CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #40 *ARREST*

[Dave F.]

If burning a human body that has been soaked with gas and oil is anything like the black smoke that is created from burning tires then they could have lied and said they were burning some tires. I know a neighbor I had years ago out in the country started a fire burning some tires and I saw black smoke and so did the state cop that showed up at his house. Not sure if gas and oil combined with a human body would put off the same amount of smoke. I just can't believe the neighbors didn't call the police if they saw the fire or smelled something strange.

Burning any body creates a thick black smoke and airborne ash particles that fall when they cool. It smells nothing like burning rubber. I'm sure the defense is lining up experts to testify at the trial. IMO

 

[Warwick7]

Just to add to the coldness of this case, I found it interesting PF took the time on Dec 12th to update who could provide medical direction for Baby K if he was "absent". KB wasn't on that list, because he knew she was dead when she was only "missing". Also wondering if KK was listed...after all he called her for "medical advice" for Baby K.

What? You have got to be kidding?!!!
This is very telling....
We hall know what this means in the court of world opinion.
Just as you said, he knew she was dead when she was only reported missing.....sad....

 

[ajaylee]

I just keep thinking about KB out in the middle of the night with Baby K.

Even if she left K sleeping in the car while she looked after the cows, KB had to wake her up to go in for the prescription, right?

The whole scenario just seems so odd. Why couldn't the baby have stayed at the ranchette with PF and/or his mom?

Did I miss something?

I don't know if we know where Baby K was when they were looking after the cows. I don't think we even know how KB gave the meds to PF. I don't think we even know if they went in one truck or two.

 

[gitana1]

I think so too - the time off work, away from her children, money for gas and hotels? She was in it for her own reasons IMO.

Oh I think it's simple- she was an aging rodeo queen desperate for a cowboy to rescue her from life as a plain-faced divorcee with two children.

I don't think he had anything on her. She is a person of low character and wanted beautiful KB out of the way so she could grasp onto the leftovers.

She's wanted that guy for years. He knew it, strung her along and capitalized on her increasing desperation.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Something about the car swap and the missing bullet has my hinky meter gong berserk!

I couldn't figure out why she took somebody else's car each time, or did a rental car. I think perhaps she thought her husband would check the mileage, like an adult checks their children's odometer when they are first starting to drive? Well at least my mother did that. LOL

 

[KBB87]

Following what I can from all the threads posts and stuff from today and most importantly yesterday...PF went to the bank or ATM in his truck you could see the black tote on November 22nd in the trunk bed? That’s what I gleaned from the information I read. I also saw however horrific and indescribably bad that it appears the child was in a playpen in another room once the attack happened and give the blood spatter was in a mostly different area. Patricia Cornwell (wonderful person and crime writer) that I met when Charlotte Murray Pace was murdered (see serial killer Derrick Todd Lee) a sorority sister of mine (different college) said stabs are like a punch (understand KB was not stabbed) you may not feel everything and it’s not (hopefully) as bad as you would think. Your body goes into a different mode. My sorority sister was stabbed nearly a hundred times and raped and nearly decapitated. The hope is that they don’t feel all of those blows. It’s fight or flight. Given the blood evidence documented KB was fighting. Otherwise it would have been controlled to one area. My point in bringing this up was at some point the body kicks in to deal with trauma. That’s no conciliation to anyone that loves her. She suffered it’s just at some point your body kicks in to minimize if. Sorry for posting this. My dad was a pathologist and you know what they do for a living. At some point there was no pain. Bless her heart.

I think in this case, if KK’s account is accurate, KB was probably unconscious after the first blow to the head. How blood got all over the condo, I have no idea. My best guess is overkill.

PF is a very large guy, a baseball bat in his hands, with all that unexplainable resentment he had towards KB...as brutal as it looked, I doubt she was conscious long enough to even comprehend what was happening or feel pain. That is assuming KK’s account, as told to her by PF, is accurate.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Are we sure KK told LE about the places to look for blood? That's the only way I would believe she saved evidence to catch PF.

I thought KB's family saw the blood spots while they were staying there,

Yes KB's family are the ones who spotted it. KK is full of maneur. Her lawyer better come up with better excuses.
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

What's been forgotten here it seems is PF is the one who swung the bat. Not KK, not SF.

KK, SF, anyone else, may have a piss poor moral compass, but they didn't swing the bat.

Let's place the blame on PF. If he didn't do this, KB would be alive today.

I'm certainly not absolving PF of a darn thing. He is evil IMO. I think the majority of us who have been here from the start are shocked not the KK was involved, but to the extent of that involvement.

He's ultimately the cold blooded killer, but she knowingly participated in it right along with him for months even taking 3 separate trips to do the deed herself.

I hope she can put her not so great cleaning skills to use in jail. And I hope PF never sees the light of day as a free man again.

MOO

 

[Dave F.]

As he performed the burning in a hundred gallon trough, he could have sifted out specific items to take somewhere else to dispose of and then turned the remains of the ashes on his property?

