CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #1

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Kevmob77: do you think this question is somehow inappropriate? It was the question I asked a couple days back, which was then taken by another poster and incorporated into one of many questions:
"How old were you when Roger Ellison went missing? I ask that in part because our perceptions of events as they occur can be affected by our age at the time that they happened."
I'm just curious. I see no rudeness here.

Just of my own personal opinion, I think that silver1sb doesn't want to divulge too much more than needed. And if that is the case, I completely understand that. One never knows what you tell won't be misconstrued or falsified, even accidentally. There may be something silver1sb knows and can't nor will tell for fear that if a suspect came along with detail that only they would know, well, that is important. However cold the case may be, it is still an open investigation.
 
First, we need to make sure all accusations have been stated, and unfortunately you have missed a few:
1] that I was a communist agent, employed by Moscow, to use the educational system to destroy my students’ patriotism for the US;
2] that I was an atheist, in league with the Devil, to bring about the destruction of Christianity;
3] that my belief that America’s racial/ethnic minorities and gays should be accorded all the respect and rights as White Americans would “mongrelize” America’s culture and lead to the end of American civilization as we know it.
Interestingly, before I moved [for personal, familial, and professional reasons] I was invited to dinner by a very well respected Christian family. As we finished eating, the husband said he understood what I had had to endure. He did not apologize for those things [and I did not expect him to, nor ask him to], but said that he hoped that I would understand the community and not harbor any animosity. I have tried do this, and when thinking about Cedaredge, remember positive times. I would have to say that he and his family have been one of the few examples I have met of people who truly practice their faith. Please realize, this was the era of Reagan and I made the perfect villain. You have all jumped on the bandwagon. So for the moment, extinguish the torches, put down the pitchforks, and stifle the “storm the castle’ chant.

1] Roger’s height is listed as 6’. There is a skeleton found in Chaffee County of someone who is 5’6”. OK, let’s go over this--> 6’ vs 5’6”. And yet, we have a chorus of sleuthies demanding DNA tests to determine if it is Roger. Is it a common phenomenon for a skeleton to shrink half a foot? One last time people, 6’ vs 5’6”.
2] the poachers’ story. This one is very odd. There are supposedly 2 men carrying high-powered rifles who come upon a man with a shotgun, and another person who is bound. And yet they don’t do anything about it. Why? Because they are worried they will be charged with poaching? Give me a break. And one passes a lie detector test on his death bed [so melodramatic]? And of course we all know that lie detector tests are infallible. It should be very easy to get the names of the men involved if this is a true story. Still it doesn’t make sense. The other interesting thing is that the man is reported as holding a shotgun. There are 3 shell casings found with the skeleton. Are the shell casings for a shotgun, or a rifle? Big difference. By the way, I am a strong advocate for gun control, and have never owned, nor possessed, any type of firearm. This was not a good opinion to have in a community where gun ownership and hunting is both a personal choice and an economic factor.

Fourth, the infamous ‘house of secrets’ [so melodramatic]
1] the shuttered windows. They weren’t when we lived there. We did have a framed piece of stained glass hanging within the small window frame. Since the house has been altered, I’m not sure what it looks like anymore. But on the north side, there were 3 large windows. The front of the house [facing east] had a large picture window. The south side had a large picture window in the dining area and in the living room, and a smaller window by the fireplace. So quite a few large windows [we enjoyed the sunlight].
2] digging up the yard. Talk about a waste of time and money. The only time I ever did any digging was to replace or add rose bushes, and to create foundation holes for my childrens’ swingset in the backyard [which remained when we left]. By the way, Cedaredge is roughly 6000’ or so, and we had snow on the ground well into April. So the ground is not easily dug up. It can be done, but would take an extended amount of time unless one used machinery. As for anomalies under the concrete floor of the garage, I am not even sure where that is since we did not have a garage. We had to park our car on the street in front of the house. That also brings into question the idea that there was a driveway. Next to the rock wall was an overgrown access road to permit the owner of the lot behind our house access to it. The reason it was overgrown is because it was never used by anyone.
3] the teenager in a fetal position in the crawl space. I love this one because it really lacks logic. How in God’s name [yes, I do believe in God] do you look at an imprint in dirt and determine it is of a teenager and not an adult? Again, doesn’t make sense.

Fifth, more odd accusations which just don’t add up.
1] the only way I can describe this one is my having “encounter groups” in my home. This is a total fabrication. If I did permit such a thing, I would like to think I would have added some type of historical theme to it, such as requiring dress-up in Roman-styled togas and speaking Pig Latin.
2] that I was “the go to guy” for marijuana. Again, another story which is totally fabricated. And then to imply that the police covered it up because.... they benefited somehow? Do you really want to go there? I guess you do. Please realize that freedom of speech, or clever disclaimers at the bottom of one’s post, do not protect one from all liability. But then you have those clever user id’s and never have to worry about people knowing who you are. Anonymity is a shield for the irresponsible.

