CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #43 *ARREST*

[The Farm]

Do you think the burner phones are going to come into play and paint a different picture on KK's whereabout during the time LE believes KB was murdered?

The burner phones are bothering me and that they purchased them says to me they thought of the idea of being tracked to some extent. KK's phone could have been left in Idaho and she used one of those burner phones.
We do not have a definite time or day KB was killed, only that LE believes it was 11/22.

 

[JaneEyre]

I honestly don't know what to make of it. In order for her to have taken a shot from that gun, she would obviously have to go to the car and get it, which makes it intentional in terms of using it.

what could she possibly shoot at- I mean, Kelsey was already deceased. Maybe an animal that frightened her? What else would she shoot at? Of course, one's mind could wander and say maybe she felt threatened by someone and took a shot near them, to make a getaway.

It makes me wonder, what did SF think about them burning that tote? Why would they burn it in front of the house, of all places? Wasn't there another area on that ranch that they could have done this? What did SF think of Krystal?

And wouldn’t SF smell flesh burning? It’s not like like when a fire is out, that the smell magically dissipates. It would have to be a very hot fire to burn a body in the first place and it would take some time. The smell would linger.

 

[InvSmith]

Off topic slightly but I write quotes on my mirrors and I have that one now written up in her memory xx

Knowing what we have been presented with to date, it is painfully clear that there would have been NO peaceful agreement in Baby K's life for her mother. She would have to give up her rights to her child or be subjected to all manner of abuse, stress, and control. This was that escalation of abuse and control.

 

[InvSmith]

I believe KB's short stay also referenced her exhaustion IIRC. Can you even imagine how KB was feeling? She's just had a sweet baby, things aren't going according to plan with PF so I'm sure KB was disappointed. She was making an extreme commute to work and caring for little K. I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

All the while PF and KK were plotting and scheming behind her back.

I am guessing PF my have a misguided idea that children stay sweet, cute, and controllable for a lifetime. I am glad it is something we do not have to see when he realizes children have a mind, temperament, and personality of their own. This should start to show any month now.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Good morning

7 inches of snow here in the Springs overnight and still snowing. Doesn't look like that dump search on Tuesday is going to be easy. moo

 

[Deleted member 102539]

At the PC after this horrible information dump, JV/DM from the DA's office both said it was still an ongoing investigation. I hope so!

FYI: The Woodland Park Police Department is still offering the $25k reward for information leading to Kelsey Berreth’s discovery. #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney @KOAA
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1097866410959589376.html

 

[Only4Justice]

But there is no way you wouldn't go over each surface twice if your real intention was to get rid of the evidence... Imo not that I would ever do that in first place but surely you would be meticulous is my point

If KK truthfully wanted to leave something for cops, she could have left the tooth. Then they could positively identify Kelsey. IMO

 

[InvSmith]

PrairieWind said:


I am not sure I agree with the bolded portion above. Very early in the investigation, they would have no idea if the baby was in danger or not, imo. If they suspected that he killed his ex-girlfriend, mother of the child, they'd have to assume he would be capable of killing again. They couldn't take the chance that there wasn't a financial motive of some kind, some insurance or inheritance etc. They really wouldn't know what was going on at the beginning and why take the chance? JMO


I applaud them for the speed with which they moved on this ugly crime. JMO

I think this child was in grave danger from what we know of PF. He obviously has no control of himself or his impulses. This even includes his mid to long term planning abilities. He obviously placed the child in horrendous danger during the homicide. All the activities described including multiple attempts on KB's life, his recklessness, verbal abuse do not happen away from the child. She is present in all the dangers. He had no guarantee how KKL would react around KB in these incidents and surely the child was present.

 

[susiQ]

I am guessing PF my have a misguided idea that children stay sweet, cute, and controllable for a lifetime. I am glad it is something we do not have to see when he realizes children have a mind, temperament, and personality of their own. This should start to show any month now.

VERY frightening thought knowing what he did to KB, for what? Baby K is safe, and although knowledge of this when she's older will surely give her pain in her heart, she is with KB's loving, gentle, kind, long suffering family that will raise her with a conscience, to be like her beloved mother. That's something PF, or even SF, could NEVER do.

