CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #3

[Foxfire]

Glendale News
Man pleads not guilty to killing grandparents with an ax

http://www.glendalenewspress.com/ne...ndparents-with-an-ax-20150921,0,6925473.story

<snipped - read more>

September 21, 2015 | 4:12 p.m.
A 34-year-old man accused of killing his elderly grandparents with an ax in their Glendale home pleaded not guilty Monday to two counts of capital murder, officials said.

William and Verna Scheiern, 77 and 82, respectively, were found dead in their home on June 28 when police went to check on them after an out-of-state relative reported that she&#8217;d not heard from them and was concerned.

When police entered the home in the 600 block of Alexander Street through the open front door, they found the two bodies, which were significantly decomposed. The victims both died of blood loss from traumatic injuries, authorities said.

Police believe Nathaniel Scheiern, who had lived with his grandparents in Glendale for about a year, killed them three or four days before their bodies were discovered.

He is being held without bail, and is due back in court in November.

 

[Forager]

Interesting to note that this is happening in my region as well. I live in Canada.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/4th-bb-gun-shooting-alleged-in-waterloo-1.2562204

Welcome to the thread, and thank you for sending that! I've done a lot of Googling in search of reports of highway shootings of apparent strangers. I've found dozens, but almost never ones outside of the US. Differences in gun control measures must be part of the explanation, and I've only searched in English, which probably has something to do with it.

 

[Forager]

I've been thinking about the highway shootings, and I'm wondering about some sort of mounted robotic camera/shooting mechanism remotely controlled in a "point and shoot" kind of way... I mean, think about the Google Car driving around taking pictures.... the mechanism doesn't need to be on top of the vehicle to work... it wouldn't have the same turning radius but it could be mounted on something inside the car, truck or van ... I believe it's feasible... with accuracy and precision...

it could even be sitting on a tripod off the side of the road (and we tend to look right through them as though they aren't there)... and for sure, the fire power would diminish with the caliber of the weapon because the kick would knock over the tripod so there's a limit to the damage it could do...but in Phoenix the gun was a handgun that could easily be hidden inside the casing of many pieces of modern day survey-grade equipment...and could account for both stationary and mobile firing...

Such things do exist:
[video=youtube;fSKONrDQjHc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKONrDQjHc[/video]

Your idea of hiding that kind of mechanism in roadside equipment had never occurred to me.

I'm pretty sure the Northern Colorado Task Force is telling us their investigation is not about highway shootings... I mean they couldn't be more succinct... every time they say something, that's what they say... IMO, the timing of their press release last week, in the midst of the Phoenix shootings... was intended to reinforce the idea that they are looking for something else... like a cold-blooded murderer...a sadistic serial killer...a lone-wolf terrorist perhaps...

The Task Force is on the record as saying that they haven't connected the window shatterings with the Romero, Jacoby or Connole shootings, and I'm sure that they don't want to be held responsible for solving the window shatterings, but I bet they are still investigating them in case a common perp or perps is behind both series. They certainly haven't said that that they've determined that the two series are unrelated. They couldn't possibly until they've solved both.

 

[Forager]

Thank you. Reading back, I'm not sure I did the best job explaining myself because it was late, I was so tired and it was brainstorming/thinking out loud so apologies if I sounded confusing, I was pretty much making notes. I did not sleep a wiiiiiiink last night, tossed and turned all night with images of maps and cross streets in my head. Visiting the exact mile marker(s) this past weekend made a huge impact on how I see this. Now where to go from here, and what good all this does...

