CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #53 *ARREST*

[gitana1]

You know I don’t recall but did the prosecution ever state and prove what food was served at the Franch for thanksgiving?

Boy the defense could really have a field day with that.

Why try to hide that evidence?

That could be huge in this case

Lol.

 

[JaneEyre]

Blood on the ceiling is a bit hard to explain in the bathroom.

Missed blood everywhere in visits prior is also a bit hard to explain whether the alleged murder that day was in the living room or the bathroom. Did Baby K's toys or anything test for bleach, dish soap or other residue from cleaning? The wiped down frig and more? I guess those answers will come.

As for search warrants and Swiffer (trademark) mop, more is always taken than matters on search warrants and much often ends up not mattering at trial. I doubt all numerous pairs of jeans and gray shirts and boots for instance are going to be relevant, or all teeth unless there are serial murders and teeth that are kept as trophies for him or his family.

As far as a Swiffer presumptive for blood, it could be KK gifting cleaning tools to SF after clean-up or they were even taken or loaned from SF and then returned, it could be SF cleaning up after KK or PF walking in with bloody shoes, it could be mopping up some hamburger blood after it leaked walking a package from the sink or butchering and more. We heard of presumptive tests but I do not recall confirmatory tests, a big difference, like iced tea powder being mistaken for drugs on initial testing and at preliminary but proven otherwise later and preliminary has a far lower threshhold than a verdict at trial.

Most people think highly of Sam, let's go back to a know affiliiate reporter in the area, a well known one now and way more familiar with the area and who was in the courtroom that day and some of his tweeted thoughts and how things came across to him at the preliminary. And some wonder why things are questioned. It is not even my opinion but it exists and it was tweeted from more than a few and commented on from people present in the courtroom, I think I will give their impressions and what they heard some credence versus people who were not present, myself humbly included.

BBM:

According to the courtroom updates on Twitter, Sheila Frazee invoked the Fifth Amendment, refusing to answer questions.


Sam Kraemer@SamKraemerTV
· Feb 19, 2019

Replying to @SamKraemerTV
Defense doesn’t have an opinion either way. Sheila’s attorney says he’s never seen this come up in a preliminary hearing. May says she has relevant evidence to this case (motive, certain dates when Krystal Kenney was here). @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney


Sam Kraemer@SamKraemerTV

May says she knows about a defendant showing up to her house on Thanksgiving. I’m assuming that’s Kenney, since Patrick lives with her. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney


69
11:08 AM - Feb 19, 2019
This still exists today, it was not edited, called out as wrong nor taken down. See just for one link as an example: Patrick Frazee prosecutors put his mother on the stand at hearing in Kelsey Berreth murder case: Was Idaho nurse Krystal Lee Kenney in Colorado on Thanksgiving Day?

I also remind myself the entire plea deal is not public. What exactly was the hope and intent that day with ma called to the stand...

I still have hope KK is going as far down and for as many years or close to it as he is. I can dream.

<ModSnip> I do not bother to say much any longer here and never once have I thought PF is not guilty as sin as well. Perhaps even a few others, my mind is wide open to that.

To each their own but there is much here yet that should be worthy of discussion.

Just thoughts and jmo observations.

Blood on the ceiling is easy to explain. Have you ever tried to wash something hard-surfaced in the sink and turned the water on at too high a pressure? It sends whatever you’re trying to wash off straight up (or straight into your face, depending on the angle). It creates splatter. We are more apt to turn a faucet too high when we are unfamiliar with it - i.e., in someone else’s home.

 

[GordianKnot]

Blood on the ceiling is easy to explain. Have you ever tried to wash something hard-surfaced in the sink and turned the water on at too high a pressure? It sends whatever you’re trying to wash off straight up (or straight into your face, depending on the angle). It creates splatter. We are more apt to turn a faucet too high when we are unfamiliar with it - i.e., in someone else’s home.

Yes, good point.

Also, when trying to clean a shower stall, especially when you're trying to angle the shower nozzle up higher to get all around the shower walls to rinse it off, a lot of times the water spray goes everywhere.

It sounds like there was a lot of blood that needed to be cleaned up in that bathroom.
I'm not at all surprised to hear that there was blood found on the ceiling for that reason.

After all, PF probably couldn't reach the ceiling with his Wet Wipes.

JMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

It was still 'preferential' treatment. The bank manager stepped up to see if she could help them.

But that doesn't negate the fact that they were acting very shady and a call to LE was reasonable on her part. JMO

But would not one expect that a manager would meet with them if they were wanting to review camera footage? Could a normal bank teller help them with that?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

It notes in the SW that the Branch Manager reported PF was accompanied to the bank on 12/06 by an "unknown male."

Whoever this mystery dude with the wildly inappropriate "sense of humor" is that came in to the bank with PF probably isn't a valued customer, since the Branch Manager didn't know him from Adam. LE hasn't named the person publicly.

Yet.

The trial's still a long way off. I expect we'll be hearing names then, but not before.

JMO.

It was my impression that indeed law enforcement did name who was in the bank. They recognized him at the presser as the description of the man in the bank, and walked up to him and asked him his name. It is in the search warrant. M o o o o. And you can bet your bottom dollar that the bank had video of who was in that bank.

 

[Irmese]

Blood on the ceiling is a bit hard to explain in the bathroom.

Missed blood everywhere in visits prior is also a bit hard to explain whether the alleged murder that day was in the living room or the bathroom.

The blood evidence not being found by LE after a couple of searches is the weakest part of the case against PF IMO. It could be interpreted as a set-up. The phone data is pretty solid and everything else falls into place. ETA MOO.

 

[MemPat]

Yes. That assumption tweeted by Kraemer has led to some serious speculation on the threads but I think it's quite clear that assumption- not fact- was incorrect. Why? Because they didn't charge her with murder or accessory and LE knows fully well where she was on Thanksgiving by her phone pings, cell communications and witness statements, and they knew that fully well when she was interrogated and arrested.

Moreover, the evidence shows she asked to borrow a vehicle the day after and arrived in Colorado on the 24th, in that borrowed vehicle.

She was not seen at Kelsey's home the day of the murder, the last day Kelsey was seen alive, but PF was and KB's phone followed PF's that whole day, after he was last seen entering her home.

Further, cell records show he called KL's phone the day of the murder, soon after it was thought it have occurred, and that they had numerous calls on the 24th as she arrived in CO.

Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far

Some have tried to explain that away by saying KL was somehow in CO the day of the murder, drugged Kelsey to keep her alive for two days and then inexplicably drove back up to ID and down before killing her, or that she gave PF drugs to drug and hold Kelsey until KL could drive down and kill her.

Neither of those possibilities are remotely logical to me.

Not just illogical but downright laughable.

 

[MemPat]

Blood on the ceiling is easy to explain. Have you ever tried to wash something hard-surfaced in the sink and turned the water on at too high a pressure? It sends whatever you’re trying to wash off straight up (or straight into your face, depending on the angle). It creates splatter. We are more apt to turn a faucet too high when we are unfamiliar with it - i.e., in someone else’s home.

As difficult as it is to say, we can't assume PF didn't cut her body in half to fit it into the tote.

That would certainly cause some spatter or mist on the ceiling.

 

[MassGuy]

As difficult as it is to say, we can't assume PF didn't cut her body in half to fit it into the tote.

That would certainly cause some splatter or mist on the ceiling.

I believe that PF is fully capable of dismemberment, as he did burn Kelsey’s body after all.

That being said, I don’t believe it was necessary for him to do so.

We have no evidence that he re-entered the house after killing Kelsey, and he probably didn’t have enough time to do that in the time period he was there.

I also think it’s likely he would have told KK, as we know he wasn’t shy about sharing gruesome details.

So I’m comfortable that dismemberment did not occur.

I think that blood came from the cleanup effort.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This may be off topic, but I'm racking my brains to remember what case we learned that this was something that escapes documentation. (Of when someone writes a draft in their email, but never sends it, but somebody else logs on to read it and then delete it.)

Vague memory of B*den-C*ay, he and his mistress. ???

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I believe you may be remembering General Petraeus and his lover. She was writing his autobiography or something and they had an affair and wrote drafts in an email account to communicate. I’m pretty sure it was them. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

Yes, thank you. I had never known it before that. It reminds me, I don't think we ever have actually seen it in a criminal case that I have followed here, just that one. I wonder if that still exists because I would think they would be able to see the ISP of people that log on, that is if they have a search warrant to do such and they thought it would make a difference at trial ?

