CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #15

[OldLadyBlues]

I honestly think he killed his girls maybe while they slept and the trauma of those kills set him off in a frenzy. I also think he cleaned after those kills and lay in wait for SW to come home. I am wondering too, if he didn't tell her he killed the children and showed her before he killed her.
This case is going to get more weird before it's get to a normal murder trial if any of them can ever be normal. It involves secrets, living in lies that are more powerful than anyone can ever imagine. So try not to make sense out of anything this guy did or has done because he is in a world of denial unto himself where nothing is the way it appears....kinda like looking into a fun house mirror. The worse part of his life will come when he actually realizes what he has done and its gravity.

 

[cottonweaver]

I stand corrected, thank you. I read, "The [bed sheet found near the oil tanks] matched the pattern of several pillowcases and a top sheet that was recovered from a kitchen trash can from [Watts'] residence early that day," and my brain automatically went to fitted sheet, because what else would it be? But you're correct, the word fitted does not appear.

And about time You had a mental block on that! we all get them.

Edit: Thought we needed some humour as there hasn't been any for a while.

 

[Talisman]

I asked the question before with no answer from anyone.

I am wondering what his missing scene was going to be. Everything at the house including the car? When would friends be called asking where she is? When would LE be called?

Or would he drive the car, leave it and run back home? Or?

Yes, what was he planning on doing? He couldn't say someone picked them up in a car that had car seats - the neighbor's camera would be proof it didn't happen.

Was he going to drive her car away himself (with camera watching), ok, then what? Take a taxi home? I'm with you. WHAT the heck was his plan?

 

[NanZDrew]

Anyone who does that kind of task on a routine basis will have a battery powered impact driver at their disposal. It would be a one minute job.

Even if you have to use a socket and ratchet it wouldn't take that long. Either way, I don't see how it could have an impact on the overall timeline of what was possible.

What you say is true provided that it has not corroded, or has a stripped thread. It would be faster than digging a grave. He did not have a huge time frame from the time he killed SW to the time he left the house. I do figure he most likely had a flexible schedule so he may have had more time and flexibility than we know. Had he also put SW in a tank, and figured out something to do with her purse, keys and cell phone, he may have gotten away with this.

 

[Rosemadder15]

I am also very interested in the logistics of the burials. The more I think about it, the less it seems something that could be done quickly and/or in a panic like he claims.

jmo

I have no idea. I can only give my experience from past field engineer type jobs, we never 'punched a time clock'. Some days we may start in the field and some days we may hit the office to turn in paperwork or pickup supplies.

I don't post much so I do apologize if these are copied/quoted incorrectly. I have been reading here for a few years on a few cases, but I am more of a reading not talker.

Due to time constraints I have to skip many pages at times to attempt to keep up. Several possibly already covered questions come to mind.
1. In the previously posted videos CW's eyes shift to the right. This has been observed by some as indicating a lie. I noticed this several times when he states he is happy the police are there (during video of dogs alerting) and other moments. Interesting even if not court worthy.
2. The quotes above are a few of many discussing his whereabouts.
My ex is a boilermaker/welder. His main points of employment are always powerplants of some sort (nuclear, oil, etc). He travels parts of the country and works plant shutdowns. EVERY single nuclear plant, oil refinery, etc he has worked in the past 5 years (Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Maryland and more) whether they were refineries or nucs were in the middle of nowhere, miles away usually from hotels, housing, etc.
I know I read it but can't remember CW's job description. However, the site where SW and the girls were found appears to be in the middle of nowhere.
Did he work these sites or just have access?

Confusing to me IS he apparently was only MINUTES away when NU called him that day. WHERE was he working that day SO close to his suburb home? How was he able to be at work and yet get back home so fast? Did he work from an office close by? or did he hide out somewhere that day and scramble back home when she threw him off with her visit to the home?

Offices, headquarters, engineers, etc may have city/suburb locations, but SITES, worksites, etc are most always very remote (20-60 minutes) away from suburb locations.

Sorry so long.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I doubt CW takes a plea deal because he's already floated the "she strangled the kids" defense. The prosecution has to prove he killed all of them and all CW needs is one juror to believe him.

I don't believe the prosecution has to prove he killed all of them, as they are all separate charges.

 

[MerryB]

Yes, what was he planning on doing? He couldn't say someone picked them up in a car that had car seats - the neighbor's camera would be proof it didn't happen.

Was he going to drive her car away himself (with camera watching), ok, then what? Take a taxi home? I'm with you. WHAT the heck was his plan?

What if there was no plan?

 

[NanZDrew]

I think it is more likely that if there was biological evidence on the sheets it was either urine or foaming of the mouth (both can happen during strangulation). When a person is trying to breathe through the mouth but has the airway blocked, pressure can build up behind the salivary glands and, for all intents and purposes, hydraulic pressure builds up and produces foam that can come from the mouth and/or nose. Also, when a person dies, all muscles in their body relax, which can cause elimination of bodily fluids.

I wondered something similiar to this. When there is a murder, does a miscarriage even happen? The bodies muscles would not be contracting. This was still a small fetus so I am thinking it just died from lack of oxygen and stayed inside of SW's body.

 

[bears10]

OH. Didn't know that, doesn't happen over here. Presume for commissary, calls etc. How does that system work then? Open to all awaiting trial?

I am not sure of the specifics bc I’ve never done it but you can put money in an inmates account for them to use at the commissary. I think phone calls are a separate cost to fund. I assume in this sense the rights of people in custody are the same whether convicted or awaiting trial but I really don’t know.