Perhaps that is the reason he utilized the trough is to contain certain items so he could be able to remove them later?

Also, if anyone here has burned plastic, you know that is very very toxic black smoke when that happens. That is very interesting that they were doing something so toxic to the air. Inhale that stuff and you will be ill.

I hundred gallon round trough is not very large........perhaps 3 ft diameter by 2.5 ft tall. IMO

 

[MemPat]

Iirc, the first time the crime scene people went there it was during the day. It was only on the later date they went at night, which we saw them bringing out articles.

Remember the Watts case? They also did their search at night.

I assume it is because of the luminal and the blue star. Luminal negative might be just do to it did not work well in dim light and it was not completely dark? Then again, a bathroom should always be completely dark by just closing the door?

They did say in the arrest affidavit that blood was found with BlueStar, and was luminol negative.

NCJRS Abstract - National Criminal Justice Reference Service


Bluestar Forensic's most obvious advantage over luminol was its ability to produce a visible reaction without requiring complete darkness. In dim lighting, luminol was measurably less intense. At crime scenes where establishing complete darkness is not possible, Bluestar

I still don't get it.

If KK could see blood with her naked eye so she could leave it as a clue and she told LE exactly where it was, why couldn't they see it without Luminol?

 

[Artis]

Exactly, what the defense is going to say. I have tried to go back through everything and collect what i could on PF, but could have missed some things.

1. I do believe he did it. KK was in Idaho at a family Thanksgiving- and i think the cell pings indicate KK was already dead- her phone was with PF.

But here is the problem:

Evidence against Patrick

Nov 22- video of him back at KB’s house at 336 is in conflict with his statements

Nov 22- cell phone pings show that KB and PF’s phones were together late in the day near divide and later west of cripple creek

Nov 23- cell phone pings of KB and PF’s phones show they were both in florrissant

Nov 24- texts exchanged between the two phones near Florissant and cripple creek (by the afternoon KK’s and KB’s cell phones were together pinging of the same towers at the same times.

Circumstantial Evidence Against Patrick

Nov 22- PF called KK at 437 pm

Nov 24- Ent credit union survellience- Patrick seen on surveillance and his truck with a black tote in the back-

All of KK’s testimony

Black tote that is surmised to have contained KB and was burned.

Burn pit- accelerant identified as being used

Hay bale discoloured

Defense can poke a million holes in this. There is no proof of what was in the black tote. KK didn't even see it. No footage of PF or KK at the house- after 336 on Nov 22 for PF.

I would convict but depending on how it plays out and how blood testing comes out, I can see some people having reasonable doubt.

I am scared. They are both equally involved as far as I am concerned. She was actually going to kill KB on 3 occassions. WTH?? She drove 800 miles to clean up someone else's mess when she could have called the police and they would have caught him red handed.

Mind boggling...

And Kelsey's mom said she called Kelsey on Friday and got no answer (ever again). So, that says Kelsey was killed between the time she arrived home from Safeway, on Thanksgiving and when her mother called on Friday.

PF's truck seen, at Kelsey's, between 12:30-1:00 and also after 3PM. Were these two separate trips to Kelsey's and how was the after 3PM sighting verified?

When was Kelsey's body removed from her home?

 

[MyBelle]

Are we sure KK told LE about the places to look for blood? That's the only way I would believe she saved evidence to catch PF.

I thought KB's family saw the blood spots while they were staying there,

iirc, KK told LE she intentionally left blood on the fireplace. I don't believe she did that to catch PF, I think she did it to mislead LE into believing the house was the crime scene. The residue the Berreths found was in the bathroom and I think that was from KK and PF cleaning themselves up after returning from the murder and disposal.

JMO

 

[jmk59]

That appears to be the case.

He probably set it up as some sort of surprise. She might not even have known that he was planning to return.

I think I'm on that same page with you. I have my own scenario of the 22nd. MOO.

out late on the 21st; gets to bed at 4am and sleeps late.
12:37 at Safeway, KB with daughter. Hair not done per CB (no shower yet?).
video of both cars KB & PF (independent) heading direction of KB townhouse
~1pm video at KB front door; KB, daughter, & PF.

my thoughts: PF takes daughter to Walmart to let KB shower (is the plan to go to Cracker Barrel?)
video of PF at Walmart? (I think so)
video at 1:24pm at KB front door - is PF going to or coming back from WM?
KB still getting dressed when he returns, sneaks bat in & puts daughter in crib.
Blitz attack while she's putting on sweater.

3:36pm video, possibly PF at KB front door - is he leaving the crime scene?
he's had ~2 hours to bag up his cloths and shoes, clean him self & daughter with baby wipes, and secure scene.
Seams like a long time - did he shower? (check the p-traps someone).

calls to SF and KK at ~4:15pm (need to check).
Head to SF place for TG dinner, arrive ~4:30pm (per brother). PF "had a hard time eating TG dinner after what he did" (dinner came after).
Did he get rid of his clothes on the way? KK never mentions that she had to dispose of these.

