CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[Medstudies]

I think if C.W. wants people to believe his side of the story, he’s going to have to get on the stand to convince the jury “how it happened.” There’s too much physical evidence against him.

Yep exactly! If he is going to claim she killed the children, he will have to testify to that. And then he will have to try to explain all his lies that are recorded for posterity.

Who wouldn’t question the authenticity of his testimony knowing he’s had an eternity to rehearse his speech and act? His story is preposterous.

Of course I’m open minded enough to know anything is possible. And smart enough to know what is probable.

All MOO.

 

[searchinGirl]

Gary Lee Davis - Wikipedia

This is the last guy that was put to Death in Colorado. His crime was horrific and made me lose sleep at night as I was a young mother at the time in 1986. I guess he and his girlfriend decided to abduct a woman, Ginny May, in front of her children; then take them to a remote location, assault her and brutally execute her. The woman’s involvement in this crime is something I don’t think I’ll ever understand.

 

[Rayleengale]

The three of them are guilty IMO.

I always thought Arias and Peterson sketchy right from the start....thought maybe some accidental death and cover up of Caylee by family. But now I simply believe that Casey wanted her freedom and acted alone with premeditation.

 

[margarita25]

That makes me wonder if the gf thought CW and SW were already separated. After all, SW was in another state with the girls for weeks and weeks. He probably had the gf over to the house even.

Hmmmm....

I don’t know why exactly, but I was speculating/thinking he had been seeing the woman for a while but you make me wonder now...

 

[mickey2942]

From the link:

"Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves."

Seriously. Is this considered "plain language"? Maybe if you have an advanced degree.

No wonder CA is free.

 

[Jacquie1]

Is CW allowed visitors in protective custody? Has the AP visited? Maybe LE urged her to...

I wonder if she’s been speaking with him alaAmberFrey?
Would love to hear the tapes (if any) or be a fly on the wall.

 

[Sleutherfly]

I watched it for the first time the other night. Eerily similar and COLD. Except Longo fled. I wonder if he’s ever told “why.” Probably no reason except being psychopath.

Longo admitted that he believes the prosecution expert was correct in the assessment that he is a narcissist.

 

[Layla123]

I rewatched CW’s interview, and then I watched a Mollie Tibbits father and boyfriend interview to compare. The striking difference I noticed was the Tibbits interview was all about Mollie’e disappearance, CW’s interview was all about him and his feelings about his loss. I also heard him say, “I just want to hear them knocking at the door.” They wouldn’t knock at the door! They live there! They’d just come walking in.

 

[gitana1]

I think CW was defective so nothing he does or says is explainable or excusable, imo, so I'm just speaking of the potential psychology of why he put the girls he was so "devoted" to into the oil...

He seemed to have good feelings about the oil business, or "tar heels" ...if that's the case maybe to HIM putting them there was not only a good place to hide them but also it's not so bad of a place for them to be, in his twisted mind. Some are saying he must have hated the girls and that's why he put them there, and SW in a grave, albeit a shallow one. I think the opposite is true. But maybe if he had time he would have buried them all, or if there was room in the tanks SW would've been in there too...who knows, but the thing is, he's guilty as sin of killing all of them in cold blood. If he had snapped he never snapped out of it because this was premidated, imo. He just ran out of time. (And thank you, NU!)

I don't think it shows he hated them. Just that he doesn't have normal human emotion associated with them because his disposal is in no way associated with any burial rites or the psychological need of a parent to commemorate their children or lay them to rest with respect and love.

You pose an intriguing possibility but I'm not really feeling it. Even though that was his job. I mean what if his job was sewer maintenance or garbage man. Or waste treatment. If he worked one of those jobs and disposed of his precious children's bodies in a dump or sewer or sewage waste containment pond or whatever, would it be less psychologically abhorrent because he worked there? IMO, not really.

Rites and attitudes surrounding the death of children are very psychological and meaningful.

I think he simply did what he felt was expedient and could help him hide what he did. He didn't care about them so he didn't have any nostalgia surrounding their disposal.

 

[Amonet]

I wonder if the gf recently found out he was married with children and threatened to cut off the relationship with CW so he got rid of them.

I have to be honest, I find that hard to believe? Some people on here are playing devil's advocate and saying "what if Shanann was abusive to CW"

How many men say "my wife doesn't love me any more" to get a mistress?

What if CW was saying "my wife is abusive and horrible to me, I'd leave her if it wasn't for my sweet children".

What *if*, he's been setting up either a divorce -- or a triple murder -- for a while now and has been telling the mistress bad things about his wife in order to get pity and to break down the "he's a married man" barrier, and then use that to back him up in divorce court or to say that she's so horrible she's walked out on him taking his daughters with her to punish him (the loving daddy) and thus leaving him free to move onto the mistress without looking like the bad guy who was having affairs behind his wife's back just because he wanted to and was tired of playing house with a wife and two energetic young children who would run around and not want to eat all their dinner before they got dessert?

 

[searchinGirl]

That makes me wonder if the gf thought CW and SW were already separated. After all, SW was in another state with the girls for weeks and weeks. He probably had the gf over to the house even.

I think the relationship bloomed in the time Shanann was gone. They certainly got a taste of how things could be without her and the kids around.

