CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #41 *ARREST*

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MassGuy said:
Yes. He was clearly contacting Kelsey to arrange the pickup of the baby.

He picked her up, and took her to Walmart.

The part that he didn’t tell police, is that he returned to the house with the baby, right after leaving Walmart.

We obviously don’t know if Kelsey was expecting him to return or not, but the surveillance footage from a neighbor’s house, showed that he did.

He must have put the baby in the playpen, then gone about the killing.

I think that 3:36 surveillance image, is him leaving.
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Why wouldn't he just leave the baby in the car seat in his truck and burst in the door, which opens directly into the living room, with the bat?
Killers often describe elaborate drawn-out scenarios in confessions, when the actual crime was very short and violent. Ted Bundy was one of the best at elaborate confessions.
IMO
 
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v0x said:
If the trough contents were removed and placed elsewhere, what would be expected to be found on location? I’m curious. Truly. Based on your stats you’ve participated here much more than I have. What am I missing?
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They found evidence of everything else accept human remains. Burned ground, plastic from the tote, accelerant... so he was only thourough in scooping up and discarding her remains. Makes no sense.
 
Aydrianna523 said:
Her being needy is an understatement. Is pathological neediness a thing?
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Not in so many words but I believe there are certain disorders in which a person tends to become overly attached to people. It's common in Borderline Personality Disorder .
They tend to put the person they are attached to on a pedestal. They can do no wrong. Fear of abandonment is often what drives them to please. Jmo
 
NoNameNoSlogan said:
I've been following along but have not posted. Something in the back of my mind has been nagging me. Sorry if this has already been addressed , I do skip along sometimes. However, has anyone noticed PF got the custody papers (police found at his home, that weren't filed) in August? This month seems to have been the start of a everything. KB visits the counselor for anxiety/depression. PF tells everyone it's rehab, for alcohol & drugs, which we to know is not true. PF also told the officer who contacted him, CB was known to meet with coworkers after work sometimes, yet PF also claimed her work schedule wasn't as stable as it had been since her rehab stay in August, how they'd grown apart, lived separate lives, and all that. Yet, we know she had her daughter when not working.

I guess what I'm getting at, is imo PF and KB weren't completely broken up. KB probably caught PF seeing KK in August, imo. Since this seems to be when everything started going downhill so fast. The same month PF gets papers he doesn't file for custody. PF and KB start having disagreements over custody. She sees a counselor for something bothering her, murder plots start hatching. All of this, Yet she's still comfortable enough to let him come in and visit? Blindfold her? The neighbor said she thought he lived there, because she always saw his truck. Doesn't sound to me like two people whom had been fighting everyday over custody agreements.

Imo KB found out PF was cheating, again. He had probably been caught before, and with this same diabolical woman KK. KB probably had enough imo, and instead of forgiveness, decided they should completely separate and he lost his mind.

I can't help but wonder, if the unnamed male dna may be from the coworker from work. And PF couldn't handle having done to him what, what he was doing to KB?

Sorry, something just seems to be missing to me.
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Around the time KB sought treatment for depression, he and his mother, SF, met with attorneys to try to get sole custody.

I believe KK was simply a pawn in his game. KK was desperate and he was only using her. He tricked KK into falling in love with him in attempt to get her to kill. KB, IMO, knew who he really was and he killed KB to avenge the masculinity she took from him.

He wanted to continue his dream of being "Rock-star Cowboy" and make all the girls he'd sleep with believe it while his mommy raised little K.

PF is an evil, pathetic little man that needs to rot in prison for LWOP.
 
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MsBetsy said:
I was just about to ask if it is known whether or not he got rid of the whole thing. If he dumped it in the river all the evidence would likely be gone. Imo
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Is there a river at the Florissant Ranch?
 
Seattle1 said:

Prior to the preliminary hearing, my motto had been that I didn't care if the jurors hated KK, just as long as they believed what she had to say about PF.

Today, knowing what was revealed to us about both PF and KK's brutal, unconscionable, actions against KB, I'm seething!

I'm seething about "plea deals," and the resultant injustice to the victims.

I'm seething that KK confided in so many people about PF's solicitation to murder KB, and all remained silent.

