CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #34 *ARREST*

[Dave F.]

Bumping this post from earlier thread.

Expert: No-body murder cases can be tried successfully


“The interesting thing about no-body cases is, yes, they are very difficult to prosecute. But when they do go to trial, the conviction rate is actually quite high. Right now, it’s running at about 88 percent,” said Tad DiBiase, who successfully prosecuted a no-body murder case tried in Washington, D.C., in January 2006 when he worked as an Assistant U.S. Attorney. “So that seems very counter-intuitive because they’re really difficult to do.”
[...]
“There are two reasons why the conviction rate is still pretty high in these cases. No. 1, prosecutors are only going to take the tough cases to trial; they’re not going to take a shaky missing persons case to trial,” DiBiase said. “And the second thing is, about 50-51 percent of no-body cases are actually domestic cases.

“So, typically, husband kills wife, boyfriend kills girlfriend, parent kills child; there’s usually a pre-existing relationship between the two people. The suspect becomes very obvious in those cases, though it doesn’t always mean it’s that person.”
[...]
DiBiase said a body is the most critical piece of evidence in a murder case, but prosecutors can present other evidence to get a conviction.

“The body gives you how the murder happened -- Was it a poisoning? Was it a shooting? Was it a strangling? It typically gives you when it happened and it also can tell you where the murder happened,” DiBiase said.

The main way in which no-body cases are made are through what DiBiase calls the three legs of a stool.

The first leg, he said, is some type of forensic evidence such as DNA or blood.

“It can also be trace evidence. It can be hair or fiber, maybe fingerprints. Some type of scientific evidence is leg No. 1,” DiBiase said.

Leg No. 2 is a confession to friends or family. And leg No. 3 is a confession to police.

“Most no-body cases are made with that kind of evidence,” DiBiase said. “Some only have one leg. The case I tried had all three. And some have none of them and those are the toughest cases. You generally don’t have eyewitnesses. They’re not filmed or anything or that type of stuff. You generally have one of those types of things.”

I don't think anything at all will be revealed to the public. There's a gag order in place, and no motion to remove it has been filed. IMO

So far, we have domestic violence case, provided the "domestic" part as sworn to by a lady in northern Idaho who talked to the victim every day she wasn't working stands up under cross examination, a couple in southern Idaho that are eyewitnesses to a friend of a friend of a solicitee, and two of three phones of interest. He's right, it's going to be difficult. IMO

 

[Irmese]

I've searched listings of farriers in CO and don't see PF's name anywhere. Does anyone have any links to show he is a farrier?

 

[Dave F.]

We have Brussels Griffons now and have had other breeds in the past. It isn’t unusual for a breeder to sell the puppies at two different prices. A lower price if you are buying as a pet, which we do, but a higher price if you intend to breed.

The agreement is usually to provide papers to pet owners after giving them X amount of time to spay or neuter. Owners who will breed would get the papers early.

Good breeders are pretty picky about which of their “offspring” are used to (officially) breed. I’m sure some people buy pets and then use them to breed but they often won’t have papers.

So it’s hard to say which category the person who posted falls in, and whether or not the papers were due them.

We bought an old English Sheep Dog with chamionship bloodlines once. We were told to file for papers right away, to have any chance of breeding. As I remember, it was almost as enjoyable and understandable as filing income tax. IMO

 

[dkryder]

What is your opinion on what info will be revealed Feb 19th? MOO is we will then know the 5 W’s and How.

perhaps if PF enters a not guilty, which at this point is probably a formality but at least it will be on record. i still have fingers crossed for an additional arrest before the 19th.

 

[jaspermac]

So far, we have domestic violence case, provided the "domestic" part as sworn to by a lady in northern Idaho who talked to the victim every day she wasn't working stands up under cross examination, a couple in southern Idaho that are eyewitnesses to a friend of a friend of a solicitee, and two of three phones of interest. He's right, it's going to be difficult. IMO

As Seattle posted there are 3 legs of the stool for no body cases. They will have him dead to rights.
They have two legs of the stool.

