CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #66

[SuperTmo]

Actually no, as the timing doesn’t work. She intended to plead the Fifth back in February, which was well before PF made contact with this guy.

What it does make clear, is that SF was deeply involved in all of this, atleast after the fact.

I really want to see this horrible woman go down for her part. There is no way she didn’t know! And the fact that PF put her phone numbers down for the gang guy to call after killing all the witnesses just demonstrates that even more.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Not only authenticated handwriting but also fingerprints. The notes were written on paper so PF's finger prints would have to be on them.

I see the Judge has now added 2nd degree murder and manslaughter which is good. I've always thought 1st degree was a stretch but we'll see what the jury decides. Whatever is decided, I think there will be an appeal.

JMO

I don't get how 1st degree is a stretch.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

Not only authenticated handwriting but also fingerprints. The notes were written on paper so PF's finger prints would have to be on them.

I see the Judge has now added 2nd degree murder and manslaughter which is good. I've always thought 1st degree was a stretch but we'll see what the jury decides. Whatever is decided, I think there will be an appeal.

JMO

I guess forget my post about PF plotting to murder his mom and losing his last supporter...

 

[MemPat]

Sadly for the family of Kelsey, I believe the reason that PF’s lawyers did not put on a case isn’t because he is indefensible, it is to set him up with a reason to appeal. To not call even one witness sure makes his attorneys look incompetent. I think that they will use the last minute witness and these letters as an issue for appeal too. They can argue that given the short notice they could not have them analyzed to verify that he wrote them and so they could not defend PF against them.

They had all next week if they needed it.

I think lawyers who handle appeals are laughing at the futility of the incompetent counsel angle.

My question is whether Patrick will be assigned a Public Defender for an automatic appeal?

I'm sure his family isn't going to fork over any funds for attorneys though I guess Ma F could leverage the franch.

 

[MassGuy]

Not only authenticated handwriting but also fingerprints. The notes were written on paper so PF's finger prints would have to be on them.

I see the Judge has now added 2nd degree murder and manslaughter which is good. I've always thought 1st degree was a stretch but we'll see what the jury decides. Whatever is decided, I think there will be an appeal.

JMO

The defense made no argument that PF didn’t write them. It’s clear he did.

This crime was the very definition of first degree murder, anything else would be a tremendous stretch.

Something called “premeditation,” is one of the elements of first degree murder. That means he planned it ahead of time.

There is no doubt that he did, as JM testified to. We didn’t even need that though.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not only authenticated handwriting but also fingerprints. The notes were written on paper so PF's finger prints would have to be on them.

I see the Judge has now added 2nd degree murder and manslaughter which is good. I've always thought 1st degree was a stretch but we'll see what the jury decides. Whatever is decided, I think there will be an appeal.

JMO

BBM
What makes you think 1st degree is a stretch?

 

[iamthewalrus]

Sadly for the family of Kelsey, I believe the reason that PF’s lawyers did not put on a case isn’t because he is indefensible, it is to set him up with a reason to appeal. To not call even one witness sure makes his attorneys look incompetent. I think that they will use the last minute witness and these letters as an issue for appeal too. They can argue that given the short notice they could not have them analyzed to verify that he wrote them and so they could not defend PF against them.

I have been worried about the same thing.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Sadly for the family of Kelsey, I believe the reason that PF’s lawyers did not put on a case isn’t because he is indefensible, it is to set him up with a reason to appeal. To not call even one witness sure makes his attorneys look incompetent. I think that they will use the last minute witness and these letters as an issue for appeal too. They can argue that given the short notice they could not have them analyzed to verify that he wrote them and so they could not defend PF against them.

It's not that uncommon for the defense team to rest without calling witnesses. It just happened in the Jimmy Rodgers (Teresa Sievers) trial.

I very much doubt this is a strategy for appeal. Appeals are long shots that rarely work. Also, in an appeal the defense has to show that the issue, properly treated, may have changed the verdict. No way that's happening here.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The defense made no argument that PF didn’t write them. It’s clear he did.

This crime was the very definition of first degree murder, anything else would be a tremendous stretch.

Something called “premeditation,” is one of the elements of first degree murder. That means he planned it ahead of time.

There is no doubt that he did, as JM testified to. We didn’t even need that though.

Jinx,
Exactly, it would be a stretch to consider anything other than 1st degree.
MOO

 

[SuperTmo]

I don't get how 1st degree is a stretch.

Agree. If that’s a stretch, I hope the jurors are built like Gumby and can reach the conclusion that we know they should. I mean, he talked to KK about it for months! Tried to get her to do the dirty deed for him. Told his friend/relative whoever that one guy was “no body no crime.” Months!