 

[cottonweaver]

I wondered something similiar to this. When there is a murder, does a miscarriage even happen? The bodies muscles would not be contracting. This was still a small fetus so I am thinking it just died from lack of oxygen and stayed inside of SW's body.

think you're right although this is a sensitive subject
Shanann had that T shirt with " 15 weeks - size of an orange" I doubt she would miscarry at this stage, if her body has stopped functioning itself.

 

[Homeschool Mom]

I miscarried at baby at 13 weeks. I did not have cramping or bleeding, but passed the baby. It was determined that the baby had died several weeks earlier. The doctor did a DNC because I never passed the placenta on my own. Even though SW died several days before they found her, it does not mean her body would immediately realease the baby.

Do all miscarriages result in a lot of bleeding? If the baby dies in utero due to the mother being dead, what happens then?

 

[Talisman]

What if there was no plan?

Good point!
Hmmm .. you're right! He might have just throw his hands in the air & said he just had no clue where they were. Like he did in the videos! Hmmpth -
simple as that.

I have to quit trying to get into his mind & reasoning.

 

[cottonweaver]

I am not sure of the specifics bc I’ve never done it but you can put money in an inmates account for them to use at the commissary. I think phone calls are a separate cost to fund. I assume in this sense the rights of people in custody are the same whether convicted or awaiting trial but I really don’t know.

Yes I looked up weld jail and they had for " indigents" an alternative, it was a few dollars per week pack of the basics, some shampoo, toothbrush, a couple of snacks , it's on their site but I wasn't aware Def would pay out of their own pockets - had assumed his own family would pay that.

 

[MyBelle]

Once the jury hears he threw his two young children into tanks of oil, they are going to have a hard time believing he did that even without killing them himself. I don't know if prosecutors will go as far as showing pictures of the girls deceased and covered in oil, but that would undermine his story, imo. Who in the world would dispose of his own children in such a horrible way unless he were guilty of even worse, their murder?

If LE can't prove who killed the girls, I still think the oil tanks will do him in. That's his hurdle to overcome, imo.

jmopinion

I look forward to his explanation and it won't surprise me if he claims an accomplice disposed of the girls. Nothing will surprise me about this case.

 

[cottonweaver]

I look forward to his explanation and it won't surprise me if he claims an accomplice disposed of the girls. Nothing will surprise me about this case.

what did you make of the AB HLN interpretation ( and it is only her interpretation, she couldn't possibly know ) that as he "stares the DPenalty in the face , his request is to make sure these people's names are redacted?"

ie AP/APs whoever they are

 

[MerryB]

I wondered something similiar to this. When there is a murder, does a miscarriage even happen? The bodies muscles would not be contracting. This was still a small fetus so I am thinking it just died from lack of oxygen and stayed inside of SW's body.

I agree.

 

[Ronso]

If she died from strangulation, it's unlikely a miscarriage would occur. The muscles would fail to contract and deliver the baby once SW had died.

 

[MyBelle]

what did you make of the AB HLN interpretation ( and it is only her interpretation, she couldn't possibly know ) that as he "stares the DPenalty in the face , his request is to make sure these people's names are redacted?"

ie AP/APs whoever they are

I think she's sensationalizing it for ratings.

 

[Mystic]

Bear with me, please. (Sorry for the MEGO.) I want to try to explain, from my perspective only, why I think it is relevant and appropriate to discuss some things that some of you are interpreting as victim bashing.
So let's assume for the sake of this argument that SW was genuinely just as kind and sweet and good-hearted as she presents herself on SM, that she doesn't have a mean bone in her body, that she was the perfect wife and mother doing the best she could while suffering from a chronic health condition, and that she didn't have any sort of mental illness or anything like that. She is awesome, and there was no reason in the world for a rational person to dislike her, much less kill her or the children. In short, nothing that happened was her fault. Okay?

Every trial lawyer worth their salt will have a "Theory of the Case" for every case they try. A Theory of the Case is a short, concise statement explaining who did what and why. The shorter the better, the simpler the better. This statement, if true, helps the jurors interpret the individual facts and put them in a larger context.

Think of it like this: each piece of evidence is like a piece to a puzzle. We've got all these pieces, but what kind of picture are we trying to make? Is it a barn? A horse? A lion in the zoo? The Theory of the Case is like the picture on the box: when we put all these puzzle pieces together, you should end up with a picture that's on the box. The prosecution will say, we think these puzzle pieces will fit together to form the image of a cow. The defense will say that the puzzle pieces make a picture of a chicken. The jury has to decide which theory is more consistent with the evidence that they are presented through the witness stand. And once the jurors start to see a particular picture emerge ("Hey, it does sort of look like a cow"), then they will start to interpret facts (puzzle pieces) in a way that is consistent with that image ("Oh,

Here is my theory only, because CW is so intent that they pull DNA from the girls necks, I believe he used something with SW DNA to (its so hard to say) strangle the girls. I believe that it was necessary for the girls to be killed because that was initially his defense for killing SW ( Saw her killing them and reacted accordingly). I think either something didn't go according to plan or he spooked and decided a MP story would be easier to get away with. Of course this is all JMO

I recall watching a show where the murderer took a pair of used plastic gloves .... turning them inside out. I always wear gloves to clean. I really don't know if that would leave dna?

 

[SN76]

I remember someone posting in yesterday’s thread that there would be a lot of blood involved with a miscarriage...perhaps the blood was on the fitted sheet?

She did not physically miscarry..she lost the baby, because her life was lost...

My husband and I were ecstatic when we had news of a third child...went for a scan at 15 weeks we were told the baby was dead and to go home and wait to miscarry (the way they handled this angered me! So nonchalant about it all)...

Anyway, my point is at 15 weeks miscarriage...there isn't just blood on the sheets..its COPIOUS...there would have been blood and tissue everywhere.