CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #53 *ARREST*

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I agree one thousand percent. I am open to discussions and it is bothersome when someone says we are going “out into the weeds” by discussing varying scenarios. Thanks Ilovechili.
I'm sorry if my comment bothered you, but I think you misunderstood what I said. I didn't say anybody was out in the weeds. I said we need some news before the thread gets out into the weeds. MOO
I am an optimist as well. :) Just jumping off your post to say that I'm a little disappointed we haven't heard anything about ABC's 2/27 request for the hearing exhibits and CBS's 3/6 request for a transcript. We need something to chew on here before this thread gets too far out into the weeds. MOO
 
I'm sorry if my comment bothered you, but I think you misunderstood what I said. I didn't say anybody was out in the weeds. I said we need some news before the thread gets out into the weeds. MOO
Yeah I did misquote you and I apologize. Your quotes are always fair Pommymommy and you almost always back up your words with links, etc. You provide us lots on information on many threads I have seen. So I am sorry.

Just generally speaking, we all have PF crucified at this point and rightly so it seems. But I do wonder how many people he involved in his plan or cover up and/or how many people were willing accomplices. I would think he couldn’t keep a lid on a murder of the mother of his child. But seems to me he has a lot of people convinced he is a good guy. That’s why I am interested in discussing others and their level of guilt, especially, but not limited to, KKL.

Of course we cannot do that unless someone is charged or testimony is given in the courtroom. I keep saying it will be an interesting trial.
 
Good point, but doesn't calling the cops after he leaves kind of defeat the purpose of preferential treatment of a wealthier customer? IMO

I just thought that if the manager was used to seeing RS, she might step out of her office to address his request on behalf of PF. Once she heard the exchange, she realized something wasn't right and it wasn't actually RS who was suspicious, it was his much younger 'son'.

I don't think RS improved their chances with the manager when he said it was about the 'missing' woman but then told the manager to forget they'd been there.
 
Good point, but doesn't calling the cops after he leaves kind of defeat the purpose of preferential treatment of a wealthier customer? IMO

It was still 'preferential' treatment. The bank manager stepped up to see if she could help them.

But that doesn't negate the fact that they were acting very shady and a call to LE was reasonable on her part. JMO
 
Dave F., I think it's possible the bank manager came out for RS, who probably is a more valued customer than PF.

It notes in the SW that the Branch Manager reported PF was accompanied to the bank on 12/06 by an "unknown male."

Whoever this mystery dude with the wildly inappropriate "sense of humor" is that came in to the bank with PF probably isn't a valued customer, since the Branch Manager didn't know him from Adam. LE hasn't named the person publicly.

Yet.

The trial's still a long way off. I expect we'll be hearing names then, but not before.

JMO.
 
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@Dave F.
I see members are questioning the above. Please provide a link to substantiate that LE has stated PF was with RS on Thanksgiving. Otherwise it's rumor and posts related to it will have to be removed.

Thanks.
CC and PC have both publicly claimed that PF spent the day after KB's disappearance with them, and the pings do nothing to deny that claim.
Can you please provide appropriate link where CC and PC publicly claimed that PF spent day after Thanksgiving with them.

Or is it RS, now?

I believe all these claims are rumors only, and therefore violate TOS.

MOO

ETA: Nowhere does search warrant cite that CC, PC, or RS spent day after Thanksgiving with PF. Inferring them from phone pings does not make it true.
 
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Can you please provide appropriate link where CC and PC publicly claimed that PF spent day after Thanksgiving with them.

Or is it RS, now?

I believe all these claims are rumors only, and therefore violate TOS.

MOO

ETA: Nowhere does search warrant cite that CC, PC, or RS spent day after Thanksgiving with PF.
Search Warrant 18-118, Attachment A, Page 13, first paragraph:
(in the description of events of the evening of November 22, 2018)
“When factoring the small time frame of two minutes between records,

Huh?

Inferring who lives within minutes and/or near location where LE states PF phone pinged doesn't make it fact, and not a substitute for credible link as requested by @sillybilly .

MOO
 
Blood on the ceiling is a bit hard to explain in the bathroom.

Missed blood everywhere in visits prior is also a bit hard to explain whether the alleged murder that day was in the living room or the bathroom. Did Baby K's toys or anything test for bleach, dish soap or other residue from cleaning? The wiped down frig and more? I guess those answers will come.

As for search warrants and Swiffer (trademark) mop, more is always taken than matters on search warrants and much often ends up not mattering at trial. I doubt all numerous pairs of jeans and gray shirts and boots for instance are going to be relevant, or all teeth unless there are serial murders and teeth that are kept as trophies for him or his family.

