CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #33 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

Who would use their Credit Card at Sonic, near KB's residence, if they were involved?
Could this be a 'set up', to implicate KK, in being far more involved than she may be?
It would be very easy to get hold of KK's Credit Card, if you were friendly with her.
Would this be related to 'no arrest' as yet, until all verified?
MOO.

If he implicates her, he implicates himself.

He was planning on Kelsey never being found, and probably trying to sell the story that she took off.

A set up type scenario, wouldn’t be on his mind, nor would it be prudent.

 

[Irmese]

I have thought PF was trying to make it look like KK killed KB. It just makes sense, but I don't think KK is innocent, either. I don't think either of them thought they would get caught, so they probably just needed a foot long chili cheese dog.
ETA MOO,

 

[tmar]

Yes and No. As a first time offender with no criminal record, PF is probably looking at the minimum, which is 40 years before parole eligibility. The 40 years started on December 21, when he was arrested, so he would be 72. If convicted of Solicitation, that sentence would begin then. Someone said the maximum is 24 years, and he wouldn't get that with no prior record. Also, the Solicitaion charge sentence would have standard deductions for good time, etc which I'm guessing would amount to about half of the sentence. So, let's say he gets 18 years, gets all the reduction credit that he can, he is out in nine years at the age of 81, then he has a minimum parole time of 5 years (I think); so he's not really a free man until he's 86 or so. IMO

Great, if this follows through.
At 86, after being a 'rodeo guy' than an inmate for so many years, PF will perhaps be a broken old man, remembering he was responsible for these events.
He wasn't too smart.
MOO.

 

[tmar]

I don’t think the bloody aspect was in the murder itself. It was in the dismemberment afterward. Murderers will go to great lengths thinking they’ve gotten rid of the evidence. But they rarely think about the plumbing.

The Plumbing, is where perhaps evidence was found.
I saw what my Plumber found in the 'S bend' at my place.
As he emptied it out, I would think small particles would be easily found in the 'blocked debris'.
The finding of human tissue, brain matter would be solid evidence, towards death.
MOO.

 

[acutename]

Who would use their Credit Card at Sonic, near KB's residence, if they were involved?
Could this be a 'set up', to implicate KK, in being far more involved than she may be?
It would be very easy to get hold of KK's Credit Card, if you were friendly with her.
Would this be related to 'no arrest' as yet, until all verified?
MOO.

would be interesting to know if KK or PF routinely eats any Sonic food. could imagine PF asking KK to "pick something up for him"
(just another wild speculation)

as to DNA, is there any reasonable explanation for any of KK's DNA to be at KB's house? I am thinking "no." If PF solicits KK's help and KK's DNA is at KB's, how incriminating would that be? (again, my own hypothetical- no official info on this)

 

[MassGuy]

would be interesting to know if KK or PF routinely eats any Sonic food. could imagine PF asking KK to "pick something up for him"
(just another wild speculation)

as to DNA, is there any reasonable explanation for any of KK's DNA to be at KB's house? I am thinking "no." If PF solicits KK's help and KK's DNA is at KB's, how incriminating is that?

KK’s DNA found at KB’s house, would be devastating. She would have no legitimate reason for being there.

I don’t believe she was there though. If so, they’d both be looking at life in jail.

 

[Noharg]

KK’s DNA found at KB’s house, would be devastating. She would have no legitimate reason for being there.

I don’t believe she was there though. If so, they’d both be looking at life in jail.

If KK stopped at Sonic and used her credit card, could it be because she is that unworldly or did she just think she would never be on anyone’s radar (again because she is that ignorant)? MOO- I go back and forth on where she was physically when the murder took place, but I will not be shocked to find out she was very nearby and had clear knowledge what was taking place.
JMO

 

[Kapua]

I'm going with body intact, neither burned nor dismembered for now. And I am going to assume that he removed her from her residence in the wee hours of the morning rolled in a tarp, rug, or blanket. Strictly MOO, based on Occam's razor and because I think PF is lazy.

 

[jaspermac]

i never wore a mask. have used taped up vent filters though.

LOL, I am reading through dismemberment posts and all of a sudden I see you saying you don't wear a mask but tape off vent filters....... Luckily I did read your post on hotel rooms, otherwise I might have been calling the tips line on you..

 

[MyBelle]

Wow, a redefinition of DV just like that, under the radar...

KB was most likely experiencing domestic abuse, but maybe not physical until PF killed her. So I guess that would qualify then as domestic violence, according to redefinition.

It’s one thing to redefine DV as physical, but then it’s necessary to add another category that states DA (domestic abuse) for psychological and verbal abuse! You can’t just omit that.

The change in DV definition by DOJ, without an explanation, is similar to brain washing tactics used by abusers actually. Not saying DOJ is abusive, obviously. But that’s what victims of emotional and verbal abuse experience. That their voice is taken away, that their needs aren’t important, and that any pain they feel isn’t real.

I’m gonna have to look into who’s on that DOJ task force...

I'm confused. Aren't victim services such as court advocates and protection orders under State judicial control rather than federal? My DD has a protection order and it is over a year old. The hearings have been in state court and the judge has taken emotional abuse very, very seriously.

JMO

 

[srg]

I'm confused. Aren't victim services such as court advocates and protection orders under State judicial control rather than federal? My DD has a protection order and it is over a year old. The hearings have been in state court and the judge has taken emotional abuse very, very seriously.

