CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #15

[MassGuy]

I've considered that as well. It might also be that SW discovered his secret life very recently, or that he was in love with being free to engage in the lifestyle he may have enjoyed when SW and the girls were in NC. I've also considered that he may have been engaging with more than one person when SW and the girls were murdered.

Yeah. There’s no way of knowing if the murders were committed to “free himself” to carry on an illicit relationship, or if they were committed in response to Shannan’s discovery of this. There’s obviously other scenarios as well. I wouldn’t be the least surprised if he was carrying on multiple affairs simultaneously.

 

[Layla123]

Yeah. There’s no way of knowing if the murders were committed to “free himself” to carry on an illicit relationship, or if they were committed in response to Shannan’s discovery of this. There’s obviously other scenarios as well. I wouldn’t be the least surprised if he was carrying on multiple affairs simultaneously.

Even though it was discussed and stated as fact on AB, it may not be true, but I kind of believe it. The People Magazine writer said it, he said he got the tip from an unnamed LE source. We’ll see.

 

[margarita25]

One of the most shocking things for me, is the oil tank aspect. Those bodies have a 100% chance of being discovered (unless I’m missing something), and that location ties the crime directly to him (being his workplace).

Hi MassGuy, glad you joined us, can you please elaborate more on your thoughts about the “100 percent chance” aspect, tia. I’m trying to understand this myself.

Awareness space obviously played a role here; if he snapped, he might have known he had to get rid of the bodies immediately before LE comes in bc he likely knew people were going to miss them quickly. Why did he think they wouldn't be found there?

If premeditated, did he go to work and think “this would be a great place to hide my family's bodies”.

 

[molly1255]

Yeah. There’s no way of knowing if the murders were committed to “free himself” to carry on an illicit relationship, or if they were committed in response to Shannan’s discovery of this. There’s obviously other scenarios as well. I wouldn’t be the least surprised if he was carrying on multiple affairs simultaneously.

I also won't be surprised if multiple simultaneous affairs were going on. He may have been hooking up online, had something going on at work, and who knows what else?

 

[margarita25]

If I haaaaaad to pick, at this time, imo I’m leaning more towards snapped then premeditation.

But this doesn’t mean I don’t think he hadn't thought about it before.

 

[Waterdog]

...Maybe he found out he had an STD and didn't want Shanann to go to her doc appt Monday morning. My cheating ex once deleted a voicemail from my gyno telling me to call back. They were just letting me know everything was normal, but my ex's guilty conscience made him worry...

Interesting motive as to the timing!

 

[Azaria1980]

People are questioning his personnel life but dont want to know other people's experience that seems odd. I didn't mention any names because that is violating my friends privacy but I thought cw was charged with crimes and under investigation so why info about him is off limits im unsure but people keep talking about the victim and her life which seems inappropriate. she isn't here to defend herself. shes not alive. why would people try to make her look like the bad guy shes dead. He laughing. Hes getting laid in jail facing murder charges. Laughing

 

[Jennifer17]

"Text messages and search histories were not deleted" isn't that much to go on. He could have selectively deleted texts and browser history rather than a mass deletion.

I also wouldn't read much into it because he had time after the murders and didn't delete everything, even though he probably was concerned they would learn of his affairs. Although if her learning of the affairs were going to be his explanation for her leaving him, maybe that's why he didn't.

Whatever he selectively deleted could be recovered.

 

[MassGuy]

Hi MassGuy, glad you joined us, can you please elaborate more on your thoughts about the “100 percent chance” aspect, tia. I’m trying to understand this myself.

Awareness space obviously played a role here; if he snapped, he might have known he had to get rid of the bodies immediately before LE comes in bc he likely knew people were going to miss them quickly. Why did he think they wouldn't be found there?

If premeditated, did he go to work and think “this would be a great place to hide my family's bodies”.

I think he picked this place because it was familiar to him. I think this was reactionary, an “oh sh** what do I do now type of thing.

I’m not a scientist, and I don’t pretend to know the first thing about these oil tanks. But I imagine they don’t just sit there, unnatended and neglected. I think there are likely normal procedures in place, that would inhibit the ability of foreign objects to remain, undiscovered for a length of time.

I could absolutely be wrong here, but I think that this maneuver would only delay their discovery, rather than prevent it. I don’t think this type of thing is akin to dumping bodies in the ocean for instance, where they can reasonably be expected to be lost forever.