Leg 1: Forensic evidence- a)LE were convinced KB was deceased- that means they have evidence of that, which the search of KB's place indicated. Large amounts of blood or brain matter. b) LE confirmed they have extensive amount of digital evidence that supports the arrest ( source for both press conference and search)

Leg 2: Confession to family or friends-a. KK. She knows what he did and it appears she is talking. b. they have enough evidence to charge him with 3 counts of solicititation

Leg 3- confession- may not happen.

Two legs of the stool, which is more than many no body cases. Plus all of the other evidence they will get from MS, they won't use the rockstahls- thats third party and they don't need to.

PF is going down. They have a strong case and we have only seen the crumbs of this case. 88 percent conviction rate for no body cases.

 

[magicforest]

I've searched listings of farriers in CO and don't see PF's name anywhere. Does anyone have any links to show he is a farrier?

I’ve owned horses for 45 years. The farrier industry in the US is unregulated and majority of the farriers I’ve used over the years are not listed in any online database. For many of them, the way they get their work is 100% word of mouth. (My first post on WS, hi guys!)

 

[sassyblue]

Welcome, magicforest!

 

[Lady Justice21]

I've searched listings of farriers in CO and don't see PF's name anywhere. Does anyone have any links to show he is a farrier?

1st time attempting a link, so no promises I didn't mess it up. This website has him listed including his certifications.

ELPO Membership List - Farriers

 

[CarolinePolly]

I’ve owned horses for 45 years. The farrier industry in the US is unregulated and majority of the farriers I’ve used over the years are not listed in any online database. For many of them, the way they get their work is 100% word of mouth. (My first post on WS, hi guys!)

Welcome Magic Forest!!

I would like to add IMHO good farriers for competition horses work closely with veterinarians and even chiropractors. Soooo with that said PF probably doesn’t fall in that category as he would have to take direction from many (including women) on how to do his job. I paid $240 to my last farrier every 5 weeks for 1 horse shod all the way around and back shoes were forged on site. Sooo no in IMO PF did not make a lot of money as a farrier.

};o moo y’all

 

[PommyMommy]

So far, we have domestic violence case, provided the "domestic" part as sworn to by a lady in northern Idaho who talked to the victim every day she wasn't working stands up under cross examination, a couple in southern Idaho that are eyewitnesses to a friend of a friend of a solicitee, and two of three phones of interest. He's right, it's going to be difficult. IMO

Obviously, the DA has enough to charge him with first-degree murder and three counts of solicitation of murder in the first degree.
MOO

Welcome to Websleuths, @magicforest!

 

[Trudie]

Welcome Magic Forest!!

I would like to add IMHO good farriers for competition horses work closely with veterinarians and even chiropractors. Soooo with that said PF probably doesn’t fall in that category as he would have to take direction from many (including women) on how to do his job. I paid $240 to my last farrier every 5 weeks for 1 horse shod all the way around and back shoes were forged on site. Sooo no in IMO PF did not make a lot of money as a farrier.

};o moo y’all

We’ve discussed this since P was first named.
I think P is capable of performing farrier services with or w/o direction from men/women.
$240 is higher than norm, imo. But, think if your farrier had 9 more horses after yours! Big bucks, no?

 

[CarolinePolly]

Yes

We’ve discussed this since P was first named.
I think P is capable of performing farrier services with or w/o direction from men/women.
$240 is higher than norm, imo. But, think if your farrier had 9 more horses after yours! Big bucks, no?

Yes absolutely big bucks. That was the high end for a farrier. A normal shoeing would cost $125 every 6-8 weeks depending on weather/growth.

 

[riolove77]

So far, we have domestic violence case, provided the "domestic" part as sworn to by a lady in northern Idaho who talked to the victim every day she wasn't working stands up under cross examination, a couple in southern Idaho that are eyewitnesses to a friend of a friend of a solicitee, and two of three phones of interest. He's right, it's going to be difficult. IMO

That’s all WE know. That doesn’t mean it’s all LE knows.

 

[riolove77]

Obviously, the DA has enough to charge him with first-degree murder and three counts of solicitation of murder in the first degree.
MOO

Welcome to Websleuths, @magicforest!