 

[gitana1]

I think everyone including MSM like People are overreading the defense's request to examine materials collected at the autopsy.

As a standard clause, they would request anything that could be found to identify the means and manner of death, which would include DNA, marks on the bodies, wound, bullets, etc.

It should not be implied that they have knowledge of such. Just a CYA clause so that if ANYTHING was found, defense would have access to examine it. Everyone is over-interpreting this clause

You are very right. But I thought the same about the request for DNA testing of her hands and their necks.

 

[margarita25]

We see often where a wife’s death has been ruled an accident. Then years later another wife mysteriously dies, often under the same type of circumstances...then they exhume the previous wife’s body and lo and behold, it wasn’t an accident after all...just noting ftr sometimes these nutjobs repeat these crimes (not necessary full FAs). So who knows, if he got away with it, and the mistress joined him, for all we know se could have been next one day.

Example, Drew Peterson, right?

 

[SuperTmo]

Before CW's arrest, I had a strong suspicion from his words in the media interviews and from the circumstances of the 'disappearances' that CW might turn out to be responsible.

I also thought maybe he might turn out to have a history of emotional abuse/gaslighting of Shanann in private while acting the part of the perfect loving husband in front of friends and family.

I'm wondering, though, how common is it for a gaslighter to not just gaslight their partner, but also relate stories to friends or relatives who live distantly in which the gaslighted partner is presented as the gaslighter? Or would a gaslighter be saying to distant friends and relatives that they love the partner and say positive things about the partner?

I don't know for a fact that personality fits CW, so I'm not accusing him of it, more trying to understand possible personality traits in someone who could commit a crime like this.

But thinking of that kind of gaslighting personality, wouldn't they also tend to be people who might do that and then have affairs and want to break up the marriage without looking like the bad guy, so they use techniques like that to paint their partner in a bad light and then go for sole custody of children... regardless of whether they truly *want* the children and more out of spite for their partner?

Obviously CW hasn't gone for separation/divorce/custody fight in the courts or anything like that. But he has minimized his part and blamed Shanann for the girls' murders, in what might be a ploy for playing the victim in a similar way to partners (male or female) who pull that trick that I'm talking about?

With my ex, he is a total gaslighter. It was always my fault and now it’s always his wife’s fault. He is so intense that I started to question everything and think that he must be right, it is my fault. He is an innocent victim and the circumstances aren’t his fault. I see him do it to her (she shows me their texts) and it makes me sick.

He tells his coworkers and family about how awful he is treated and will demonstrate by showing text messages his wife sends but not share the context so it makes him look mistreated. He also tries this in court (he represents himself, always) and it never goes well.

 

[gitana1]

I see your points and I have also been disappointed in juries' decisions in the past, but I think justice will be served here. I believe when this jury is confronted with autopsy pictures of those BEAUTIFUL babies after being discarded in crude oil for days, CW is a dead man walking.
Moo.

Ultimately I feel pretty confident that he will be convicted as well. But I'm not as confident in how quickly that will happen and how many trials it may take.

 

[gitana1]

I was just thinking about how if he is not found guilty I’ll be protesting.

Gitana1, if yoooou’re worried, I’m worried.

Again as stated from the beginning, I am sick that her family will have to endure this BS in court.

I'm not worried he will be found not guilty. I'm worried about a hung jury or two. I think there will be justice. But I also think we are in for a horror show of a case that her family may not be able to endure.

I hope they have a lot of direct support and people helping them survive. Psychologists giving them tools to get through each day. Etc.

 

[Amonet]

Is CW allowed visitors in protective custody? Has the AP visited? Maybe LE urged her to...

In one of the court appearances, maybe the first one, the judge said that CW couldn't have visitors other than his lawyer? A similar restriction to that, anyway. Though I'm not sure how long that restriction was supposed to be in place.

But CW was free from the Monday to the Thursday? Would he have contacted his mistress in those four days? I would be interested to know what, if anything, he said to her in that time.

 

[Stunned]

I wonder if the gf recently found out he was married with children and threatened to cut off the relationship with CW so he got rid of them.

How on earth is she living with herself, if that’s the case. I couldn’.

 

[Mamamiamaria]

When is he likely to face trial ? Will it be a number of years away ?

 

[Layla123]

I don't think it shows he hated them. Just that he doesn't have normal human emotion associated with them because his disposal is in no way associated with any burial rites or the psychological need of a parent to commemorate their children or lay them to rest with respect and love.

You pose an intriguing possibility but I'm not really feeling it. Even though that was his job. I mean what if his job was sewer maintenance or garbage man. Or waste treatment. If he worked one of those jobs and disposed of his precious children's bodies in a dump or sewer or sewage waste containment pond or whatever, would it be less psychologically abhorrent because he worked there? IMO, not really.

Rites and attitudes surrounding the death of children are very psychological and meaningful.

I think he simply did what he felt was expedient and could help him hide what he did. He didn't care about them so he didn't have any nostalgia surrounding their disposal.

I’ve been thinking a lot about how anyone could do something like this to their children, and realized when I ask that question I am putting myself in that situation. I’d never do it. It came to me that once someone crosses that line, whether it’s to have an affair or murder their children, they’re different than me. What was not okay before is now okay to them. There are no more lines marking unacceptable behavior. Whatever it takes to get what they want and need is okay for them.