I think being openly perched on an overpass is too risky to be not only spotted, but also risky to get away. I'm thinking at this moment that he/they are in a vehicle, and maybe shoot out the window down onto the highway /ramps /frontage roads as they are going over the overpass/bridge. I would also think there would be less traffic, if none, on some of these crossroads so they could get in a clear shot with nobody seeing them. They have the aerial advantage and vantage point. It would be fairly easy to hang a barrel out the window, especially if there is a passenger with the gun. Some of the incidents I just listed above, I'm interested to see if all of those cross streets go over the highway like a bridge. Again, say they travel laterally east west they could shoot north south, or ne or nw, se or sw, even comfortably aim/ point out at say position 9:00/10:00/11:00 (driver) or 1:00/2:00/3:00 (passenger) for example..Say the vehicle is traveling east on the bridge, the passenger could point out to the right and aim south, or southeast, accounting for the rear window hits and/or targets hit frontally while merging north...again, not sure I'm explaining myself clearly. Hope I didn't confuse my directions in his post lol. Going on no sleep.

Wow, you've really got the bit between your teeth! I'm not sure how to help. Let me know.

Prairiewind had taken a similar tack a few months ago, IIRC. I think (without really having checked) that her main conclusion was that there always seemed to be plenty of open undeveloped areas from which to shoot at the areas where we thought the cars had been hit.

The only thing I can think to add at the moment is an arguement against the possibility that the shooter might be taking shots "as they are going over the overpass/bridge". From the bridge or overpass maybe, but not while in motion over them. That would make the shots against moving vehicles almost impossible.

 

[Hatfield]

Question for the people that know a lot about guns, can someone explain the difference in the size of the wound/hole in glass based on distance? (Shot at close range vs from a distance)


Theoretically there shouldn't be a difference but there usually is because of force of impact and velocity changes. Like if you were standing 2 inches away from a piece of glass then the whole window would most likely blow out because the muzzle blast and gasses would have a huge impact on the glass.
If you are about 50 feet away then it would probably be similar to if you are 300 feet away since it theoretically would not matter. But bullet tumbling in the air will cause a difference depending on if the bullet hit straight on or if it was sideways when it hit. If only 50 feet away the bullet had less time to tumble and so maybe slightly smaller entry hole.

But remember with glass the exit hole on the other side is usually much larger as it blows out the back side of the glass. The thicker the glass then the more dramatic the backside of the glass will have a larger hole.

This is because all the particles of the glass start to move through the glass and those particles blow out the back and cause more damage on the backside of the glass.

So entry holes are about the size of the projectile but exit hole on backside are much larger.


Also, what would the maximum distance be using a handgun (say 9mm).


The velocity of a handgun is lower than a rifle so the bullet will drop and lose speed quicker than a rifle. A rifle can travel further.

But the main difference is a rifle is much more accurate. Which is why I think a rifle is being used. A scope can be used on a rifle and you can get very accurate. Handguns sometimes have scopes but not usually and also people have a hard time holding a handgun steady and aiming it.

Rifle is much more accurate.


And, how does caliber affect distance/travel (say .22 vs 9mm)...I know the gun itself/barrel length makes a difference...

This is a tricky one because gunpowder and bullet shape and weight makes all the difference in length of distance a bullet can go.

Usually the larger the number, the larger the size of the caliber. But the gun powder is what can make a bullet travel farther as well as size and shape of bullet. Some small sleek bullets go really far like a .223 rifle bullet which is rather small but the shell is long and has lots of gunpowder. The hole it would make is not much larger than a .22 but it travels a long ways.






*it seems "half a mile" has come up...(need to check the distances from every overpass/cross street) to each incident.

A half mile which is around 2000 feet can easily be reached by most bullets especially if aiming a little high for bullet drop. But accuracy to hit a side window in a moving vehicle would not be that far. I would guess the only way to be able to be accurate enough to hit the windows we have seen hit would be around 100 to 400 feet maximum. Maybe slightly further but it gets tougher and tougher. Definitely a scoped rifle and not a handgun IMO. The main reason I think this is because the witnesses cant see the shooter. If someone was using a handgun then I would think the witnesses would have spotted the vehicle or the person because with a handgun they would have to be close to the target. With a scoped rifle, they can be much further away and not be seen.