 

[MassGuy]

Even though it was discussed and stated as fact on AB, it may not be true, but I kind of believe it. The People Magazine writer said it, he said he got the tip from an unnamed LE source. We’ll see.

Yeah. I’m not sold on it, but it does ring true. It doesn’t change much for me at this point, as it appears he was having multiple affairs, regardless of this particular example being true or not.

 

[margarita25]

FTR I have to wonder about the mental and emotional capacities of anyone who blames a murder victim, moo.

 

[margarita25]

I think he picked this place because it was familiar to him. I think this was reactionary, an “oh sh** what do I do now type of thing.

I’m not a scientist, and I don’t pretend to know the first thing about these oil tanks. But I imagine they don’t just sit there, unnatended and neglected. I think there are likely normal procedures in place, that would inhibit the ability of foreign objects to remain, undiscovered for a length of time.

I could absolutely be wrong here, but I think that this maneuver would only delay their discovery, rather than prevent it. I don’t think this type of thing is akin to dumping bodies in the ocean for instance, where they can reasonably be expected to be lost forever.

How awful to think that had he gotten away with this, he might have had to move their bodies at a future time.

ETA: How does he feel when he views the photos of his childrens’ dead bodies immersed in oil? Does he feel? Did he ever feel? Did he feel too much? (Ok did I really just type that? Where am I going with this...how about this: he felt sooo much anger and darkness and maybe jealousy, selfishness, feeling trapped, resentment, and he had been resentful for a long time and eventually snapped, Meaning choked on his own negative emotions.

ETA: omg “choked”...I did not even mean that ironic word on purpose. Wow.

ETA: I wonder about the onset of schizophrenia...has that been mentioned? I have nooo idea if there have been any studies on FAs and any links to schizophrenia.

(O:T, I’ve known a close friend that that happened to suddenly, onset of schizophrenia, or so it seemed. I think he was in his thirties...was he violent though? Not that I know of..nah, thinking about this further, CW, in his videos, doesn’t seem to me at all like my friend (clearly crazy)...Then again. who knows what my friend could do, he is nuts. It wouldn’t surprise me if he did something like this. There are different types of crazy. This guy CW has got to be crazy imo to annhilate his whole family including his own babies. Does this mean he necessarily deserves a mental institution or spa retreat instead of jail? Nope, imo.)

 

[human]

Cleaning the tank. I don’t see how the girls would have ever been found.

https://www.ogj.com/articles/print/...ss-recovers-oil-reduces-hazardous-wastes.html

 

[margarita25]

I know someone in the “oil tank industry”, I’m curious to ask him if he thinks it’s likely they would have ever been found, and if so, when, why and how? (if not via LE’s efforts).

It is to be noted we do not know what digital record LE has on CW’s movement after the murders (my guess is that they do have something possibly). But if they didn’t...Pehaps there is image or sonar type analysis that would have eventually been implemented/utilized in searching the tanks, should LE have suspected tanks based o. Awareness space, etc. Special cameras in the oil maybe? Talk about zero visibility...Idk...how many tanks are there around there anyway??

Has anyone even been found/ recovered in an oil tank before??

I’d be curious to ask Tim Miller what on earth type of specific technology, potential detection methods, etc would be used to search oil tanks.

 

[katydid23]

Yes. Like that! But I was also thinking of something very comprehensive, like emptiness in the person. She doesn't seem to me to have been "real" in so many ways.

I don't understand this description, of her being 'empty' and not real.

There are so many people that she had close, caring, long term relationships with. And according to every account, she was a loving, nurturing mother that was really devoted to her girls.

She was close to her family and had shared some emotional stuff with them just recently. And she had a very debilitating illness that she fought hard to overcome and to live her life fully in spite of it.

I don't get why she is being described as 'empty' and not real.

 

[katydid23]

I'm curious whether you have seen this video, Katydid. At about the 27 min mark, AT talks about how Shanann told her that CW told Shanann he wanted another child.

Thanks, I hadn't watched it to the end. I never saw that part. Hmmm....

 

[margarita25]

Rsbm She doesn't seem to me to have been "real" in so many ways.

What does this have to do with her being murdered? Her not seeming “real” in many ways...

Shanann WAS a “REAL” person. Who was “REALLY MURDERED”. Along with her precious little kids whom she obviously adooooored and cared for immensely.

Yes she was “REAL”. A real person like you and me.

