CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[BingoBongo]

According to Idaho's iCourt Portal, KKL's divorce from CL was filed on April 29, 2016 and final decree June 27,2016.

 

[LietKynes]

I had a long post about #47 and it got zapped when we rethreaded . What I was saying is, there is only a paragraph between being thought a liar , to assuming you are telling the truth. #47 plainly says she lied to FBI . I am not sure this gal knows how to tell the truth even under oath.
I think a lot of the details are the truth but on the fence about a couple. Who lies to FBI?

As an outside observer (and poster) to this case... I've had to 'choose' between the lesser of two evils.
Of which PF is the most heinous and vile.

If KK walks away completely free -- it's nauseating, considering what she knew beforehand and was asked to commit.

But I'd doubt she'd ever be a threat to baby K. Which concerned me as if PF is ever released this little baby could be in danger of kidnapping or worse.
I'd still be wary if I were the Berreth family.
Hoping that none of the Frazee's are allowed visits or any contact.
Sad it has to be like that.

Are both PF and KK self-serving liars ? Absolutely.
But unless there's new proven information -- I think PF murdered Kelsey by himself.

 

[BingoBongo]

If PF is as I believe him to be, personality disorder-wise, he need not have a specific motive to have murdered KB. His rage wasn't necessarily driven by any one thing, it's just *who he is*.

At some point, something, now or later, would have fired up his rage enough to end, or to attmept end, her life.

If things had been different; i.e. someone who had prior knowledge of the plans had done the right thing and notified LE, she would probably still be enjoying her life.

 

[MemPat]

I had a long post about #47 and it got zapped when we rethreaded . What I was saying is, there is only a paragraph between being thought a liar , to assuming you are telling the truth. #47 plainly says she lied to FBI . I am not sure this gal knows how to tell the truth even under oath.
I think a lot of the details are the truth but on the fence about a couple. Who lies to FBI?

"Who lies to FBI?" Rhetorical?

 

[MemPat]

I think that the custody issue may have been what caused his extreme hatred of her. He may have been used to controlling her, and then along comes a baby and 1- she loves that child more than him, 2- the child rules all of her decisions, and 3- she’s no longer a push-over for his controlling behavior because now the child’s well-being is the most important. He can’t just have whatever he wants, the way he wants it anymore. And now, she just may be thinking of leaving in order to raise that child among her loving and supportive family. Once she and the child are surrounded by love and support, it will be even harder for him to get his way.

That’s when custody issues arise. And each time she doesn’t respond how he expects her to, does not cave to his manipulations, he becomes even angrier. Add to that, he’s trying to get KK to solve his problem for him. She’s always done everything he asks. She’s easily manipulated. Except for some reason she can’t seem to actually kill someone for him. Frustration with KK builds as she fails to do his bidding 3 times, anger toward KB builds, until he’s so enraged that he goes after KB with a baseball bat.

This was a violent, rage-filled attack, that only he could have committed. And while custody was likely part of it, I think the underlying reason this was so violent is because he had lost control over KB, the child, and even KK.

Good post, JaneEyre!

 

[susiQ]

She probably has no idea how lucky she is not to have ended up in the burn pile.

She better hope like all get out that the jury believes her despite her reprehensible character and lying a$$ and they lock him away for good. Because if not, she'll be sleeping with one eye open for the rest of her living days. MOO

 

[otto]

Just catching up with all the timelines. Thank you so much to those who put all that information together! It really paints a clear picture of what they did.

What struck me as I was halfway through is that if they had tossed out the cinnamon buns, it would have been more difficult to determine when she was last seen. That is, her phone was travelling all over the place, so it would have been more difficult to say that she was not with her phone except for the fresh baked buns that were left to cool.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes. There is a lot unknown. I think much will remain unknown. I should've added to my list that PF was trying for awhile to tell people KB had issues. Drugs. Alcohol. Child abuse. Why if he was not concerned about custody?

Yes. He was gathering evidence to use against her in court, I think.
I see it happen all the time. Each parent accuses the other of horrible things, resulting in the judge ordering drug and alcohol evaluations, drug testing, psychological evals, etc. Some people do it just to hold everything up and make the other have to dish out a ton of money.
No wonder they call it a custody battle. Jmo

 

[gitana1]

Snipped for brevity and BBM

Agreed and well said !
Curious now to see if PF still defends mommy dearest. Or if he'll turn on her.
He must know there's a good chance he's going down, so why not take everyone he can place blame upon ?
I'm sure he thought she'd just be declared missing and he would have the baby all to himself.
Well, himself and his mother.