What about bullets bouncing off, ricocheting? I don't think we have talked about any ricochet factors yet, or have we?


Again for the accuracy we have seen, I doubt richochets account for most of what we have seen. Maybe 1 or 2 but not most.

There are so many variables that its hard to say anything for sure.

?

Foxfire provided a good link. I can just provide some educated guesses above based on my experience with target practicing.

 

[margarita25]

Sounds like these are likely unrelated, but posting for reference:

Social media threat prompts Front Range CC evacuation
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...ty-college-closes-due-security-risk/72415960/

Front Range Community College dealing with third threat in one week
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...college-dealing-with-third-threat-in-one-week

'Copycat' bomb threat prompts Front Range CC campus sweep
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...prompts-front-range-cc-campus-sweep/72573428/

Message on wall prompts community college evacuation (Longmont)
http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/2015/09/23/front-range-community-college-bomb-threat/72681296/

*its interesting because in thread one I was wondering if our shooter could be a student there (or CSU).

 

[margarita25]

Margarita25, this link should answer many of your questions;

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

About Effective Range

Maximum effective range on an area target: This is the maximum range at which an average shooter can hit a vehicle-sized target 50% of the time. In other words, this is the maximum distance at which it would make sense to open fire on a group or vehicle, etc. If this range were greater than the absolute maximum, the absolute maximum would be quoted (a non-lethal hit may be accurate, but it's not effective).

<See Ranges for Specific Non-Sniper Weapons>

Foxfire provided a good link. I can just provide some educated guesses above based on my experience with target practicing.

Thank you Foxfire and Hatfield for your responses and taking the time to reply to my gun questions.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm

The only thing I can think to add at the moment is an arguement against the possibility that the shooter might be taking shots "as they are going over the overpass/bridge". From the bridge or overpass maybe, but not while in motion over them. That would make the shots against moving vehicles almost impossible.

Well crap, lol..I thought there were some videos in thread 1 that demonstrated this was easily possible, there was one with a cop shooting out the window , iirc...?

Maybe the shooter(s) is not aiming at one specific vehicle but just driving by and firing... with so many cars on the road there would be a good chance that he might hit soooomething?

Also, as mentioned, perhaps some sort of apparatus to provide stabilization. Couldn't he also rest the gun on bottom of the window , kwim?

 

[margarita25]

I've been thinking about the highway shootings, and I'm wondering about some sort of mounted robotic camera/shooting mechanism remotely controlled in a "point and shoot" kind of way... I mean, think about the Google Car driving around taking pictures.... the mechanism doesn't need to be on top of the vehicle to work... it wouldn't have the same turning radius but it could be mounted on something inside the car, truck or van ... I believe it's feasible... with accuracy and precision...


it could even be sitting on a tripod off the side of the road (and we tend to look right through them as though they aren't there)... and for sure, the fire power would diminish with the caliber of the weapon because the kick would knock over the tripod so there's a limit to the damage it could do...but in Phoenix the gun was a handgun that could easily be hidden inside the casing of many pieces of modern day survey-grade equipment...and could account for both stationary and mobile firing...


I'm pretty sure the Northern Colorado Task Force is telling us their investigation is not about highway shootings... I mean they couldn't be more succinct... every time they say something, that's what they say... IMO, the timing of their press release last week, in the midst of the Phoenix shootings... was intended to reinforce the idea that they are looking for something else... like a cold-blooded murderer...a sadistic serial killer...a lone-wolf terrorist perhaps...

Searchingirl, good brainstorming on this, as well as the idea of roadside equipment, etc...this reminds me of when I was traveling the back CR roads...there are also sorts of things...

Could nearby "construction" play a role in any of this (not related to road debris)?

 

[searchinGirl]

Construction could play a role in that the type of GPS robotic equipment needed to pull something like this off is most often used in construction...and the more construction around the highway, the less conspicuous the instrument would be ... on the lonely country roads it might be more noticeable but I doubt it would cause suspicion or alarm anyone enough to not approach and pass by...however, it's an expensive proposition to say the least and I cant really see it with the orange truck...

