CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #14

[nmcintosh]

Did the kids have separate rooms?? It looks like it via the monitor, but just curious if it’s been publicized...

 

[Hazelnutty]

What else do we know about what was found on the second floor?

SECOND FLOOR:

1. SW’s phone was found in the loft between two sofa cushions
2. There is/was a baby monitor on SW’s nightstand
3. The bed in the master bedroom was stripped and bedding on the floor
4. The girls’ beds weren’t made, per NUA Video: Friend of woman allegedly killed by husband on why something 'didn't seem right'

1-3 are from the affidavit.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

The girls baby blankets were missing. ( Not sure if you need things not there)

 

[Jacquie1]

I understand what you are saying. It's just so unbelievable. But unless you think it was some intruder, then it has to be one of them. Relating back to Gitana's post, how likely is it that 2 homocidal people are together that one night. It makes just about as much sense as the sleepwalking bait, 2 people sleepwalking the same night, one kills kids, one kills the wife. I still don't believe Couey killed Jessica and buried her alive, her little hands ripped holes in the plastic until she suffocated. Unfortunately there really is true evil on earth, I'm not religious so I don't go for the devil bit, just that there is evil here.

Oh please.... no more “sleepwalking defense”

 

[Seattle1]

He didn't even pretend!
"Colorado is, I mean, um, you can’t just drive around and look, I mean it’s just like, you wouldn’t really know what you were looking for that’s what the cops pretty much told me. That first day I was like I want to get out and drive around and they were like you wouldn’t know what to look for."
He didn't even pretend... and he blamed his inaction on the cops. [QBBM]
Seriously...seeing this in black and white, rather than hearing him say it blew me away. I would've replied "I WOULD know what to look for. My FAMILY. Not a d&^m thing's going to stop me, either." He was probably told that specifically to gauge his reaction.

This! 5 stars

 

[NuttMegg]

Oh please.... no more “sleepwalking defense”

I said bait, which I consider that theory to have been.

 

[cottonweaver]

Did the kids have separate rooms?? It looks like it via the monitor, but just curious if it’s been publicized...

yes
plenty pix on her instagram

 

[Thepoet]

Hi,

Long time lurker, but this horrible case forced me to join and post. Please forgive me for some long posts, I have a lot to say! Also forgive me if I repeat others. Let me begin by complimenting most of you here for your intellect, hard work, and informed opinions! You all are great! I'm very impressed and have learned a lot.

I recently looked at the "dead doll" photo after reading many comments about it and a thought occurred to me; mimicry. Parents here know how children mimic, especially their parents. I wonder if CW did a practice run; wrapping one of the girls in a sheet, in the bedroom, and carrying her down stairs and to the garage to gauge time, difficulty, etc. The girls would have love it and thought it a game. I can even hear daddy say; don't tell mommy, it's a surprise. Then later one or both of the girls mimicked daddy with their doll. SW saw it, photographed it, and commented; "I don't know what to think of this."

Many years ago, through my work, I had become friends with the director of the Area Women’s Center and she talked me into volunteering and I did volunteer work for the center, mostly heavy lifting and hard jobs. It was a sad, but very worthwhile experience and I learned a lot. In regard to CW; strangulation is common in domestic abuse. It’s about POWER AND CONTROL! The breathing, and therefor life, is being controlled! Maybe some experts here could expand on that. I have no doubt he used strangulation, but I don’t believe she did.


I don’t believe these horrible crimes were premeditated. I believe they were VERY premeditated. IMHO CW planned this out for weeks, savoring his plans, putting a lot of thought and preparation into it and believing himself brilliant and infallible. I do believe he’s a narcissist and believes he’s smarter and better than everyone else! But as his plan was put into place, things began to fall apart, beginning with the late flight! I believe he became enraged when SW’s flight was so late, interfering with HIS plans. And I believe this is when he began to make mistakes. I’m certain the prosecutor has a lot of evidence of CW’s planning, and comings and goings. Where he dumped the bodies proves he killed all three. IMHO The spot he chose was not spur of the moment. Given his job position and expertise he had to know; the facility would be locked, there were probably security cameras, whether there were tank covers, if there were covers how they could be opened, if they would need a specific tool (large, strong wrench?) and how long it would take to work to open the tanks. If the tanks were open as some posted, iirc, I believe CW left them open. Anadarko wouldn't leave them open risking contamoination by the elements, debri, and animals or the liability of someone falling in.

Now some questions;

Without visiting the site beforehand, how would he know he could get in and get access to the the tanks? Would he drive 40 miles, with three bodies, without knowing? Had he worked at this location? Different locations are different and he couldn’t just expect one he hadn’t been to, to be the same as one he had worked at!