Perhaps the difficulty is, is that the carrier does not capture and keep what was posted as the draft.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Vague memory of B*den-C*ay, he and his mistress. ???

Perhaps, I never followed that case and I don't know which case you're talking about. But the one above is the one I was thinking of.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Yes, thank you. I had never known it before that. It reminds me, I don't think we ever have actually seen it in a criminal case that I have followed here, just that one. I wonder if that still exists because I would think they would be able to see the ISP of people that log on, that is if they have a search warrant to do such and they thought it would make a difference at trial ?

Perhaps the difficulty is, is that the carrier does not capture and keep what was posted as the draft.

I remember thinking it was pretty clever of them at the time, as I had never heard of it before either. Wasn’t too clever. They got caught. LOL.
Surely the ISP could still be tracked.

 

[Hatch]

As far as the blood on the bleach bottle and Swiffer, I don't think it is that important. If it was the only possible evidence then it would matter. IMO, some tests for the presence of blood also react with bleach so further testing would be required to prove anything found was actually human blood. It would be nice for the prosecution if KB's blood is on the bleach bottle and/or the Swiffer. We don't know if there is some receipt floating around that shows PF or KK bought those products. We don't know if this might be the consumptive evidence that was initially thought to be very important. It is just one piece of the puzzle. MOO.

True statement, I am willing to bet they had verbal from KK exactly what was used for clean up, reason they confiscated the swiffer, bleach and green cleaner plus many more things. I also think SF would of had more cleaning products than just those 3, they were targeted with testing in mind. I would like to know of PF placed those things in the condo for KK to use on, or after the 22nd but before the 25 th.

 

[Hatch]

Yeah. That court testimony that I posted, had to do with the discovery of blood in the bathroom.

At the time, they believed that Kelsey may have been killed there.

This was before KK appeared, and gave her account to law enforcement.

I believe the blood is attributable to the cleanup efforts by KK, and likely PF as well.

I think he most likely showered after the murder, he is a tall man and just shampooing his hair could of splashed blood spatter on the bathroom ceiling especially if his hands were bloody as well as other parts of his body.

 

[MassGuy]

I think he most likely showered after the murder, he is a tall man and just shampooing his hair could of splashed blood spatter on the bathroom ceiling especially if his hands were bloody as well as other parts of his body.

Ha! I don’t know how you shower Hatch, but I’m not sure that’s it.

I definitely think there’s a good chance that he did shower, but I don’t see that causing the blood on the ceiling.

I think it was some part of the cleanup process, likely a mop.

 

[GordianKnot]

I think he most likely showered after the murder, he is a tall man and just shampooing his hair could of splashed blood spatter on the bathroom ceiling especially if his hands were bloody as well as other parts of his body.

Yep, agree with this completely, Hatch.

If PF showered at KB's after he murdered her, he could easily have splashed or sprayed blood up on the ceiling.

Especially if the shower had one of those handheld nozzle thingies.
Even if it was a fixed shower head, if PF adjusted the nozzle head/swiveled it around to fit his height, etc., it might have sprayed some blood particles up onto the ceiling.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Yep, agree with this completely, Hatch.

If PF showered at KB's after he murdered her, he could easily have splashed or sprayed blood up on the ceiling.

JMO.

Well apparently you two shower like a bunch of maniacs.

Or maybe it’s just me whose doing it wrong.

 

[GordianKnot]

*DBM.

 

[Hatch]

Ha! I don’t know how you shower Hatch, but I’m not sure that’s it.

I definitely think there’s a good chance that he did shower, but I don’t see that causing the blood on the ceiling.

I think it was some part of the cleanup process, likely a mop.

Well the first thing in my experience is washing of the hair and getting your face wet to acclimate water temp, if PF did that and raised his hands to rub water off his face or put shampoo in his hands and went straight for the hair, I think he could of easily slung blood evidence on the ceiling.
I have watched a male or two take a shower first thing they do is put their face and head under the shower head and shake like a dog.( jokingly said but I have seen it) Hands upward with water and blood and soap could easily splash the ceiling, remember PF is correct me if I am wrong 6'2" and a small bath/ shower combo I am thinking he would not be far from the ceiling, no more than 6 inches. I just cannot imagine him not taking a shower and changing clothes after a murder with a bat ! I think 99% would shower immediately if available to do so.