Sixth, refers to questions that should be asked, but haven’t been.
1] what was determined about reports that people saw Roger hitchhiking out of town that morning? Were these reports dismissed? In that regard, has anybody bothered to read the initial news articles concerning Rogers disappearance?
2] the alleged report that Roger was seen talking to 2 unidentified men the morning he disappeared. Was it inside the school building? Was it outside on school grounds? Was it some place else off school grounds? What time did this occur? Either way, the report that the men were unidentified would lead one to realize that these men were unknown to whoever made that report. Had I been one of those individuals, wouldn’t it be obvious that I would have been identified? However, I was in my classroom preparing to teach that day.
3] it is stated that Roger only had $3 in his wallet, and no additional clothes. This does seem odd for someone who is running away. You would think they would want to have as much money as possible, and some extra clothes. So it would initially seem that no such runaway plan was in effect. However a further understanding as to the type of bank account Roger had, and the bank’s policies regarding it may be necessary. Was it a checking or savings account. Since Roger was still a minor at the time, what was necessary in order for him to get the money? Would he have to write a check to somebody, and then ask for the money from them? Would a savings withdrawal require a second signature? Would it require parental notification?
4] the fact that Roger came to school that morning with his backpack full of books. It might be thought that he would need those books in every single class that day. Possible explanation, but not necessarily probable. As for my classes, I lectured everyday, and had them do book work in class sporadically. So why return all the books? Another possibility, and more probable, is that he knew he wouldn’t be needing them anymore, and wanted to return school property.
5] if we are going to focus on rumors, then we need to make sure we point out the initial rumors that went around. It was stated that Roger had either been kidnapped by a hippie religious cult for human sacrifice, or by a motorcycle gang that was reportedly in the area. Interestingly, it was also rumored a couple of years later that Roger had actually been found. This was supposedly achieved through a search of his social security number that found him living in Kansas and working in a gas station.

Seventh, comments by Chief79--> he acknowledges that “Mitch” was questioned, but he wasn’t. Why he wasn’t questioned is irrelevant at this point. But in knowing that he wasn’t, doesn’t mean he has no valuable information, especially in saying that there is a lot of misinformation. Does Chief79 have to explain anything to the sleuthies? No. It may be something that he doesn’t want to make public out of his regard for Roger. But he should go to the responsible law enforcement agency [Delta County Sheriffs] and provide such information. At that point, its relevance can be determined, and if deemed necessary, made public.
[Continued on another post]


I personally find Pash's post very interesting.
 
I personally find Pash's post very interesting.

Interesting? He spent more time on writing that than he ever let an investigator have. Imagine we are all a high school teacher, and one of our students goes missing w/out a trace. Do you talk or flee? JP hit the road. I like the part where he said an investigator called and asked to speak with him. Now, I can understand if one is busy with school and all, but I would personally want to clear my name. Who wants that on their back? Like I said, it's not what he said, it's what he didn't say.
 
The "JPash" interlude is indeed fascinating---well-written, and to the point. I began my teaching career at exactly the time that poster speaks of, and I can well-appreciate the problems faced by teachers who sought to make a difference. But here's my question: is it WS protocol, because a poster, any poster, claims to have special information about the case, to then automatically accept that poster as being what he or she claims to be?

The poet William Butler Yeats, in another context, of course, wrote: "O body swayed to music, O brightening glance, / How can we know the dancer from the dance?" How can we, the WS faithful, know the poster from the post---EXCEPT that we question the validity of each part of that dichotomy?

And a tip o' the Kangol to Kevmob77's deconstruction of the "JPash" material. I can well-see all sides of this whole issue.
 
Interesting? He spent more time on writing that than he ever let an investigator have. Imagine we are all a high school teacher, and one of our students goes missing w/out a trace. Do you talk or flee? JP hit the road. I like the part where he said an investigator called and asked to speak with him. Now, I can understand if one is busy with school and all, but I would personally want to clear my name. Who wants that on their back? Like I said, it's not what he said, it's what he didn't say.

I am not defending the guy, I don't even know him..now..that being said... yes, his posts are the most interesting informative posts I have read on this site so far. I am not niave enough to take all these post as 100% truth BTW.

He posted many questions that I myself wonder why they are NEVER answered.

From what I understand (from his postings) he did speak to the investigator and was told he wasn't allowed to speak of it.. I am assuming it regards what was written in the assignment. They way I read his statements, he was cleared.

How soon did he leave after he was accused of Rogers dissapearance?

Do you believe Roger was murdered by Pash?

Do you beleive Roger left his home, on his own will, and is alive somewhere? How was Rogers home life? Sometimes parents and children have different views on this subject.