I'm seething that nobody warned KB, or the authorities.

And I'm sorry to say this, but I'm fuming over what appears to be the gross incompetence of the WPPD in investigating the crime scene (KB's condo)!! There, I said it!

Yes, I hope that I'm completely wrong here but it really seems to me that the only reason PF was arrested on 12/21, and not before, was because KK had to provide them the evidence required to do so.

Unless proven otherwise, I don't believe that WPPD had any any evidence that KB was murdered, and/or murdered in her home, up until KK fed it to them. Phone records are good, but they won't convict PF.

I believe WPPD considered KB a woman that was having relationship issues, and that she took a break away from PF. I also believe that "local" PF's word mattered more over the outsider KB, and detectives delayed thinking and/or believing KB could be a victim of homicide.

I'm angry that DA May made a deal with the devil, but I'm more angry that it doesn't appear to me that he had much choice! -- I feel his pain, I think we all do -- especially after the hearing.

I'm also aware that CB texted WPPD that she believed she found blood in KB's condo, and I'll never understand why it was KB's mother that located blood evidence, and not the trained detectives.

I have to trust that PF will go away for the remainder of his life, and there will be justice for KB, but I do worry now that the jurors will hate KK more than believe her! It's pretty easy to want to finger her as the murderer. I know the evidence points to PF, but his defense only needs one juror with reasonable doubt.

KK getting a pass, and not being severely punished, is just a difficult pill to swallow today.

MOO
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I kinda victim blamed KK at first and got deleted but that was just when I accused her of only in theory agreeing to drive the phone home to imply KB left on her own.. it once occurred to me maybe this knuckle head baby daddy woo’d KK and said here’s a romantic Christmas gift (KB’s phone) don’t open until Christmas - clearly he’s equally as deranged just not that quick witted. Now I’m finally caught up and I’m in utter SHOCK! Who could do this? His part and hers and his mothers and her co-worker and the opportunist lawyer couple.. how can people like this even exist? How is this story not the plot of a season of American Horror Story? It honestly bruises my faith in goodness.
 
Dave F. said:
Why wouldn't he just leave the baby in the car seat in his truck and burst in the door, which opens directly into the living room, with the bat?
Killers often describe elaborate drawn-out scenarios in confessions, when the actual crime was very short and violent. Ted Bundy was one of the best at elaborate confessions.
IMO
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Because he wanted to get away with this.

Everything had to seem normal in order for him to successfully pull this off.

The way that he claimed to KK, makes a lot of sense.

He was able to kill her without her screaming, without anyone knowing, clean himself up, and go about his business.
 
Wonder what the nearest river is? Looking now. Did he have a boat? Wonder if any of his fishing buddies wife's are on here? Just wishing her family could bring her home.
 
MassGuy said:
Yes. He was clearly contacting Kelsey to arrange the pickup of the baby.

He picked her up, and took her to Walmart.

The part that he didn’t tell police, is that he returned to the house with the baby, right after leaving Walmart.

We obviously don’t know if Kelsey was expecting him to return or not, but the surveillance footage from a neighbor’s house, showed that he did.

He must have put the baby in the playpen, then gone about the killing.

I think that 3:36 surveillance image, is him leaving.
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That's how I interpret the timeline, too. IMO, he was at Walmart only long enough to buy a couple of scented candles. He pretended to be "Mr. Thoughtful" bringing KB a romantic little surprise gift of scented candles. And just such a darn cute and playful cowboy that he wanted to play a fun, little guessing game with his candle gift. Just imagining the level of evil, depravity and deceit is nauseating. Poor, naive KB. MOO.
 
