough to change a mailing address, so I can't think of any compelling reason she would have kept that Box as her official address other than she thought she planned to be living in that town in the near future. MOO.

She hadn't long bought the townhouse. I think she planned on staying there. I have lived in places where I have had to drive an hour to work. It's a big difference between driving country roads for an hour and driving in city traffic jams for an hour. Driving an hour to work isn't that big a deal. As for the PO Box, she might have kept it because she is away from home for long hours and didn't have to worry about someone stealing her mail.
ETA MOO.

 

[PrairieWind]

She hadn't long bought the townhouse. I think she planned on staying there. I have lived in places where I have had to drive an hour to work. It's a big difference between driving country roads for an hour and driving in city traffic jams for an hour. Driving an hour to work isn't that big a deal. As for the PO Box, she might have kept it because she is away from home for long hours and didn't have to worry about someone stealing her mail.
ETA MOO.

I don't find the PO box all that odd. She perhaps got that when she first moved to Colorado since she figured she might be moving around some. The she elected to just keep it for now. Its sometimes a good idea to have a PO box so that when someone needs an address you can give them that instead of your actual residence address. Not a bad idea, especially for young women who might not like letting everyone know where she actually lives.

 

[Snow Flower]

I have noticed if people want to be together, as a couple, they will be. No excuses. His mother obviously drives and walks. She does have a limp. She probably is not physically able to do all the ranch chores. PF could have lived with KB and gone over to do the ranch chores during the day, go home to KB and the baby at night. He wasn’t doing that because, in my opinion, he wasn’t really interested in a long term relationship.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I'm also having a hard time thinking this murder was simply over custody. For one thing, PF was seeing his daughter all the time and appears to have been a primary caretaker. So it's not like he was being withheld from seeing his child where his anger and frustration was brewing and boiling over. KB seemed to like her job and was still in the area. If he feared she was going to take their daughter and move from the area, there were still plenty legal/court/custody sharing options that could have been discussed without resorting to murder as the first option. They were not even married - not a huge ordeal to end this relationship and figure out a child custody arrangement like plenty of people manage to do.

I guess my thought is that whatever their situation was, it doesn't seem like it had even escalated to a "breaking point" yet. We aren't talking a divorce or a few years of fights over holiday time or special school events or new significant others, or all the extra factors that intensify the bitterness and anger.

Granted, there is so much that we don't know. It just seems like if the main motive was about custody, that he would have at least TRIED to go through the legal system first on working out an arrangement. But soliciting (at least three times!) a hit on her, possible attempted robbery, and a murder? For what? I don't know what the missing piece(s?) is/are, but I just feel like it has to be more than a rogue attempt to gain full custody. imo!

IMO He resented her having a career,and out shinning him, not umm cowing to him like his Chattle, and *advertiser censored*. He rolled a trailer,and nearly killed a horse because things didn't go his way. She wouldn't be chained to the stove,like his *advertiser censored* were chained to the fence. She had her own place.
He resented her not being 'the little woman' obeying his every command.
So many people think he's a wonderful dad, he "put extra socks on her feet".
A good dad doesn't muder or solicit murder of said child's mama period.

 

[Elley Mae]

I wish there would be a PC to address the dang cinnamon rolls

Praying we see something today in terms of arrests. It would take a lot of stress off LE in terms of PF’s rights. Would love to see huge progress like that before Friday’s hearings.

The cinnamon rolls-

To me the significance of the cinnamon rolls is that they were there.

The first time LE went to Kelseys dec 2 and saw cinnamon rolls out while she had not been seen/heard from in 3 days.

 

[MuddyTires]

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/Redacted C&I 18CR330.pdf
COUNT 2-SOLICITATION TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE GA Between and including September l, 2018 and November 1,2018, PATRICK FRAZEE unlawfully and feloniously commanded, induced, entreated, or otherwise attempted to persuade another person to commit the felony of murder in the first degree, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime and under circumstances strongly corroborative ofthat intent; in violation ofsections l8-3-102(l)(a) and l8-2-301, C.R.S.

Thx.

 

[Nudgee]

They had not been to court regarding Kaylee's custody. @BillCarson, a divorce atty in CO, explained that the custody hearing scheduled for Dec 27th was not a hearing that KB and PF previously arranged. It was set up after KB went missing.