Without visiting beforehand, how could he be sure there was oil in the tanks? What if they were empty when he got there? Did he check the schedule, and would there be a record of him checking the schedule? Like Scott Peterson’s tide charts?

Why waste extra time and effort to open TWO tanks? Did he plan one tank for SW and the other for the girls, but couldn't get SW to the tank? Did he see something on a previous visit that convinced him ne needed two tanks? Did he open two tanks on a previous visit to insure at least one tank could be opened when he needed it and then, perversely, used both tanks?

Wouldn’t video show previous trips? Did he know about the video and turned it off? If so wouldn’t it record when it was turned off? Big coincidence if it was turned off a few days, or less, before the bodies were dumped!

Without a previous trip, how would he know the roads were accessible? It’s a long trip, especially with bodies, (sorry) to take a chance on not getting through. I suspect Colorado is like Texas and roads, even rural roads get shut down sometimes. What about speed traps? Wouldn't he make sure first?

In an earlier thread iirc someone asked if bruising would reveal gender and a couple of people replied that it didn’t take much pressure to strangle a child so probably not. However, there would still be deep tissue bruising and the coroner may well have been able to determine the size of the hands, if hands were used. If a ligature was used that should also be apparent and would mean CW lied about his wife killing the girls. I don’t believe he ever said she used a ligature. I do believe he either drugged her or took her completely unaware, in a way that couldn’t be defended against and wouldn’t draw blood. For example a ligature with a knee in the back; the attacker is out of reach. CW described seeing one daughter dead and SW strangling the other daughter, and how he became enraged and attacked SW. From his description SW was already in a rage, so, she would have been emotionally charged. Then she would have seen or heard him come into the room, also in a rage (according to him) and her adrenaline would have surged! She would have braced for the attack. And she had long, acrylic nails. So, where are the marks on his face, neck, arms, and/or hands? I believe it‘s impossible for two people, both emotionally charged, to physically engage and leave no marks. She may have been tired and sick, but she would have been full of adrenaline and she would not, IMHO, have just stood there and docilly allowed him to strangle her. Also, he said he attacked her in a rage when she attacked the girls. Rage usually involves pummeling with fists or a blunt object, or using a gun or knife, not strangulation! CW is lying. SW NEVER attacked her children and CW attacked her when she was unaware.

Again, sorry for the length. More later. Best to everyone.

 

[Seattle1]

Good point! You know his 'fight or flight' was kicking in, the way he acted in the videos and what he said about not wanting to be in the house. He wanted to be far, far away from that place.

I can recall several families of 'the missing' that refused to budge from the home their loved one taken or disappeared 30 years later! You are correct -- that coward couldn't get away fast enough.

 

[Carolina Mom]

I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

Evidence of triple murder:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.
QUOTE]
I could understand your list if it did not include the word "evidence". IMO, we should be careful with that word. Per LE, there is physical evidence tying CW to all 3 murders, but we dont know exactly what said evidence is. Nor do we know if the COD is consistent with what CW stated. A murder suspect is not a viable witness- JMO. For all we know, he could have poisened them all.

I am curious about what's on that baby monitor, though! CW must have some reason for mentioning this random detail.

Per SW, both daughters suffered from asthma. She is often seen on SM issuing their breathing treatments. I hate to even think this, but I'm wondering if Bella was "allegedly" blue from lack of oxygen because a certain dad "conveniently" forgot to issue their treatments.

There's still too much we don't know yet. MOO

 

[Thepoet]

I believe CW has given the prosecution a huge gift. The facts of this case are so horrible, if he doesn’t take the stand the jury will convict on all counts, just like Scott Peterson. The Peterson jury said, after the trial, that they wanted to hear from Scott and convicted because he didn’t testify. If CW does testify the prosecution will destroy him. One of the reasons Jeffery MacDonald was convicted was because he was arrogant and combative on the stand. I recommend reviewing the MacDonald case, the similarities are eerie.

 

[Davia18]

Hi,

Long time lurker, but this horrible case forced me to join and post. Please forgive me for some long posts, I have a lot to say! Also forgive me if I repeat others. Let me begin by complimenting most of you here for your intellect, hard work, and informed opinions! You all are great! I'm very impressed and have learned a lot.