As far as a Swiffer presumptive for blood, it could be KK gifting cleaning tools to SF after clean-up or they were even taken or loaned from SF and then returned, it could be SF cleaning up after KK or PF walking in with bloody shoes, it could be mopping up some hamburger blood after it leaked walking a package from the sink or butchering and more. We heard of presumptive tests but I do not recall confirmatory tests, a big difference, like iced tea powder being mistaken for drugs on initial testing and at preliminary but proven otherwise later and preliminary has a far lower threshhold than a verdict at trial.

Most people think highly of Sam, let's go back to a know affiliiate reporter in the area, a well known one now and way more familiar with the area and who was in the courtroom that day and some of his tweeted thoughts and how things came across to him at the preliminary. And some wonder why things are questioned. It is not even my opinion but it exists and it was tweeted from more than a few and commented on from people present in the courtroom, I think I will give their impressions and what they heard some credence versus people who were not present, myself humbly included.

BBM:

According to the courtroom updates on Twitter, Sheila Frazee invoked the Fifth Amendment, refusing to answer questions.


Sam Kraemer@SamKraemerTV

· Feb 19, 2019

Replying to @SamKraemerTV
Defense doesn’t have an opinion either way. Sheila’s attorney says he’s never seen this come up in a preliminary hearing. May says she has relevant evidence to this case (motive, certain dates when Krystal Kenney was here). @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney


Sam Kraemer@SamKraemerTV


May says she knows about a defendant showing up to her house on Thanksgiving. I’m assuming that’s Kenney, since Patrick lives with her. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney


69

11:08 AM - Feb 19, 2019
This still exists today, it was not edited, called out as wrong nor taken down. See just for one link as an example: Patrick Frazee prosecutors put his mother on the stand at hearing in Kelsey Berreth murder case: Was Idaho nurse Krystal Lee Kenney in Colorado on Thanksgiving Day?

I also remind myself the entire plea deal is not public. What exactly was the hope and intent that day with ma called to the stand...

I still have hope KK is going as far down and for as many years or close to it as he is. I can dream.

<ModSnip> I do not bother to say much any longer here and never once have I thought PF is not guilty as sin as well. Perhaps even a few others, my mind is wide open to that.

To each their own but there is much here yet that should be worthy of discussion.

Just thoughts and jmo observations.

Sam Kraemer is not infallible, and his Tweet was merely an incorrect interpretation as to who showed up at the Frazee house on Thanksgiving.

At no point did anyone state that KK was in Colorado on Thanksgiving, and there is only one “defendant” here, for the purposes of this preliminary hearing.

Besides that, May isn’t going to undermine his case, by refuting what is included in the arrest affidavit (that KK arrived in Colorado on the 24th).

Sam Kraemer’s mistake, is not evidence that KK was present at Thanksgiving.
 
Sam Kraemer is not infallible, and his Tweet was merely an incorrect interpretation as to who showed up at the Frazee house on Thanksgiving.

At no point did anyone state that KK was in Colorado on Thanksgiving, and there is only one “defendant” here, for the purposes of this preliminary hearing.

Besides that, May isn’t going to undermine his case, by refuting what is included in the arrest affidavit (that KK arrived in Colorado on the 24th).

Sam Kraemer’s mistake, is not evidence that KK was present at Thanksgiving.
I believe DA May's "only one defendant" at Thanksgiving dinner was in reference to SF's son, PF.
 
The likely reason the Branch Manager became involved in the interaction w/ PF when he came into the bank on 12/05 is that he was making a highly unusual request, namely, that the ATM video from the prior month be reviewed to confirm the "timeline" of his transactions on 11/22.

And, oh, yeah, PF also wanted to find out whether the baby seat and baby were both visible in the ATM video from that day. THAT'S not hugely weird. At all.

The fact that incredibly inappropriate comments such as "forget we were ever here" were uttered by PF's companion doubtless only made it an even more bizarre (and therefore memorable) encounter from the Branch Manager's perspective.

Apparently, PF's inquiry at the bank that day was unusual enough that the Branch Manager became involved, and subsequently thought it needed to be reported to the authorities.

Kudos to the Branch Manager for reporting it to LE.

JMO.
 
The likely reason the Branch Manager became involved in the interaction w/ PF when he came into the bank on 12/06 is that he was making a highly unusual request, namely, that the ATM video from the prior month be reviewed to confirm the "timeline" of his transactions on 11/22.