 

[oviedo]

BBM
Nooooooooooo, what makes you think that's possible? KK is a sick and depraved individual for participating to the extent we know of, but surely, please tell me she couldn't stoop even lower??

ETA: couldn't vs could

Her detailed recollection when she finally told “her” truth was astonishing to me - she had driven all night and cleaned for hours - her level of exhaustion must have been high- I think she used her phone to take pictures - perhaps as a trophy or to remind herself what PF had done for her ? There is a possibility she sent a picture to him as proof of her cleanup - and got rid of that phone dec 4 -all speculation and JMO

 

[Dave F.]

Ok, again only an opinion and it was taken from this;

• Adams says he also recovered video of PF at the drive through of Ent Credit Union. He says he couldn’t see the baby in the truck, but did see a baby carrier.
• Two more exhibits from the state. First is a still of PF on the surveillance at the bank showing him. Second shows the back of his truck, with a black tote in it. He says they learned that tote played a big role in what happened to KB

Of course I don't know, I just assumed. I mlove an they're asking for the charge to be dropped. They said the alleged robbery happened after the alleged murder. I once saw where defense for Robert Durst stated home dismemberment of someone didn't matter and couldn't be used against him, because it happened after the murder.

So it was/is an opinion only. The above is from the 1st page of this link. I will now try to find the uploaded information about the bank. Again, I'm not saying it's the robbery charge. Just saying it was mentioned, and I could see where it would be implied.

Honestly, unless he's on video with her purse, how would it be proven he took it, opposed to KK putting it in the bags?

KKL said that PF took the purse, tried to get her to take it to Idaho, and she refused, but it really doesn't matter. PF directed the removal of KB's purse from her possession. That is robbery. IMO

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

The burner phones are bothering me and that they purchased them says to me they thought of the idea of being tracked to some extent. KK's phone could have been left in Idaho and she used one of those burner phones.
We do not have a definite time or day KB was killed, only that LE believes it was 11/22.

We have to remember KK's "Idaho phone" pinged in all the areas close to KB's, as found thru her cell phone records - incoming and outgoing. We also have her friend borrow her truck and KK using the friends car. This occurred on the 23rd. LE interviewed her friend, and, IMO, used the friends cell info to prove that statement.

IMO, LE didn't just find all their info and evidence from KK. They did the obvious thing by getting PF's cell. They also, IMO, got his cell info (calls, etc.) from his carrier. Along with KB's. With that info, IMO, they were able to piece together some sort of time line. They also, IMO, checked out the numbers he called, and, reached out to those people. They, also, obviously, IMO, pulled video from stores located in the area of where KB was last seen - the Safeway grocery store.

I agree with you about the burner phones. They thought about using them a little too late. Some things just slip your mind when you murder the mother of your child and have your alleged GF clean up your mess.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Her detailed recollection when she finally told “her” truth was astonishing to me - she had driven all night and cleaned for hours - her level of exhaustion must have been high- I think she used her phone to take pictures - perhaps as a trophy or to remind herself what PF had done for her ? There is a possibility she sent a picture to him as proof of her cleanup - and got rid of that phone dec 4 -all speculation and JMO

The thing that will always shoot those theories down is the fact that she still had her phone AFTER the clean up. If she took pics, that would certainly be on PF's phone. Things deleted seldom stay that way.
I had the thought maybe she would have taken pics, as well. We don't have all the real "evidence", per se.

As far as the exhaustion - she maybe drinking one of those Starbucks double triple quadruple espressos.

Same here with the IMO and speculation.

 

[Dave F.]

But didn’t KK take the purse? Perhaps why the robbery charge may be dropped?

Clipped from a 9News article, link below:
“Slater said Lee told her Frazee gave her Berreth’s cellphone. Lee said she also took a purse from Berreth’s condo and brought it with her to Frazee’s home. “

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

From a strategy point of view, the defense never wants to give the jury a multiple choice question. They prefer it be a straight yes or no choice. The defense was attempting to get the choice removed arguing the premise that stealing from a dead person is not robbery........it's some other form of theft not covered in the Murder with Robbery statute, and began citing case law to prove his point. The prosecution countered that the statute is very clear, it applies to the crime, and the jury should decide. Sometimes lawyers and judges can say a whole lot with very few words. IMO

 

[trailrunningmrs.]

