CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #32 *ARREST*

[Hatch]

Here's another photo showing you couldn't park behind Kelsey's condo:
View attachment 164748

We need to be refreshed from time to time Thx a Gunslinging Granny

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

What?

That information which came from the Daily Mail is incorrect. They also published that Patrick had 3 siblings which is also incorrect. The Daily Mail has nice photos, but they aren't the best source.

 

[The Saint]

There were no parking spots behind Kelsey's condo. There was only one area to park.
View attachment 164745

REVISED--
There are 6 spots available in front of KB's condo. See my simulation below.
KB had 2 vehicles. PF had one red truck.
He did not have to block her in my opinion.


imo

 

[Bill Carson]

I said I wasn't going to comment on the RR's, and now I'm breaking that rule. To me, "little girls go missing from the playground all the time" is not something that I ever heard said in Colorado, and I heard some pretty desperate threats. I am happy to believe that a person or persons who were raised in Kooskia, Idaho; spent several years in Fresno, California and moved back to Twin Falls, Idaho might have heard it said at sometime in more colorful lives than I have lived. Maybe Mrs. R was paraphrasing.
OMI

Many, many people are interpreting that statement (that PF told KK that "little girls go missing off the playground all the time") as a threat by PF to KK, that PF would hurt KK or her children if she did not do what he wanted her to do, but I'm going to suggest a different interpretation.

Bear with me, as it will take a little bit to explain. Also, once we get a particular interpretation in our heads, it is very difficult change our perspective to consider a different interpretation, so please try to keep an open mind.

The statement by the Rs was made in this interview with local news correspondent Nikki Battiste-- Idaho woman had relationship with fiancé of missing Colorado mom, couple claims

The local Twin Falls TV station, KMVT, indicated that the Rs sat down for a 45-minute interview, and when they broadcast it in three parts, the total of the actual interviewer questions and JR/PR answers was just a few frustrating minutes. The interview was obviously highly edited, from 45-minutes down to just a few, and we do not know if the questions and answers were broadcast in order.

I am going to suggest that the questions and answers as broadcast were taken out of order, or that the questions were asked in such a disorganized way as to make context hard to discern. I think we can glean the appropriate context if key elements of the interview are put in the following order---

Battiste: "From what KK said, what was PF's motive?"​

PR: "That he felt that KB was going to harm the child; that she was crazy."

Battiste: "Do you know what the threats were?"

PR: "PF told KK that little girls go missing off the playground all the time."
​

To put this another way, I think that PF went to KK and told her that he was concerned that KB was mentally unstable and that he was afraid that KB was going to harm the child in some way. PF told KK that he needed her to help him protect the child from something he claimed he feared KB would do to the child.

So if the interview questions and answers are seen in this light, we might consider that PF did not threaten to harm KK or her children, but he persuaded her by claiming that the child would be harmed if they didn't act.

EDITED TO ADD: Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that what PF supposedly said to KK was correct. I'm not saying anything bad about KB. I'm not saying I think she had mental health issues or that I think that she might harm her child, or that I think she was anything other than a fine mother. All I'm saying is that I think PF told KK those things.

 

[yawningreyhound]

My bad I sure thought she had a double cement drive in back .

And the neighbor noted PF routinely parked behind KB's two vehicles as i recall

 

[The Saint]

That information which came from the Daily Mail is incorrect. They also published that Patrick had 3 siblings which is also incorrect. The Daily Mail has nice photos, but they aren't the best source.

Yes. The Daily Mail makes mistakes but they are the #1 read publication in the UK and have been in business sine 1896.
They seem to publish the news the fastest with lots of photos.

imo

 

[Noharg]

There are 5 spots available in front of KB's condo. See my simulation below.
KB had 2 vehicles. PF had one red truck.
He did not have to block her in my opinion.


imo

Don’t some of those spots belong to the neighbor?

Edited to correct spelling

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

There are 5 spots available in front of KB's condo. See my simulation below.
KB had 2 vehicles. PF had one red truck.
He did not have to block her in my opinion.


imo

Yes, if everyone drove a Fiat 500, five cars could fit. Kelsey's second vehicle was a pickup truck. Patrick's truck has a double cab and a full-size bed.