I recently looked at the "dead doll" photo after reading many comments about it and a thought occurred to me; mimicry. Parents here know how children mimic, especially their parents. I wonder if CW did a practice run; wrapping one of the girls in a sheet, in the bedroom, and carrying her down stairs and to the garage to gauge time, difficulty, etc. The girls would have love it and thought it a game. I can even hear daddy say; don't tell mommy, it's a surprise. Then later one or both of the girls mimicked daddy with their doll. SW saw it, photographed it, and commented; "I don't know what to think of this."

Many years ago, through my work, I had become friends with the director of the Area Women’s Center and she talked me into volunteering and I did volunteer work for the center, mostly heavy lifting and hard jobs. It was a sad, but very worthwhile experience and I learned a lot. In regard to CW; strangulation is common in domestic abuse. It’s about POWER AND CONTROL! The breathing, and therefor life, is being controlled! Maybe some experts here could expand on that. I have no doubt he used strangulation, but I don’t believe she did.


I don’t believe these horrible crimes were premeditated. I believe they were VERY premeditated. IMHO CW planned this out for weeks, savoring his plans, putting a lot of thought and preparation into it and believing himself brilliant and infallible. I do believe he’s a narcissist and believes he’s smarter and better than everyone else! But as his plan was put into place, things began to fall apart, beginning with the late flight! I believe he became enraged when SW’s flight was so late, interfering with HIS plans. And I believe this is when he began to make mistakes. I’m certain the prosecutor has a lot of evidence of CW’s planning, and comings and goings. Where he dumped the bodies proves he killed all three. IMHO The spot he chose was not spur of the moment. Given his job position and expertise he had to know; the facility would be locked, there were probably security cameras, whether there were tank covers, if there were covers how they could be opened, if they would need a specific tool (large, strong wrench?) and how long it would take to work to open the tanks. If the tanks were open as some posted, iirc, I believe CW left them open. Anadarko wouldn't leave them open risking contamoination by the elements, debri, and animals or the liability of someone falling in.

Now some questions;

Without visiting the site beforehand, how would he know he could get in and get access to the the tanks? Would he drive 40 miles, with three bodies, without knowing? Had he worked at this location? Different locations are different and he couldn’t just expect one he hadn’t been to, to be the same as one he had worked at!

Without visiting beforehand, how could he be sure there was oil in the tanks? What if they were empty when he got there? Did he check the schedule, and would there be a record of him checking the schedule? Like Scott Peterson’s tide charts?

Why waste extra time and effort to open TWO tanks? Did he plan one tank for SW and the other for the girls, but couldn't get SW to the tank? Did he see something on a previous visit that convinced him ne needed two tanks? Did he open two tanks on a previous visit to insure at least one tank could be opened when he needed it and then, perversely, used both tanks?

Wouldn’t video show previous trips? Did he know about the video and turned it off? If so wouldn’t it record when it was turned off? Big coincidence if it was turned off a few days, or less, before the bodies were dumped!

Without a previous trip, how would he know the roads were accessible? It’s a long trip, especially with bodies, (sorry) to take a chance on not getting through. I suspect Colorado is like Texas and roads, even rural roads get shut down sometimes. What about speed traps? Wouldn't he make sure first?

In an earlier thread iirc someone asked if bruising would reveal gender and a couple of people replied that it didn’t take much pressure to strangle a child so probably not. However, there would still be deep tissue bruising and the coroner may well have been able to determine the size of the hands, if hands were used. If a ligature was used that should also be apparent and would mean CW lied about his wife killing the girls. I don’t believe he ever said she used a ligature. I do believe he either drugged her or took her completely unaware, in a way that couldn’t be defended against and wouldn’t draw blood. For example a ligature with a knee in the back; the attacker is out of reach. CW described seeing one daughter dead and SW strangling the other daughter, and how he became enraged and attacked SW. From his description SW was already in a rage, so, she would have been emotionally charged. Then she would have seen or heard him come into the room, also in a rage (according to him) and her adrenaline would have surged! She would have braced for the attack. And she had long, acrylic nails. So, where are the marks on his face, neck, arms, and/or hands? I believe it‘s impossible for two people, both emotionally charged, to physically engage and leave no marks. She may have been tired and sick, but she would have been full of adrenaline and she would not, IMHO, have just stood there and docilly allowed him to strangle her. Also, he said he attacked her in a rage when she attacked the girls. Rage usually involves pummeling with fists or a blunt object, or using a gun or knife, not strangulation! CW is lying. SW NEVER attacked her children and CW attacked her when she was unaware.

Again, sorry for the length. More later. Best to everyone.

First of all WELCOME
I have not finished reading your post but I will, just wanted to put in my 2 cents on strangulation. I was in a abusive marriage and my ex would choke me all the time until I'd be out. He would straddle me and choke me with his bare hands. He was not a big guy only 5'9 about 180 but he was so evil and I could do nothing.