Movement of PF and KB phone together in the evening of the 22nd (after TG dinner?). Body transfer to Nash?

Again - just MOO.

 

[UnicornDragon]

Agree, but all she had to do was show them the text messages back and forth, I think that may have at least sparked their interest.

She could have pushed the issue, if she wanted to. No harm in at least trying to save a life, she didn’t try.

None of these fools did try, but it still doesn't make them to be a bigger monster than PF. They can still be with a lackluster moral compass and evil in their own right, but the worst of the worst is PF.

If they used fuel and oil to burn, along with the plastic tote, would that be enough to be the overwhelming scent? I know plastic alone in a burn is a very strong odor.

 

[Artis]

KB's innocence and helplessness in the face of so much evil is truly heartbreaking.

She had no defense against such cruel, brutal, malevolent forces as PF and his minion(s).

Her last moments on earth were horrifying and painful.

I don't even want to imagine what her final thoughts were.

PF wielded the bat.

He swung it at her head.

He needs to suffer the worst possible punishment on this side of the hereafter.

Whatever judgment comes on the other side isn't up to us.

But we can mete out justice to PF in this lifetime.

Dan May is my new hero.

JMO.

I mostly agree but for Dan May. It's LE that busted KK and Dan May who's letting her walk. That doesn't work for me.

 

[JenniferTx]

I feel so bad for the baby girl. She has no mother any longer and soon won't have a person to call her father.

She is going to grow up knowing that her own mother was taken from her because of her father. I don't like using the word "father" because he is not anything close to what a real father would be.

Also as she grows up she will dread Thanksgiving every year because that is when she lost her mom. If I was her gaurdian I would change her name and move to another state or country. This poor child deserves a great life and I hope she doesn't learn the truth of what really happened until she is an adult. I know that not telling her the truth about her parents wouldn't be right BUT no child deserves the life she has been dealt.

 

[EyesofTheSouth]

So interesting- just the mom and PO brother there. No wife and kids of brother? PF's sister and her family wasn't there? Just the three of them, that we know of? This makes things all the more suspicious, if you ask me. Not saying the brother had any idea before going for dinner what was up, but it's awfully strange that the dinner table was pretty empty shortly after PF came from Kelsey's condo, only for him to go back to the condo. It makes you wonder if he told Kelsey he would be back in awhile, was going to go get something, went home to establish he had dinner at Ma's house with LE brother, then left saying he was getting the baby from Kelsey, came back and the rest is history.

I also wonder how he cleaned himself up nice and tidy after murdering her. He had to have had a change of clothes and shoes with him, right? So did he change into other clothes while at Kelsey's, killed her, cleaned himself up, the changed back into the same clothes his mother and brother saw him in at dinner?

The things that go through my head when I sit quietly for too long.

Maybe he bought coveralls or something at Walmart? Or a change of clothes with the candles (if he bought candles).

 

[k-mac]

So, about that "missing bullet" from MG's gun...

Assuming the affidavit is in chronological order:

• p52 - 11/23/18 - MG asks KKL if they can swap cars because MG needs a pick-up truck to move
• p54 - 11/25/18 - MG meets KKL @ Walmart to get her car back
• p56 - 12/14/18 - KKL calls MG to tell her she was contacted by FBI, and KKL says they may ask about KKL borrowing MG's car
• p57 - Date Unspecified - MG saw news article about KB and decided to check the status of her weapon

This would seem to indicate a lapse in time between when she got the car back, and when she checked the gun. If this is accurate, it may have been someone other than KKL responsible for the missing bullet, right?

Also, between p52, and p56, there seems to be some confusion about who asked to borrow a car...

View attachment 170094

sounds like kkl and ex hubby isn't all that amicable if she is making up false texts to alibi herself in case he checks her phone.
she is expecting/ anticipating him to be following her movements.

 

[Seattle1]

Oh I think it's simple- she was an aging rodeo queen desperate for a cowboy to rescue her from life as a plain-faced divorcee with two children.

I don't think he had anything on her. She is a person of low character and wanted beautiful KB out of the way so she could grasp onto the leftovers.

She's wanted that guy for years. He knew it, strung her along and capitalized on her increasing desperation.

Hear, hear!!

Any normal, human would not have given PF three opportunities to solicit them for murder .

THREE times and she was still speaking to him.

That girl ain't right. Missing more than her shame bone.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but in the final seconds of the KOAA TV drone video taken after the first search of PF's ranch, there is a corral located well below the dug up area that looks to have a dark circular mark, and about ten feet away is a round metal trough like is described. Perhaps by "scooped up" KKL meant that he picked it up with a loader, and set it in the back of his pickup truck.
If this is the spot she decribed, an open fire could certainly be seen from the porch of the house, but not with any clarity through the trees.
Drone video shows area where investigators searched Frazee property

Is that around the 7:10 mark? Thanks for that BTW