None of us are perfect, and nothing justifies hers or her childrens’ deaths. So why the need to talk about such things because it has no legal value, imo. If anyone needs to be analyzed for “not being real” it’s this nutjob CW. What is the purpose of anyone talking negatively about Shanann? I’ve had it up to my ear balls and I’m done with it. How would you feel if you were the family reading here about she “wasn’t real”.

I understand victimology as related to a MP case, and even here to an extent. But this is out of hand, imo.

 

[katydid23]

I am conflicted, between CW having planned the entire event, or something that happened and spiraled out of control.

Because the disposal of bodies was so disorganized, I am leaning towards CW went crazy on Cece, frustrated, financial issues, hadn't had to deal with kids for several weeks, then had to take of them alone, no doubt angry that SW left for a "vacation", and he lost it. Then, he "had" to kill Bella, she probably saw everything. Then, SW comes home, just "checks" on the kids, goes to bed, and he kills her in bed. He develops a story, dumps the bodies, and thinks he will have a day or two for clean up.

Or he was so enraged, he planned it all. But, if he did, burying the bodies in oil? And shallow grave? At his workplace. Idiot.

I am thinking it was maybe a combination of both.

I think he thought about doing it someday, fantasized about being 'free' from the responsibilities. 'Free' to explore new relationships, maybe a new career. He thought about ridding himself of the family. But maybe hadn't planned on doing it just yet.

But maybe 'something' happened. Maybe someone sent SW a text, saying they saw her husband on tinder or meetme. Or they saw him with his coworker somewhere, while she was out of town. Maybe she came home, and found some 'evidence' in the bedroom, that a man or woman had been there in the bed. She may have flipped out and said she was leaving, filing for divorce, etc etc etc...

That may have forced his hand. If he waited and she began telling people what was going on, he'd never be able to pull off the disappearance scenario.No one would believe him. So he just went for it that night, out of anger and desperation?

 

[Savmom]

Denial. Optimistic go-getters like Shanann never want to believe that things are as bad as they are. Add to that CW's narcissistic gaslighting, and I think she truly believed she was making that happy life she so desperately wanted by just believing hard enough.

I know because I've been there. Think about all the pop culture stuff out there like The Secret and Wayne Dyer that tell hopeful people like Shanann (and the younger me) that "words create worlds"--anything you dream of can be made real with enough positive thinking!

Poor sweet Shanann.

This. My feeling is SW was doing everything within her power to create an ideal life. Unfortunately it takes two to tango & CW had other plans

Almost 30 years ago I entered my 1st marriage. My life seemed perfect: we were both working decent jobs, going to college, had a son, church on Sundays (sang in the church choir & taught Sunday school to boot), purchased our first home, even sold Melaluca for a few years!

I lived in denial through 5 anniversaries while my husband had countless same sex affairs (I had no idea he was gay he played the straight guy part very convincingly).

I read more if-you-believe-it-it-will-happen and Pray Until Something Happens books than were healthy. My belief was that no matter how bad things actually were, my outlook & attitude would set the stage for a better life.

Lord knows I was naive & gullible.

Behind closed doors I was being physically abused & emotionally destroyed. To the outside world we had the picture perfect life. But if you were to peel off the outer layer it would have been rotten to the core.

Thank God I gathered the courage & sense to escape before I ended up with any of the STD's he caught or worse, he killed me and/or our ds!

I've spent a lot of time perusing SW's public pics/videos the last few days. I can see a little bit of my younger self reflected in her smiles and it breaks my heart (not implying CW was abusive just that she wanted the good life so bad she must have missed or ignored the warning signs).

It is beyond impossible to wrap your mind around this crime. To kill your babies & dump them in a filthy oil tank is worse than despicable! Then to lie about them being alive & huddled/cuddled together or whatever he said? Oooooh that chaps my hide!

FWIW CW is a terrible & obvious liar....my 16yo dd watched the don't know where they are please come back video with me without any knowledge of the case. I was curious what her initial reaction would be. About halfway through she asked me if she was the only one who thought the was the worst liar ever! She said, "I'm not saying he's guilty of murder but he sure is lying about something!" Ugh

 

[NanZDrew]

According to AB, there were many affairs, both male and female, and it’s all going to come out. We shall see.

I think this will be the case. I know a narcissist that had sex with as many women as possible regardless of whether or not they were desirable, and he usually had no romantic interest in them nor did he care about them. They were a validation of his desirability.