 

[margarita25]

Don't place too much reliance on the location of the markers on the maps. They are almost always somewhat approximate. Most are probably only good to within a mile, even when everyone from the driver to the cop to the reporter to me were good about understanding and expressing things accurately. Locations are almost never quoted to better than the nearest mile marker.

Duly noted.

Thanks again for your invaluable work!!

 

[margarita25]

Qmfr:

Hmmmm (possibly o/t):


Two arrested in Pierce after reported road rage incident
http://www.greeleytribune.com/news/18279326-113/two-arrested-in-pierce-after-reported-road-rage#

"The Weld County Sheriff&#8217;s office received a call at about 2:30 p.m. Saturday about the incident. The person who called about the incident said the offenders were in a blue Dodge truck with a gun near U.S. 85 and Colo. 392.

Officials arrested two males at about 2:50 p.m. Saturday at the vehicle by 3rd Street and Schafer Avenue in Pierce. Richard Meyer and Jesse Maes were transported to the Weld County Jail."

Snip (mentioned another accident the same morning in addition to the one linked below)

"The one-vehicle rollover crash occurred at U.S. 34 and Weld County Road 3 about 7 a.m."
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...h-johnstown-results-driver-fatality/72556548/

I am still very interested in these two incidents, particularly the first one:

"Two men were arrested Saturday afternoon in Pierce after a road range incident that involved a gun."*note

Note 392, just mentioned in this post (as well as 34):
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ado-Drivers-on-Edge-3&p=12077008#post12077008

 

[FindHG]

Wow, you've really got the bit between your teeth! I'm not sure how to help. Let me know.

Prairiewind had taken a similar tack a few months ago, IIRC. I think (without really having checked) that her main conclusion was that there always seemed to be plenty of open undeveloped areas from which to shoot at the areas where we thought the cars had been hit.

The only thing I can think to add at the moment is an arguement against the possibility that the shooter might be taking shots "as they are going over the overpass/bridge". From the bridge or overpass maybe, but not while in motion over them. That would make the shots against moving vehicles almost impossible.

There's more to duck behind to get to a car or away if it's a lone on foot, around underpasses, or with a car and more than one perp. Any shooter has more options around under passes, places with back roads, utility roads, ATV trails, woods, hills, tall buildings, industrial perches, to name just some of what seems to be around the incidents, as well as cross-roads. Being able to duck out effectively seems to be the thing, in both the fatalities in NOCO and the road shatterings. The road shatterings stand out for their lack of fatalities, unless accidents occurred that haven't been linked. The close up attempts stand out for their failure in Cory's case and perhaps the few others ie, those shot at who saw suspects pulling away from them. Mr. Connole and Mr. Jacoby's murders, I think of as the biggest wuss runs, in that they were extremely vulnerable, completely exposed, cold blooded and cruel.

 

[Hatfield]

Some good points raised about the overpasses or underpasses. The one that sticks a craw in my pants LOL is the one on that lonely back road where there was good pictures showing both directions and the witness said there was no other cars around them.

There was nothing but field from what I saw. Its possible the witness just did not remember a parked vehicle somewhere though. If we believe the witness then the shooter had to be in the field hiding which means they got there either in an ATV or on foot walking and decided to duck into the weeds to shoot at a car.

 

[Hatfield]

Thank you. Reading back, I'm not sure I did the best job explaining myself because it was late, I was so tired and it was brainstorming/thinking out loud so apologies if I sounded confusing, I was pretty much making notes. I did not sleep a wiiiiiiink last night, tossed and turned all night with images of maps and cross streets in my head. Visiting the exact mile marker(s) this past weekend made a huge impact on how I see this. Now where to go from here, and what good all this does...