JMO

Well I think many victim services organizations rely on funding from DOJ. A redefinition of DV at DOJ level can impact the amount and distribution of funding for victim services agencies.

 

[vaporlass]

I have thought PF was trying to make it look like KK killed KB. It just makes sense, but I don't think KK is innocent, either. I don't think either of them thought they would get caught, so they probably just needed a foot long chili cheese dog.
ETA MOO,

Horrific to say but they wouldn’t be the first ones to go grab a bite to eat after killing. CWatts did it, among others. What’s up with that? Ugh
Did I read that KK used to live there? Work there? Or she has family there? - which explains her presence during this time?

 

[vaporlass]

Sheesh, not going to ask how you know this!

Lmbo I thought the same thing but we’ve probably all watched enough shows and read enough books that we know far more than we probably should about these things!

 

[ajaylee]

KK and PF have rodeos in common and even supposedly owned horse(s) together. Publicly, she could visit a 'business partner'. In the unlikely event law enforcement got involved, she could admit to having an on-going long-distance affair with him but being understandably reluctant to have it splattered all over the media.

If her DNA was found at KB's place, she could explain it by saying she rode along with PF to pick the little girl up. Awkward, but if KB and PF really were through, it would be rude but probably not out of character for PF to show up with his other love interest.

Or if she was there, she could have simply worn gloves. She works with horses and particpates in rodeos - and is a nurse. She's no stranger to wearing gloves.

 

[vaporlass]

If KK stopped at Sonic and used her credit card, could it be because she is that unworldly or did she just think she would never be on anyone’s radar (again because she is that ignorant)? MOO- I go back and forth on where she was physically when the murder took place, but I will not be shocked to find out she was very nearby and had clear knowledge what was taking place.
JMO

Someone has probably already said or thought this ... Maybe KK dropped PF off so his vehicle wasn’t seen there and that’s when he did it?
I think they both thought they were SO smart and had planned so carefully that they would never be caught...
But, KK had a feeling that she might ought to tell someone ... just in case something happened to her, too. I think she told BFF about PF’s plans because somewhere in her there was a voice screaming, “Why would you trust a murderer!”

 

[GordianKnot]

While we're waiting for the probable cause hearing, I'm thinking once again about the bags PF dumped on 12/17 that were retrieved by LE at the waste management facility on 12/18.

The day after LE collects PF's trash, LE goes back and searches KB's townhome for 2 straight days, on 12/19 and 12/20.

3 days after he dumps the bag and the day after LE finishes searching KB's home, PF is arrested on 12/21. As we see below:
Archonix XJail Public

IMO, there was blood evidence in those trash bags, and there was more blood evidence at KB's townhome. I'm thinking maybe PF's clothing with KB's blood on it, maybe a weapon, maybe a bloody rug, bloody car mat, sheet, towels, gym bag, etc.

It's going to be so easy for the DA to lay that piece of the case out for the jury, IMO.
PF is so linear in his thinking.
He has no executive functioning skills.
As evidenced by the neon flashing trail of bread crumbs he left in his destructive wake.

JMO.

 

[InvSmith]

I'm saying that her comment tells me they didn't have any evidence at that time that might be destroyed in testing. The logical conclusion is that they didn't have any minute blood spatter samples likely to produce a match to KB's DNA. They could have had dozens of minute splatter samples that they gathered, though. KB's condo had some age on it, and with very high ceiling and textured walls, it would

I don't know if anyone else remembers reading in the Daily after the initial searches that an article ran that stated a FBI source indicated there was "obvious evidence of a homicide." It was not detailed but was frank to the point. The point of consumptive testing is just the sample size will use up the material and thus have no material left for the defense. It does not imply anything else.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Not only do they have evidence of a homicide, but they have quite succinctly stated that they have everything necessary to state that she is deceased. Why does anyone doubt this? They stated it matter of factly.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not only do they have evidence of a homicide, but they have quite succinctly stated that they have everything necessary to state that she is deceased. Why does anyone doubt this? They stated it matter of factly.

I'm with you Yellow Rose, I have a feeling when the information is released in February people will be shocked at how much they do in fact have. Justice for Kelsey!

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

If he did, he probably did it in the bath/shower. She was small enough to move, but moving a heavy bag or tote might have drawn attention. We have no idea what really happened, but dismemberment is a good theory, partly because there is some kind of evidence she is dead, but no mention of her body. That means LE has found something that they believe proves she had to be dead, some kind of tissue, like brain or liver, or a large quantity of blood. He could have allowed her to bleed out in the bath, then came back later to dismember the body and clean up. He's used to living on a ranch, probably has cattle butchered for food, probably is a hunter. MOO.

http://mynorthwest.com/256382/legal-expert-finding-rest-renton-moms-body-important-next-step/?

Ingrid Lyne was dismembered in her bathtub, for no logical reason, and detectives found evidence in the plumbing. They also found the body parts, but I believe the plumbing evidence helped connect Charlton to the crime. He was convicted of first degree premeditated murder and robbery (auto theft) and got only 27 years in WA state.
"According to charging documents, investigators removed the plumbing beneath Lyne’s bathtub and found blood and flesh. They also found a 15-inch wood saw. Charlton also told detectives that he is homeless, had a drinking problem and was 'not a normal person.'"