Curious... if he planned to get rid of KK at some point ?
She should just be thankful she's alive.
I'm not feeling sorry for her.

Yeah. She could easily have been next. She knew too much. And in fact, she's the one taking him down.

I'm not feeling sorry for her either. Couldn't care less about HER safety.

 

[gitana1]

I think that the custody issue may have been what caused his extreme hatred of her. He may have been used to controlling her, and then along comes a baby and 1- she loves that child more than him, 2- the child rules all of her decisions, and 3- she’s no longer a push-over for his controlling behavior because now the child’s well-being is the most important. He can’t just have whatever he wants, the way he wants it anymore. And now, she just may be thinking of leaving in order to raise that child among her loving and supportive family. Once she and the child are surrounded by love and support, it will be even harder for him to get his way.

That’s when custody issues arise. And each time she doesn’t respond how he expects her to, does not cave to his manipulations, he becomes even angrier. Add to that, he’s trying to get KK to solve his problem for him. She’s always done everything he asks. She’s easily manipulated. Except for some reason she can’t seem to actually kill someone for him. Frustration with KK builds as she fails to do his bidding 3 times, anger toward KB builds, until he’s so enraged that he goes after KB with a baseball bat.

This was a violent, rage-filled attack, that only he could have committed. And while custody was likely part of it, I think the underlying reason this was so violent is because he had lost control over KB, the child, and even KK.

That's an interesting scenario. Makes a lot of sense psychologically.

 

[v0x]

Yes. He was gathering evidence to use against her in court, I think.
I see it happen all the time. Each parent accuses the other of horrible things, resulting in the judge ordering drug and alcohol evaluations, drug testing, psychological evals, etc. Some people do it just to hold everything up and make the other have to dish out a ton of money.
No wonder they call it a custody battle. Jmo

If by “gathering evidence” you meant “fabricating stories” there, I’d tend to agree.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

And yet, the only excuses we've seen in posts have been excusing PF. Either claiming he's not the real murderer, or he was the terrified pawn of KK or he was the idiotic fool of hers and did what she compelled him to do.

Given the actual evidence and what we've heard and seen of his demeanor and/or character, that's astounding.

I haven't excused him. I believe he's 100 % guilty.
The anger at her is justified. She will fully went along with him 100%. Used her feminine wiles to use and manipulate others into helping her

And yet, the only excuses we've seen in posts have been excusing PF. Either claiming he's not the real murderer, or he was the terrified pawn of KK or he was the idiotic fool of hers and did what she compelled him to do.

Given the actual evidence and what we've heard and seen of his demeanor and/or character, that's astounding.

Not from me.
He is 100% guilty. She went along willingly. Using,and manimulating many people along the way to help her,help him murder a beautiful sweet mother. Lied to her devoted ex, and ruined her own children's lives too.
I dont believe she did the murder herself. But I do not for one second believe she didn't put her own personal stamp of approval on this, to be rid of her love rival.
She is manipulative, and caniving.
Who sends the mother you plan to help murder baby clothes as if they're your friend?
That's anti feminist to the core.
MOO

 

[Steelslady]

She probably has no idea how lucky she is not to have ended up in the burn pile.

You said a mouthful there.

 

[otto]

Snipped for brevity and BBM

Agreed and well said !
Curious now to see if PF still defends mommy dearest. Or if he'll turn on her.
He must know there's a good chance he's going down, so why not take everyone he can place blame upon ?
I'm sure he thought she'd just be declared missing and he would have the baby all to himself.
Well, himself and his mother.

Curious... if he planned to get rid of KK at some point ?
She should just be thankful she's alive.
I'm not feeling sorry for her.

I'm not convinced that his mother knew what was going on. There was a similar case discussed a couple of years ago (Liknes/O'Brien victims). A man, who lived with his parents, murdered three people and burned them on his parent's acreage. There was no one else there to say whether his parents asked what he was burning, perhaps they did. Either way, they had no idea that he was burning three bodies in view of the house.

I think that could easily be the case here as well.

 

[Seattle1]

Just catching up with all the timelines. Thank you so much to those who put all that information together! It really paints a clear picture of what they did.