I think being openly perched on an overpass is too risky to be not only spotted, but also risky to get away. I'm thinking at this moment that he/they are in a vehicle, and maybe shoot out the window down onto the highway /ramps /frontage roads as they are going over the overpass/bridge. I would also think there would be less traffic, if none, on some of these crossroads so they could get in a clear shot with nobody seeing them. They have the aerial advantage and vantage point. It would be fairly easy to hang a barrel out the window, especially if there is a passenger with the gun. Some of the incidents I just listed above, I'm interested to see if all of those cross streets go over the highway like a bridge. Again, say they travel laterally east west they could shoot north south, or ne or nw, se or sw, even comfortably aim/ point out at say position 9:00/10:00/11:00 (driver) or 1:00/2:00/3:00 (passenger) for example..Say the vehicle is traveling east on the bridge, the passenger could point out to the right and aim south, or southeast, accounting for the rear window hits and/or targets hit frontally while merging north...again, not sure I'm explaining myself clearly. Hope I didn't confuse my directions in his post lol. Going on no sleep.

I think I understand most of what you were trying to describe. Since a lot of vehicles shatterings were with the side window then it kind of outrules being directly like on a bridge directly over the road underneath because that would only provide a windshield or rear window shot. BUT if they were further down the RAMP they may be able to get a side window shot at the cross traffic coming and going.

Think of when you are going onto an ON-RAMP and you have to look back at the oncoming traffic. From that ON-RAMP you can definitely see the side windows of vehicles. Same with OFF-RAMPs.

So I do think any CLOVER LEAF type area is a possibility.

But what is so perplexing about the shatterings is a lot of the victims seem to not be able to even suspect a vehicle close to them. Which does kind of tell us either a longer type shot is happening OR maybe something even more devious like was just mentioned about some sort of Construction Equipment being used as a disguise.

One incident picture I do remember seeing a tractor in the background but cannot recall which one it was. It may have been the early car jacking person because there were lots of pictures with that scene.

This case has been one of the most confusing and interesting cases I have seen here on WS. The mystery of it all is just incredible.

 

[margarita25]

This case has been one of the most confusing and interesting cases I have seen here on WS. The mystery of it all is just incredible.

Indeed, Hatfield.

These photos make me sad. I hope it can be definitively established who killed these poor gentlemen.

 

[Forager]

Well crap, lol..I thought there were some videos in thread 1 that demonstrated this was easily possible, there was one with a cop shooting out the window , iirc...?

Maybe the shooter(s) is not aiming at one specific vehicle but just driving by and firing... with so many cars on the road there would be a good chance that he might hit soooomething?

Also, as mentioned, perhaps some sort of apparatus to provide stabilization. Couldn't he also rest the gun on bottom of the window , kwim?

I didn't mean to be saying that the shooter couldn't be in motion at all, just not shooting from another road, (like an overpass) while he or she was driving. We've seen lots of examples of people driving along a road and hitting alother car along the same road driven by the victim. It's hard to do reliably, but not terribly hard. Mohammed Whitaker made lots of this pistol shots that way, and even hit some of drivers. My prejudice in favor of the I-25 shots being taken from stationary positions off road is that the on road shooters are sometimes seen. I've never heard of an off road shooter being seen in action.

 

[Hatfield]

If the perp has been very devious and they have come up with a way to rig up some sort of automatic shooting device and then placed it near the roadway that would sure explain things.

I think we have brought up the possibility before of someone may have rigged up a Drone to do that.

If a perp rigged a BB gun to a drone then they could hover the drone very close to the side of the highway and nobody would be the wiser. They could even hover it behind a tree near the highway.

The only thing is they would have to be close enough to control it. They would be able to live view through the camera and see exactly what they are shooting at to trigger the BB gun.

With all the reports lately of Drones being flown around I have to wonder if some criminal has done something like this for some of the NOCO shootings. Maybe the ones that look more like a BB projectile or a Pellet projectile.