And, oh, yeah, PF also wanted to find out whether the baby seat and baby were both visible in the ATM video from that day. THAT'S not hugely weird. At all.

The fact that incredibly inappropriate comments such as "forget we were ever here" were uttered by PF's companion doubtless only made it an even more bizarre (and therefore memorable) encounter from the Branch Manager's perspective.

Apparently, PF's inquiry at the bank that day was unusual enough that the Branch Manager became involved, and subsequently thought it needed to be reported to the authorities.

Kudos to the Branch Manager for reporting it to LE.

JMO.
Yeah, that whole thing is stunningly bizarre, and incredibly incriminating.

“What do they have on me?”

A lot PF. A lot.
 
Sam Kraemer is not infallible, and his Tweet was merely an incorrect interpretation as to who showed up at the Frazee house on Thanksgiving.

At no point did anyone state that KK was in Colorado on Thanksgiving, and there is only one “defendant” here, for the purposes of this preliminary hearing.

Besides that, May isn’t going to undermine his case, by refuting what is included in the arrest affidavit (that KK arrived in Colorado on the 24th).

Sam Kraemer’s mistake, is not evidence that KK was present at Thanksgiving.

Everything you said, and this, too:

I ain't ever treating a reporter's tweets like they're case evidence.

Sam Kraemer wasn't tweeting from the witness stand at that hearing.
He wasn't giving sworn testimony.
He was just tweeting bits and pieces of what he heard being stated in court that day.
From his seat in the gallery.
As an observer.

Sam's a good reporter.
He's not LE.
He's not a forensic expert.
He's not a witness.

The judge isn't going to be advising the jury to form their opinions based on the evidence they read in Sam's tweets.

That would be ludicrous.

JM02.
 
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You know I don’t recall but did the prosecution ever state and prove what food was served at the Franch for thanksgiving?

Boy the defense could really have a field day with that.

Why try to hide that evidence?

That could be huge in this case
 
I’ve been sort of thinking she was initially beaten in the living area and then taken into the bathroom at the end to perhaps make things easier to gather, contain, wrap up (like in the bath tub). Maybe that is why there was blood all over the bathroom. And I know it was said somewhere she was having her period. Even during a really bad period, blood does not end up all over your bathroom. Believe me, this is 35 years of ladyness talking.

Or he hit her in the living room and she staggered, either mortally injured or almost there, into the bathroom, and he hit her again.
 
Sam Kraemer is not infallible, and his Tweet was merely an incorrect interpretation as to who showed up at the Frazee house on Thanksgiving.

At no point did anyone state that KK was in Colorado on Thanksgiving, and there is only one “defendant” here, for the purposes of this preliminary hearing.

Besides that, May isn’t going to undermine his case, by refuting what is included in the arrest affidavit (that KK arrived in Colorado on the 24th).

Sam Kraemer’s mistake, is not evidence that KK was present at Thanksgiving.

Yes. That assumption tweeted by Kraemer has led to some serious speculation on the threads but I think it's quite clear that assumption- not fact- was incorrect. Why? Because they didn't charge her with murder or accessory and LE knows fully well where she was on Thanksgiving by her phone pings, cell communications and witness statements, and they knew that fully well when she was interrogated and arrested.

Moreover, the evidence shows she asked to borrow a vehicle the day after and arrived in Colorado on the 24th, in that borrowed vehicle.

She was not seen at Kelsey's home the day of the murder, the last day Kelsey was seen alive, but PF was and KB's phone followed PF's that whole day, after he was last seen entering her home.

Further, cell records show he called KL's phone the day of the murder, soon after it was thought it have occurred, and that they had numerous calls on the 24th as she arrived in CO.

Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far

Some have tried to explain that away by saying KL was somehow in CO the day of the murder, drugged Kelsey to keep her alive for two days and then inexplicably drove back up to ID and down before killing her, or that she gave PF drugs to drug and hold Kelsey until KL could drive down and kill her.

Neither of those possibilities are remotely logical to me.
 
Everything you said, and this, too:

I ain't ever treating a reporter's tweets like they're case evidence.

Sam Kraemer wasn't tweeting from the witness stand at that hearing.
He wasn't giving sworn testimony.
He was just tweeting bits and pieces of what he heard being stated in court that day.
From his seat in the gallery.
As an observer.

Sam's a good reporter.
He's not LE.
He's not a forensic expert.
He's not a witness.

The judge isn't going to be advising the jury to form their opinions based on the evidence they read in Sam's tweets.

That would be ludicrous.

JMO.

Yes and well, and it was a simple assumption. He stated it was an assumption. I don't get why some are treating assumption as fact!!
 
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