I think PF believed he would get Kelsey’s life insurance since he was the beneficiary at one point and probably didn’t know that plan wasn’t in effect.

 

[Lhughessk]

Not only authenticated handwriting but also fingerprints. The notes were written on paper so PF's finger prints would have to be on them.

I see the Judge has now added 2nd degree murder and manslaughter which is good. I've always thought 1st degree was a stretch but we'll see what the jury decides. Whatever is decided, I think there will be an appeal.

JMO

Because nobody can smudge paper to eradicate fingerprints from it.

What element(s) of first degree murder in Colorado do you think are a “stretch”, and why?

 

[dlharris2712]

Mass Guy, I just want to to say that you da man. You've been so great with attention to detail and are always quick to help we who fall behind to get caught up. BBM
And for the record...during the Mollie Tibbetts case; Mass Guy drove to Iowa and gave us a play by play of the streets, locations, etc. He is truly a treasure to WS!!! Truth and some moo

 

[Megnut]

JMO, but it looks more like PF was naming SF as his contact on the outside. Probably figuring mommy dearest would post bond for everybody in Cell Block A. PF is used to women doing what he tells them to do.

I'm especially impressed how he was clever with the code words, outsmarting his own self by PUTTING THE CODE IN WRITING.

Kelsey didn't know it at the time, but in losing her life, she saved her baby. PF will be behind bars for life. He won't get a chance to hurt her further.

Reeling with the Berreth family -- who never could have imagined that this kind of evil exists.

I'd like to see his paternity surgically removed.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Mass Guy, I just want to to say that you da man. You've been so great with attention to detail and are always quick to help we who fall behind to get caught up. BBM
And for the record...during the Mollie Tibbetts case; Mass Guy drove to Iowa and gave us a play by play of the streets, locations, etc. He is truly a treasure to WS!!! Truth and some moo

Haaa! MG is awesome, but that was SharonNeedles that did the video's for Mollie's thread.

 

[SuperTmo]

I am so worried about this too. I wish an attorney would come on here and say it won't go that way but I'm very concerned.

Ultimately I don’t think an appeal and re-trial would be successful, but I think it would be horrible to put her family through any of that.

 

[scdiv]

I am so worried about this too. I wish an attorney would come on here and say it won't go that way but I'm very concerned.

@gitana1 posted this in thread #65...

Defense really never sets up ineffective assistance of counsel.

They’re not overwhelmed. Defense counsel is used to losing.

I think they just don’t have much. We mostly all saw that from the beginning. They’re going to try to say the evidence isn’t there and allows for another theory. But there no evidence of that.

 

[girlhasnoname]

BBM

Nature vs nurture? 15 mos ago I thought nurture can overcome all. But despite the obvious influence Mommy-Scarest had on CW, I came to believe he also had a loose screw or two rattling around at birth. IMO nature + nurture created that monster.

And PF? Yes his family/background was warped and I had assumed played a big role. But 15 swings, those napkin letters and the rest — pure unadulterated evil. IMO this dude was destined to do heinous things no matter who raised him. PF makes me believe some monsters are born that way.

Maybe Mama Watts and Mama Frazee’s brand of “nurture” is actually nature. I know scientists have identified a genetic marker common in violent criminals. I’m sure long time WSers know lots more about it than me. I seem to recall it’s linked to poor impulse control. But there’s also evidence the right environment seemingly can prevent bad behavior despite that gene.

Perhaps there’s another as of yet unidentified genetic marker for what we’d call complete evil. Something well beyond having no empathy or conscience. Rather, a born instinct that actually compels inflicting emotional/physical pain— an instinct so strong nurture can’t stop it. And if there is, then what?

Thoughtful post CO303

 

[SuperTmo]

They had all next week if they needed it.

I think lawyers who handle appeals are laughing at the futility of the incompetent counsel angle.

My question is whether Patrick will be assigned a Public Defender for an automatic appeal?

I'm sure his family isn't going to fork over any funds for attorneys though I guess Ma F could leverage the franch.

I thought appeals were only automatic in death penalty cases. I wonder if that is state specific. Has he been paying these attorneys or were they funded by the fine people of Colorado?

 

[dlharris2712]

"the horses have been taken care of the elk hunt was successful". BBM
Also known as "we got 'er done"...
moo

 

[ajaylee]

If PF is sending a message to SF in code, it's clear that he expected her to know what the code meant.

Who sets up an elaborate verbal code with their accused offspring to say something like 'the deed is done'?

Another one of the things we'll never get an answer about: what would SF have said if asked on the stand how she would have interpreted that coded message if it ever had been sent?

I think one potential ground for appeal might be if the defense tries to invalidate some of the evidence. Can they appeal for a retrial if they can successfully get a key piece of evidence tossed?