 

[The Saint]

Many, many people are interpreting that statement (that PF told KK that "little girls go missing off the playground all the time") as a threat by PF to KK, that PF would hurt KK or her children if she did not do what he wanted her to do, but I'm going to suggest a different interpretation.

Bear with me, as it will take a little bit to explain. Also, once we get a particular interpretation in our heads, it is very difficult change our perspective to consider a different interpretation, so please try to keep an open mind.

The statement by the Rs was made in this interview with local news correspondent Nikki Battiste-- Idaho woman had relationship with fiancé of missing Colorado mom, couple claims

The local Twin Falls TV station, KMVT, indicated that the Rs sat down for a 45-minute interview, and when they broadcast it in three parts, the total of the actual interviewer questions and JR/PR answers was just a few frustrating minutes. The interview was obviously highly edited, from 45-minutes down to just a few, and we do not know if the questions and answers were broadcast in order.

I am going to suggest that the questions and answers as broadcast were taken out of order, or that the questions were asked in such a disorganized way as to make context hard to discern. I think we can glean the appropriate context if key elements of the interview are put in the following order---

Battiste: "From what KK said, what was PF's motive?"​

PR: "That he felt that KB was going to harm the child; that she was crazy."

Battiste: "Do you know what the threats were?"

PR: "PF told KK that little girls go missing off the playground all the time."
​

To put this another way, I think that PF went to KK and told her that he was concerned that KB was mentally unstable and that he was afraid that KB was going to harm the child in some way. PF told KK that he needed her to help him protect the child from something he claimed he feared KB would do to the child.

So if the interview questions and answers are seen in this light, we might consider that PF did not threaten to harm KK or her children, but he persuaded her by claiming that the child would be harmed if they didn't act.

I really don't know what PF meant by the threat about "little girls go missing off the playground all of the time."

Did he mean:
1. KB could go missing. It happens all of the time?
2. A threat to KKL's kid? (I thought she had 2 boys).
3. A threat to KK herself?

imo

 

[The Saint]

Yes, if everyone drove a Fiat 500, five cars could fit. Kelsey's second vehicle was a pickup truck.

I think KB had a compact pickup truck or at least PF had one --a Toyota.

I don't believe the silver car pictured by Google maps is a Fiat 500. They are my favorite car in the universe (the old ones).

The point is that PF did not have to block KB in when he parked, which was his norm.

And he didn't have to kill her or pay someone to kill her.
imo

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I think KB had a compact pickup truck or at least PF had one --a Toyota.

Incorrect. There is no evidence that Kelsey drove a short bed pickup truck. Patrick's truck has a full-size bed and it has a double cab. It is extremely long. It could not park directly behind Kelsey's truck or car. That's why he had to park sideways and "block her in" every time he came to visit.

 

[Noharg]

Delete

 

[The Saint]

Incorrect. There is no evidence that Kelsey drove a short bed pickup truck. Patrick's truck has a full-size bed and it has a double cab. It is extremely long. It could not park directly behind Kelsey's truck or car. That's why he had to "block her in" every time he came to visit.
View attachment 164752

I'm not going to argue with you. PF did not have to block
KB. If he couldn't fit in a space at her unit, he could have parked elsewhere as a normal person would have done.

eta:

This does not look like an exceptionally long truck. See the part where PF drives off to avoid the reporter's questions.
<modsnip: linked video is not MSM>
imo

 

[The Saint]

And the neighbor noted PF routinely parked behind KB's two vehicles as i recall

Yes, the neighbor said that. I and others interepret that as a means of control.
You don't have to block someone's car. You can park elsewhere.
imo

 

[k-mac]

KB had rented in the complex before buying. Do you think that was where she lived prior to buying?

Trudie just mentioned what I was going to say. Something happened in Sept to make PF start solicitatingfor murder.
It seems to be KB purchasing 269.

We don't know what was said by her to PF regarding any future child support payments, etc.

We don't know if she issued any ultimatums.

We don't know if she expressed a wish to move back to WA
or up to SandPoint, ID to be near her parents.

IMO MOO

Her grandmother in WA is ill. Would KB have inherited grandmother's house if she passed away?

interesting timing of KB buying the condo and the premed now knowing its a likely love triangle.
her family MUST have knowledge and evidence of exactly what had been escalating leading up to thanksgiving because of the wording in the lawsuit imo.