I honestly don't know what to make of it. In order for her to have taken a shot from that gun, she would obviously have to go to the car and get it, which makes it intentional in terms of using it.

what could she possibly shoot at- I mean, Kelsey was already deceased. Maybe an animal that frightened her? What else would she shoot at? Of course, one's mind could wander and say maybe she felt threatened by someone and took a shot near them, to make a getaway.

It makes me wonder, what did SF think about them burning that tote? Why would they burn it in front of the house, of all places? Wasn't there another area on that ranch that they could have done this? What did SF think of Krystal?

Just a thought, as twisted as this whole case is, nothing would surprise me at this point.

The whole thing screams overkill.

What if PF carried out the murder and then KK fired the gun at the corpse per PF’s request (or her own idea) so they were tied to it together should any physical evidence be recovered or should she decide to talk?

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I saved the info on a post I made.
Sorry to repost my own comment, but, people do the most heinous acts when faced with something you may not have control over anymore in the future.
There is no way to understand some things people do. Often, at that point in time, it becomes the only thing you believe will remedy the problem standing in your way of getting what you want or think you deserve. That's nothing new to any of us here.
Thread #37 Post #55

This is why I'm sort of leaning towards a discussion between PF and KB regarding custody back in October. Just KB knocking around a suggestion. I know she could have mentioned it to her mom, but, maybe she was just bouncing it off PF. Maybe change up her life. None of us know what or why something precipitated this senseless murder. YET. Feb 19th coming up.
IMO, it might have been something that would restrict his mom to just visitation. Not daily physical presence of Kaylee. Perhaps, even child support from PF.

I hate "case dropping", but, the Rhoden massacre boiled down to, in essence, just that. Custody of Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden's child, Sofia. Most horrific and deviously planned brutal murder of 8 people I've ever seen.
The Wagners planned and plotted for several month before executing their absolutely inhumane slaughter of this family. They even forged custody documents.


Lord, it's sad to even have to have thoughts like this.

 

[Yellow Rose]

How many honestly think KK left evidence specifically so that LE would have a path back to her? I don’t think there’s many if anyone that thinks that.

 

[Aydrianna523]

How many honestly think KK left evidence specifically so that LE would have a path back to her? I don’t think there’s many if anyone that thinks that.

No. I don't believe it because she lied to the police so much. I figure it was more of an alibi. She wanted to get out of the crime scene and maybe was due home too. Or remembered missed areas on her way home.

 

[trailrunningmrs.]

How many honestly think KK left evidence specifically so that LE would have a path back to her? I don’t think there’s many if anyone that thinks that.

I don’t think purposely, but I did just mention that maybe she fired a gun at the corpse...with the idea that they were in it together.

Your question is good and obviously make me think about my statement. Maybe it was more of an emotional bonding?

 

[Irmese]

I think KK's statements are the sort of usual self-serving lies that liars tell. I believe they decided to kill KB together and she wanted to get rid of KB as badly as PF did. PF tried to manipulate her into doing it, but she knew she was physically incapable of beating KB to death, and we only have KK's word that she didn't poison the coffee. I can't imagine KB would drink it, probably said thanks and threw it away, as anyone in their right mind would. So PF continues pushing KK to do it for him, she drives down to do it but knows she has no good way to get KB under control. He sees a chance on TG and does it, but there's really no plan because both PF ad KK were trying to get each other to do it. PF tells KK, I did your part now you get down here and clean up the mess. I think PF originally thought KK would commit the murder to make it look like a robbery, so there wouldn't be any possibility of his being seen at KB's condo. I also think PF was going to make sure KK would get caught. He would have gotten a twofer. I do not believe KK knew that the phones were going to lead LE to her. Like most people, she knows cell phones can be traced, but she thought she was smarter than LE. I also don't believe she left blood evidence for LE to find. I think once she left the condo, she was afraid she'd be seen going back to finish.

ETA MOO