Have you spoke to Rogers friends? What was the rumor back then? Is it possible that Roger is alive, or do you think we sould be sleuthing Jon Does?
 
I don't want to post my theory yet as not to offend Roger's sister. As you can see, she is very sensitive to comments regarding Roger.

Silver, would you like to share your theory?

I would love to hear any and all theories about this fascinating case. It has been 28 years now. I can see no reason why those keen WS brains should not get to speculating. Me? I have no real idea, but I speculate that the initial disappearance may have been voluntary. After that---I know not what. Something happened.
 
My theroy also involves Roger's disappearance being voluntary. I also belive that Roger and Pash have/had more than just a "student/teacher" relationship going on, there was a friendship there...trust.... I think Pash knows exactly why Roger chose to leave, and he is still covering to this day... he obviously knows more than he is saying, as he said that himself in his post.....

Friendship with a student does not look "good" in the eyes of the public, but, in most cases, that is exactly what it is.. a friendship...someone a student can trust.

We had a teacher in our highschool like that. We all thought he was cool! He helped many students out. Awsome man he was and still is!
 
I had a different theory than Zaha, but after hearing hers I do think it is likely. However, Zaha, you forgot to mention a key part of your theory. Why don't you post that part that you messaged me? I think it's important in the dissapearing of his own will theory.

My theory was, R and P had a relationship and when R threatened to expose it P killed him. However, I don't know if P was there that day at school. If he was at school, that theory and any other one involving him is probably a no go.
 
I had a different theory than Zaha, but after hearing hers I do think it is likely. However, Zaha, you forgot to mention a key part of your theory. Why don't you post that part that you messaged me? I think it's important in the dissapearing of his own will theory.

My theory was, R and P had a relationship and when R threatened to expose it P killed him. However, I don't know if P was there that day at school. If he was at school, that theory and any other one involving him is probably a no go.

Bolded by me: I didnt post the whole thing because I don't want to be kicked off websleuths. I love this site!
 
Wow this thread has gotten interesting once agian.

I really do believe that was Pash. He just seemed to know too many details for it not to be and you could tell, he was very angry and defensive.

When I read it, I instantly thought that he was an innocent man. However, after wondering about the rumours of parties and drugs at his home, I wonder how these rumours start out of thin air. Also, someone posted about him taking advantage of him or her on the finding Robert Ellison blog. I can't discredit that.

Now, in regards to Silver. I just wish she would post more, Silver if you are out there, I care about Roger even though I don't know him. I find it so interesting to read what you have to say and wish this case could be solved. I'm not sure if you are offended by our interest or what but we would love to know as much as you're comfortable sharing with us to maybe help point you in the "right direction".
 
Bolded by me: I didnt post the whole thing because I don't want to be kicked off websleuths. I love this site!

How is that bad? It's really not, go ahead, share it. If it's wrong Silver can chime in and let you know if she wants to.
 
Hoorah! Thanks to you who have posted. WebSleuths is at its best when people are saying what they think. Thanks again.
 
OK, here is the rest of it. Remember it is just a theroy..feel free to change my mind :)

WHAT IF:

1. Roger was gay.
2. He was A) too scared to tell his family (as this was NOT accepted back then) OR 2) He did tell them and they didn't approve.
3. Being that he hung out at Pash's house according to the "rumor" .... he let Pash in on his "secret". Rogers mother/family is not fond of Pash, maybe that is why?
4. Pash helps him out, helps prepare him to leave.
5. As one "rumor" has already been stated Pash and Roger were a "couple".
6. If they were a "couple", maybe Roger left first and Pash was to follow at a later date.
7. Maybe Pash knew Roger was gay and that is it. Maybe HE told the family, that is why they dislike him to the extent that they do?

Just thinking outloud, but that is the line of thinking I am in.
 
Zaha, you're not alone in your first assumption. I wondered that immediately after coming upon this case. In 1981, that would have been a hugely controversial issue to have to face.
 
Silver, you mentioned in an earlier post that the family had allowed access to the authorities of X-rays of a back injury Roger had sustained while skiing. I've never seen that in any other article about this subject. When did Roger sustain that injury?
 
Hmmm Silver was definately viewing but didn't reply.
 
Zaha, you're not alone in your first assumption. I wondered that immediately after coming upon this case. In 1981, that would have been a hugely controversial issue to have to face.

Speaking from experience, it is very hard even today for the person to have to deal with it.

My brother is gay. He honestly was in deep depression most his life, from a very young age,until he told us.

His worst fear was my Dad .. he thought my Dad would disown him. Much to his surpirse, my Dad said " I still love you, you are my son"...
all I said was " I don't care, your personal relationships are none of my business" and I still fell that way.
 
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