Some BB guns are relatively lightweight and a modified Drone probably could handle the weight of it.

 

[FindHG]

I think I understand most of what you were trying to describe. Since a lot of vehicles shatterings were with the side window then it kind of outrules being directly like on a bridge directly over the road underneath because that would only provide a windshield or rear window shot. BUT if they were further down the RAMP they may be able to get a side window shot at the cross traffic coming and going.

Think of when you are going onto an ON-RAMP and you have to look back at the oncoming traffic. From that ON-RAMP you can definitely see the side windows of vehicles. Same with OFF-RAMPs.

So I do think any CLOVER LEAF type area is a possibility.

But what is so perplexing about the shatterings is a lot of the victims seem to not be able to even suspect a vehicle close to them. Which does kind of tell us either a longer type shot is happening OR maybe something even more devious like was just mentioned about some sort of Construction Equipment being used as a disguise.

One incident picture I do remember seeing a tractor in the background but cannot recall which one it was. It may have been the early car jacking person because there were lots of pictures with that scene.

This case has been one of the most confusing and interesting cases I have seen here on WS. The mystery of it all is just incredible.

Great thinking, Hatfield, makes sense. Nice to have you back too.

Where Cory was shot was a clover leaf ramp, IIRC. The shooting with the perp hanging out of the window was by a ramp, I'm not sure if it was a clover leaf, though.

Construction could play a role in that the type of GPS robotic equipment needed to pull something like this off is most often used in construction...and the more construction around the highway, the less conspicuous the instrument would be ... on the lonely country roads it might be more noticeable but I doubt it would cause suspicion or alarm anyone enough to not approach and pass by...however, it's an expensive proposition to say the least and I cant really see it with the orange truck...

I think you're on the mark with this, searchinGirl, combined with Forager's spear theory, there's a chance various method get tried. Where are do they go for the kudos though, for the dumb stuff they do? Do they market the skills, compare notes, when it's not just nutty loners but groups thrill seeking?


AZ and Other:

Valley pawn shop crucial in arrest of I-10 shootings suspect
Ballistics expert speaks about I-10 shooting case
FOX10Phoenix

http://kjzz.org/content/195262/auth...ootings-attorney-talks-how-case-being-handled
Radio discussion of the shootings and more expert opinions below too

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...oenix-freeway-shooter-leslie-allen-merritt-jr

http://steelerslounge.com/2015/09/az-freeway-shootings-latest/12962/
can anyone make sense of the last line in this story?

"Munoz had been sentenced to probation on an endangerment conviction for excessive speeding and fleeing from police.

~
Sheriff&#8217;s Office investigates reports of windows being shot out of vehicles in Fenton area; Byrnes Mill Police investigate similar reports there
By Kim Robertson, The Leader Jefferson County MO
Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:17 pm

http://www.kmbc.com/news/no-arrests-few-leads-in-shooting-that-injured-2-on-i49/35421660
by Eli Rosenberg, Kansas City, MO

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news...hway-shooting-on-i-44-raises-copycat-concerns
Marla Carter, Tulsa

 

[searchinGirl]

If the perp has been very devious and they have come up with a way to rig up some sort of automatic shooting device and then placed it near the roadway that would sure explain things.

I think we have brought up the possibility before of someone may have rigged up a Drone to do that.

If a perp rigged a BB gun to a drone then they could hover the drone very close to the side of the highway and nobody would be the wiser. They could even hover it behind a tree near the highway.

The only thing is they would have to be close enough to control it. They would be able to live view through the camera and see exactly what they are shooting at to trigger the BB gun.

With all the reports lately of Drones being flown around I have to wonder if some criminal has done something like this for some of the NOCO shootings. Maybe the ones that look more like a BB projectile or a Pellet projectile.

Some BB guns are relatively lightweight and a modified Drone probably could handle the weight of it.

how close do you think you would have to be?... and how far do drones fly?... and how are they controlled?