Saint..... I have been confused about this. I have read a few places that the custody hearing was set before KB’s disappearance and her family was added to he court after she went missing. Would like to know what is the correct info if anyone has it.
Kelsey Berreth’s fiancé arrested for murder, solicitation for murder

 

[Gardener1850]

I just can't see how she'd go to all that work for breakfast when the big Thanksgiving meal is the part that takes so much work. She could have prepared them the day before, I guess.

Maybe she wasn't going to go anywhere for Thanksgiving or have a big meal. A vital clue is what what the recipe she got from her mother
that made her go to Safeway on Thanksgiving?

Her mom said KB was planning to go out to dinner with PF and Baby K. However, it was only posted by her mom on the official fb page. She was more vague and only said "going out to dinner was a possibility" in her tv interviews-- perhaps because she realized by then that KB never made it out to dinner? (MOO). See previous post by @scdiv for the exact fb quote and link to where the dinner plans info was written: CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

 

[Gardener1850]

Saint..... I have been confused about this. I have read a few places that the custody hearing was set before KB’s disappearance and her family was added to he court after she went missing. Would like to know what is the correct info if anyone has it.
Kelsey Berreth’s fiancé arrested for murder, solicitation for murder

The correct info is that the hearing was set after the baby was taken into protective services when PF was arrested. There was no custody hearing set before KB went missing. Several news sources got that info wrong before the actual hearing and made no correction afterward (very frustrating IMO). ABC News was one of the few outlets to get the info right-- calling this an emergency custody hearing set after PF was arrested: Video: Parents of missing woman win custody of her daughter

 

[Nudgee]

The correct info is that the hearing was set after the baby was taken into protective services when PF was arrested. There was no custody hearing set before KB went missing. Several news sources got that info wrong before the actual hearing and made no correction afterward (very frustrating IMO). ABC News was one of the few outlets to get the info right-- calling this an emergency custody hearing set after PF was arrested: Video: Parents of missing woman win custody of her daughter

Thank You,!

 

[PrairieWind]

Saint..... I have been confused about this. I have read a few places that the custody hearing was set before KB’s disappearance and her family was added to he court after she went missing. Would like to know what is the correct info if anyone has it.
Kelsey Berreth’s fiancé arrested for murder, solicitation for murder

There was a lot of confusion about this. But I think it is clear that this was a hearing instituted by the State in response to Kelsey's disappearance and PF's arrest. I have seen nothing to indicate otherwise. If Kelsey or PF had filed some sort of Petition for Custody prior to her disappearance, I think we would know. There probably would have been an attorney involved in that and we would have seen the initial filing by now.

 

[Nudgee]

I don't find the PO box all that odd. She perhaps got that when she first moved to Colorado since she figured she might be moving around some. The she elected to just keep it for now. Its sometimes a good idea to have a PO box so that when someone needs an address you can give them that instead of your actual residence address. Not a bad idea, especially for young women who might not like letting everyone know where she actually lives.

Agree..... add to that, she had been renting before buying!

 

[MsBetsy]

Child CUSTODY is just one part of the equation. The other part is child SUPPORT (the financial kind). Maybe whatever arrangements they had about paying child support had broken down recently. It could be that after buying the townhome, KB’s expenses increased and she could no longer be as lenient about shouldering all the financial burden (if that was the case, which idk - just guessing). Certainly if there had been discussion of her moving away with K, then support would have been something to work out. Perhaps she wanted to formalize it.

One thing I know from experience is that a lot of men in the ranching/roping world do not like a court telling them what to do - not with regard to when they can see the kids, or paying a specific dollar amount to the ex. So for PF, killing KB kills two birds with one stone. He gets full custody and won’t have to pay her, ever.

I don't think there was any arrangement concerning child support, or at least not a court order. I'm assuming they each used their own money to pay for whatever was needed. They likely each had clothes, car seats, crib, etc, at each of there homes.
In any case I highly doubt he gave her any money for child support. Imo

 

[The Night Watchman]

Please don't quote or reply to this post, as it does not involve the case under discussion, and I don't want to sidetrack the discussion. It's kind of a fun diversion, and can be removed if necessary.

This is a plot of WS posts on the KB thread with respect to time (in days). Not a scientific study, but a way to gauge our interest in specific case events, and show that maybe we post too much when there is not a lot to say- haha!

I'm starving for new information so I can jump back in...cause right now I am confused on how this played out, and I got nothing new for ideas.