acutename said:
I find her whole cleaning exercise weird. She does this for 3-4 hrs- obviously it could have been done for longer- it seems as if she ran out of energy and ran out of supplies. People have said "how could she eat after this," but she does not seem so much horrified and disgusted as just a person who drove a long way and did a lot of cleaning and she just gets hungry like a person doing house work. On some level like a hyena, she seems to revel in the blood- does she think at that point that it proves that PF likes her (KK) because he killed KB? On the other hand, all the blood makes for more work...why for her? Why is this her task? Does she have a master/slave relationship with PF where he assigns her tasks or like a gang where she is supposed to become a "good criminal?" PF still lives at the ranch and she does things such as "drops the metal pipe off at the ranch gate at night." These two do not seem to be lovers so much as criminals together. It also seems IMO that when she "fails" at the coffee and the metal pipe, she is superficially compliant with PF, but she really does not want to do this, so she fails and escapes. Wonder if there are demonstrable threats from him. Wonder if the 3-4 hrs cleaning are another way she is being only superficially compliant, and she is thinking that there are some small spots left but she is not going to "do a better job" to spite PF. Wonder also if she does eventually start to think she is next and there was nothing wrong with KB.
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Maybe it was her mess to clean up because she's the one who hatched the murder plans. After all, she admits to stalking Kelsey to kill her.

She was there for one reason: because she was part of this conspiracy and she wanted to go.
 
Dave F. said:
Humans leave DNA samples wherever they go. The current state of police technology is such that if there is DNA anywhere in that small condo, they probably found it. Certainly the defense will raise the question of who it was.
My thought that if they found two random DNA samples, and abundant amounts of PF's DNA, then the condo probably wasn't cleaned quite as well as KKL described. IMO
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Didn't Kelseys family stay there after it was cleaned, though?
 
With all the information KK disclosed with very elaborate details, she never disclosed a motive that I read or heard. She said he told her that KB was abusing drugs/alcohol and abusing the baby which was never corroborated. What is his motive? LE says could be custody because of the paperwork from August that wasn't filed found in his house but it seemed like KB let him pick up the baby and take her out at least. According to him, they shared the time based on their work schedules and perhaps holiday schedules to share time with the baby with their families, etc.

But she was still in charge because she was the mom and likely did primary care because there was no formal parenting time agreement? He had a family law attorney and he appeared to have that relationship at least in the beginning of this missing person now murder case. She seems to know every detail, what about motive?

No calls to social services regarding KB's parenting or lack of, no reports from her workplace regarding issues with substance abuse. No friends commenting on her parenting. It's like he was living a double life. One with her taking care of the baby and doing a great job at it while he bad mouthed her to his family, mistress, and anyone who would listen about how she was a rotten mother.
 
sunshineandlove said:
With all the information KK disclosed with very elaborate details, she never disclosed a motive that I read or heard. She said he told her that KB was abusing drugs/alcohol and abusing the baby which was never corroborated. What is his motive? LE says could be custody because of the paperwork from August that wasn't filed found in his house but it seemed like KB let him pick up the baby and take her out at least. According to him, they shared the time based on their work schedules and perhaps holiday schedules to share time with the baby with their families, etc.

But she was still in charge because she was the mom and likely did primary care because there was no formal parenting time agreement? He had a family law attorney and he appeared to have that relationship at least in the beginning of this missing person now murder case. She seems to know every detail, what about motive?

No calls to social services regarding KB's parenting or lack of, no reports from her workplace regarding issues with substance abuse. No friends commenting on her parenting. It's like he was living a double life. One with her taking care of the baby and doing a great job at it while he bad mouthed her to his family, mistress, and anyone who would listen about how she was a rotten mother.
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You’re absolutely right. We haven’t heard why from her. Her why or his. How did she explain why she did this.
 
sunshineandlove said:
So the night before Thanksgiving, he contacts her and says he has an ulcer and needs meds and someone to check on the cows. Allegedly, she willingly spends until the wee hours out doing these things for him. (Guessing there is surveillance if she went to a store to get a prescription or some sort of medication for him, and also her cell would ping out by his place or wherever his cattle were.) The next morning, she talks to her Mom and everything is good, she and PF are going to do things together for Thanksgiving and she's planning to make a recipe hence the trip to Safeway. Next he's at her house helping her carry in her groceries and flowers, then he takes Baby K and goes to Walmart (to get what?), then returns to her house with Baby K and apparently a candle or two, and then he beats her to death?

When exactly did they break up as her aunt said they broke up that day. There is a lot of missing information and I don't think KK knows that part of the story. Something major is missing.
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Good question. Seems far more likely that they were up half the night arguing. But here we are with the ulcer and cattle story. Did Kelsey tell her mother this? Or did it come from KK?
 
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