The lawsuit also details Frazee's alleged abuse leading up to the murder, saying he "enacted physical, mental, and emotional acts of violence upon Kelsey Berreth prior to her death," according to the lawsuit.

Missing Colorado mom's parents file wrongful death lawsuit against fiance

I am leaning toward KB knowing of KK and digging in to try and stay in a relationship with PF and marry her baby daddy.
the lawsuit states previous abuse.
PF imo treated KB like dirt hoping she would buggar off but she didn't.....she bought property instead.
in my opinion she told him, she wasn't walking away no matter how hard he pushed her.
KK is at the other end of the equation.....the woman he wants to be with...push push push....waiting waiting waiting.

moo

 

[Artis]

Judging from KB's Instagram postings, she was struggling with her relationship w/ Patrick (the affirmation and Bible verse category).

Are there archives or screen shots of what she said? Did her posts indicate trouble between them?

You know, there was someone who knows PF who claimed they had broken up a year ago, while CB's comments made their relationship sound as though they were still as a couple and there was her aunt's remark which was deleted. I wonder if PF may have told people he knew, who didn't really know Kelsey, that they had broken up when they hadn't. Like maybe PF was seen around with other women or KKL and someone asked him about Kelsey and he just lied like, "oh, we broke up last year but share parenting and are still friends" etc. That would easy to pull off with people who only knew of Kelsey or saw her rarely, with them not living together, her working full time and them not being seen much together. PF may have led a compartmentalized life, which is not uncommon for cheaters. She may not have even known he lived a double life - bachelor within his circles, and "fiance" to her, 15 miles away.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Near Woodland Park there are two hospitals, AFAIK. What about hospital trash .... A nurse perhaps would know, where to dispose something like remnants of a human being within a hospital yard. Maybe, a nurse would have had some instructions, which container

interesting timing of KB buying the condo and the premed now knowing its a likely love triangle.
her family MUST have knowledge and evidence of exactly what had been escalating leading up to thanksgiving because of the wording in the lawsuit imo.

The lawsuit also details Frazee's alleged abuse leading up to the murder, saying he "enacted physical, mental, and emotional acts of violence upon Kelsey Berreth prior to her death," according to the lawsuit.

Missing Colorado mom's parents file wrongful death lawsuit against fiance

I am leaning toward KB knowing of KK and digging in to try and stay in a relationship with PF and marry her baby daddy.
the lawsuit states previous abuse.
PF imo treated KB like dirt hoping she would buggar off but she didn't.....she bought property instead.
in my opinion she told him, she wasn't walking away no matter how hard he pushed her.
KK is at the other end of the equation.....the woman he wants to be with...push push push....waiting waiting waiting.

moo

Perhaps KB would have been ready to light-heartedly leave her fiance, but not ready to let him take the daughter into a "new family".

 

[k-mac]

Near Woodland Park there are two hospitals, AFAIK. What about hospital trash .... A nurse perhaps would know, where to dispose something like remnants of a human being within a hospital yard. Maybe, a nurse would have had some instructions, which container

Perhaps KB would have been ready to light-heartedly leave her fiance, but not ready to let him take the daughter into a "new family".

KB was baking cinnamon scrolls and asking her mum for a recipe.
she wasn't ready to leave anything imo.
she was working really hard to create a warm family day for her baby k and Patrick

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I really don't know what PF meant by the threat about "little girls go missing off the playground all of the time."

Did he mean:
1. KB could go missing. It happens all of the time?
2. A threat to KKL's kid? (I thought she had 2 boys).
3. A threat to KK herself?

imo

As being a "caring" father of a little GIRL himself, it would have been an extremely nasty threat in any case, IMO.

 

[Artis]

I really don't know what PF meant by the threat about "little girls go missing off the playground all of the time."

Did he mean:
1. KB could go missing. It happens all of the time?
2. A threat to KKL's kid? (I thought she had 2 boys).
3. A threat to KK herself?

imo

Consider that came from the Rs who heard it from M who heard it from KKL who claimed PF said it. Could have screwed up or or complete BS from KKL. Someone, probably Trudie, at one point suggested that KKL may have made up the solicitation story, telling it to M, because KKL was planning to do it herself.

It's hard to suss out what the truth is with the limited info we have. I'd just say that anyone capable of murder (maybe both PF & KKL) is also going to be a coniving liar.