 

[PommyMommy]

I appreciate what isalybra said yesterday about the upstairs bedroom being converted into a closet but where is the playroom on your plan Pommy? I'd wondered could that have been converted from a bedroom? Here are some photos.

Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Thought I was done cleaning.....We call Celeste the #destroyer every time she goes into a room she dumps ALL of the bins and then plays!…”


Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Cheese #love #mymonsters #sisters #foreverfriends #buddys but they #fight then #hug”

I would think it's the downstairs bedroom but could also be upstairs, in which case the downstairs bedroom would be the converted closet, but it's all speculation at this point. I am focused more on the evidence in the home than what the rooms were used for, although that comes in to play too, obviously.

 

[Mercedes]

I've never heard of a keypad with batteries. They're usually hardwired into your electrical system.

Ours uses a wee little battery.

 

[PommyMommy]

The girls baby blankets were missing. ( Not sure if you need things not there)

Yes! Thank you.

 

[RickshawFan]

Maybe this is too far-fetched - but remember when Flight MH370 disappeared? There were a whole bunch of people looking on satellite imagery for the wreckage in the ocean. Imagery that they can still go back to that exact day and look for, and some people still are looking. Could there be satellite footage of what CW did at the site of the oil tanks that morning? I know nothing about stuff like that, so don't laugh at me!

Well, that's a genius idea, but I think the technology used to try and locate MH370 was spy satellites.

I'm not convinced a spy organization would be enthusiastic about helping Websleuths in this endeavor. Even if we're sincere and thankful.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

They don't do the minimum because they are lazy or they are not paid very much. They are overworked with too many cases and clients, and they don't have the resources that the police (and, in this case, the CBI and FBI) have.

This!

 

[Kadoober]

[/QUOTE="gitana1,
Evidence of triple murder:
1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.
/QUOTE]

I could understand your list if it did not include the word "evidence". IMO, we should be careful with that word. Per LE, there is physical evidence tying CW to all 3 murders, but we dont know exactly what said evidence is. Nor do we know if the COD is consistent with what CW stated. A murder suspect is not a viable witness- JMO. For all we know, he could have poisened them all.

I am curious about what's on that baby monitor, though! CW must have some reason for mentioning this random detail.

Per SW, both daughters suffered from asthma. She is often seen on SM issuing their breathing treatments. I hate to even think this, but I'm wondering if Bella was "allegedly" blue from lack of oxygen because a certain dad "conveniently" forgot to issue their treatments.

There's still too much we don't know yet. MOO

But it IS evidence. Circumstantial evidence is evidence.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

We know SP did finally manage to squeeze out a little tear on camera in one interview. But, I think CW was trying to make us believe she had just left with the two girls (his original plan). Then, all hell broke loose when her friend showed up and sounded the alarm before he could stage everything. JMO

I can't even imagine how much CW could have gotten away with if it weren't for SW's bestie!!

 

[gitana1]

Family annihilators characteristics:

1. Overwhelmingly male. 83% in UK study. 95% in US study.
2. Mostly white and middle aged per the US study. Over half were in their 30's at the time of the crime per UK study.
3. Most frequent month of killings is August. And over half on weekends.
4. 81% attempt suicide after the killings.
5. 66% are motivated by family breakup. Second most common motivator is financial problems.
6. They feel they've fallen short of a societal ideal of manhood. They feel inadequate as men.
7. They typically have suffered abuse in childhood.
8. They tend to try to create an idealized version of family life and exert strict control over their households.
9. Those motivated by rage do so when they feel loss of control. Their rage causes the spouse to try to leave which makes them feel humiliation which is the driving factor in the killings. Shame of some sort tends to bethe biggest reason.
10. Those motivated by altruism feel they've let the family down and the family will suffer as a result.
11. Most, prior to murders are seen as loving husbands and good fathers, often holding down high profile jobs and seen publicly as being very, very successful.

Characteristics of family killers revealed: The male dominated crime most common in August

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/inside-mind-family-annihilators-75225?amp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5805eb48e4b08ddf9ece0fad/amp

The Last Psychiatrist: 8 Characteristics of Family Annihilators

 

[Thepoet]

There was a post or posts iirc that said the family of SW and the FBI had asked witnesses not to speak out. The FBI? Why the FBI? No state lines were crossed, no federal offense.

There has been a dearth of information about CW’s past. I wonder if LE has checked to see if there are any missing persons in his past? Would this have been the first? Is the FBI involved because of something similar somewhere else?