What struck me as I was halfway through is that if they had tossed out the cinnamon buns, it would have been more difficult to determine when she was last seen. That is, her phone was travelling all over the place, so it would have been more difficult to say that she was not with her phone except for the fresh baked buns that were left to cool.

And I'm still wondering why KK didn't toss the covered rolls out!

Instead, she just removed and tossed the blood splattered foil covering them.

 

[PommyMommy]

Investigators will start searching the Midway Landfill in Fountain for evidence related to the disappearance and presumed death of Kelsey Berreth.

 

[gitana1]

I haven't excused him. I believe he's 100 % guilty.
The anger at her is justified. She will fully went along with him 100%. Used her feminine wiles to use and manipulate others into helping her

Not from me.
He is 100% guilty. She went along willingly. Using,and manimulating many people along the way to help her,help him murder a beautiful sweet mother. Lied to her devoted ex, and ruined her own children's lives too.
I dont believe she did the murder herself. But I do not for one second believe she didn't put her own personal stamp of approval on this, to be rid of her love rival.
She is manipulative, and caniving.
Who sends the mother you plan to help murder baby clothes as if they're your friend?
That's anti feminist to the core.
MOO

I agree with all you've written (except the "feminine wiles" part).

This is a woman for whom her own needs and desires took precedence over her own children. Their emotional well being. Their stability and welfare. Due to narcissistic desperation and rage she conspired to murder an innocent woman and fellow mother.

I think, in fact, that the discovery that KB had a baby was something that drove her even harder to want KB dead. I think it enraged her. Because it's living proof that her man - the love of her life - was with someone else and gave that prettier, sweeter woman a child. Where most parents would feel a reluctance or pang about murdering another parent just because they feel for the child, this was one was motivated to make sure KB was eliminated, BECAUSE she had PF's baby.

And woe to little K had their plan succeeded and PF ever got together with KK for real. I don't think it would've happened (he didn't really want KK) but if it had I'm betting little K would've been at high risk for abuse and neglect at KK's hands.

My argument isn't with you. It's with the concept that she is the real killer, the mastermind, or as culpable as the actual murderer: The man who betrayed the woman he bore a child with and pretended to love and who harmed his own child by killing her mama.

ETA: I'm not sure why not believing KK was the killer or was the mastermind or even as culpable as the actual murderer (there's a reason we have different charges and sentences for different acts), is being equated as not being angry at her or not understanding that anger. Haven't all of us who disagree that she's just as or more guilty been super clear about how disgusting and evil KK is?

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not convinced that his mother knew what was going on. There was a similar case discussed a couple of years ago (Liknes/O'Brien victims). A man, who lived with his parents, murdered three people and burned them on his parent's acreage. There was no one else there to say whether his parents asked what he was burning, perhaps they did. Either way, they had no idea that he was burning three bodies in view of the house.

I think that could easily be the case here as well.

It’s entirely possible that she didn’t know what was happening, but if she did know, there’s just no way to prove it.

KK didn’t go as far as to say that SF knew what it was that was being burned, and her word isn’t going to be enough to reach any sort of conclusion here.

So maybe, maybe not.

 

[Steelslady]

Snipped for brevity and BBM

Agreed and well said !
Curious now to see if PF still defends mommy dearest. Or if he'll turn on her.
He must know there's a good chance he's going down, so why not take everyone he can place blame upon ?
I'm sure he thought she'd just be declared missing and he would have the baby all to himself.
Well, himself and his mother.

Curious... if he planned to get rid of KK at some point ?
She should just be thankful she's alive.
I'm not feeling sorry for her.

I think this was his way of getting rid of the both of them, to be honest. He tried to get Krystal to kill Kelsey three times- he wanted Krystal's DNA there. I bet Krystal wasn't in full Hazmat gear when she was bringing coffee or the rod or bat. With Kelsey being deceased and Krystal in jail, he would be free again, with custody of Baby K.

 

[Hatch]

The statements are being misunderstood. In each numbered paragraph, there is a statement or statements by KK. For many of those, the reporting officer will state whether there is reason to believe that particular statement or set of statements, or not.

So, for paragraph 47, the statement she made it to her ex or not reliable. However in other paragraphs, the statements she made to LE are considered reliable for various reasons.

Thx