Exactly. I’m not worried at all.

 

[Dave F.]

Obviously, the DA has enough to charge him with first-degree murder and three counts of solicitation of murder in the first degree.
MOO

Welcome to Websleuths, @magicforest!

Obviously! ...... and another count of murder with robbery in the first degree. The judge signed the arrest warrant for same. IMO

 

[SandyQLS]

1st time attempting a link, so no promises I didn't mess it up. This website has him listed including his certifications.

ELPO Membership List - Farriers

Thanks.

There is an ELPO Farrier School on Hwy 115 in Penrose, CO. Penrose is between Canon City and Pueblo.

ELPO Farrier School - Curriculum

ELPO is listed in farrier schools of Colorado here:

https://www.thefarrierguide.com/2014/farrier-schools-colorado/

 

[GordianKnot]

If she’s in Idaho, they’d pick her up and then she would be extradited to Colorado.

• Thanks, rio! Guess it looks like I'll need to keep checking the TFPD site daily in the hopes (fingers crossed!) of seeing a familiar name crop up under new arrests and current inmates.

 

[Aydrianna523]

We’ve discussed this since P was first named.
I think P is capable of performing farrier services with or w/o direction from men/women.
$240 is higher than norm, imo. But, think if your farrier had 9 more horses after yours! Big bucks, no?

I think I asked you this before, but I already forget. What is your guesstimate on a yearly income for farrier?

 

[allboys]

He's getting out already!

I know...I think Brad Cooper is due to get out in 2021? Ugh.

Question for veteran WSers: do you see this happen very much? (major (digital) evidence used to convict someone ultimately being called into question to the point of appeal for a second trial (w/change of plea) being granted?) Just knowing about this particular case, has me on edge for Kelsey's case, knowing how important digital evidence will be in PF's trial. I'm hoping what happened in the Brad Cooper case is more isolated, and that with Kelsey's case, LE is following protocol to a T, in terms of processing digital evidence. The murder of Nancy Cooper was my first WS case, and was local to me. I actually know someone tied to the case, but didn't realize it until certain news articles came out during the trial.

"Gessner, who also presided over the trial in 2011, allowed prosecutors to introduce evidence of a Google Maps search of the site where Nancy Cooper’s body had been found. Prosecutors argued that the map search and time stamps associated with it showed that Brad Cooper had searched for a site to dump his wife’s body.

The defense team at trial, however, raised questions about the validity of the time stamps on the laptop files.

Gessner ruled against the defense’s attempt to classify two witnesses as forensics experts to raise questions about the computer evidence.

The appeals court judges noted that the “sole physical evidence linking” Brad Cooper to the homicide was the Google Maps search. “Absent this evidence, the evidence connecting Defendant to this crime was primarily potential motive, opportunity, and testimony of suspicious behavior,” the ruling stated.

Further, the appeals court panel added that “whether the error was constitutional or not,” failure to let Brad Cooper use his experts was a key error that warranted a new trial."

Brad Cooper pleads guilty to second-degree murder; gets at least 12 years in prison

I know that this might seem OT, but I'm just referencing this case because of the fact that it also relied on digital (computer) evidence. I hope KB's, PF's and KK's phone providers were able to provide chalk full of data!!

 

[?mysterian?]

Welcome Magic Forest!!

I would like to add IMHO good farriers for competition horses work closely with veterinarians and even chiropractors. Soooo with that said PF probably doesn’t fall in that category as he would have to take direction from many (including women) on how to do his job. I paid $240 to my last farrier every 5 weeks for 1 horse shod all the way around and back shoes were forged on site. Sooo no in IMO PF did not make a lot of money as a farrier.

};o moo y’all

Most horse people I know value their equine vet's opinion/other horse owners' opinions about farriers more than a website listing, anyway, FWIW.

Hopefully we'll hear some news before the next court date, but I'm not really expecting anything. Landfill searches take time, and that's something that needs to be done methodically. Looks like the wheels of justice will turn slowly for KB and her family. I wish them strength and peace.