CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #15

[MyBelle]

Yes, but isn’t their job to counsel their clients to come up with a defense that might be effective? When they’re facing evidence that proves they are lying?

What evidence does LE have that proves CW is lying? I think he did something to the children's bodies such as scraped their necks with SW's finger nails. To me, that is just another indication he really did premeditate this crime.

 

[NanZDrew]

This. My feeling is SW was doing everything within her power to create an ideal life. Unfortunately it takes two to tango & CW had other plans

Almost 30 years ago I entered my 1st marriage. My life seemed perfect: we were both working decent jobs, going to college, had a son, church on Sundays (sang in the church choir & taught Sunday school to boot), purchased our first home, even sold Melaluca for a few years!

I lived in denial through 5 anniversaries while my husband had countless same sex affairs (I had no idea he was gay he played the straight guy part very convincingly).

I read more if-you-believe-it-it-will-happen and Pray Until Something Happens books than were healthy. My belief was that no matter how bad things actually were, my outlook & attitude would set the stage for a better life.

Lord knows I was naive & gullible.

Behind closed doors I was being physically abused & emotionally destroyed. To the outside world we had the picture perfect life. But if you were to peel off the outer layer it would have been rotten to the core.

Thank God I gathered the courage & sense to escape before I ended up with any of the STD's he caught or worse, he killed me and/or our ds!

I've spent a lot of time perusing SW's public pics/videos the last few days. I can see a little bit of my younger self reflected in her smiles and it breaks my heart (not implying CW was abusive just that she wanted the good life so bad she must have missed or ignored the warning signs).

It is beyond impossible to wrap your mind around this crime. To kill your babies & dump them in a filthy oil tank is worse than despicable! Then to lie about them being alive & huddled/cuddled together or whatever he said? Oooooh that chaps my hide!

FWIW CW is a terrible & obvious liar....my 16yo dd watched the don't know where they are please come back video with me without any knowledge of the case. I was curious what her initial reaction would be. About halfway through she asked me if she was the only one who thought the was the worst liar ever! She said, "I'm not saying he's guilty of murder but he sure is lying about something!" Ugh

All to often women think if they can love them enough, or do enough things right, they can fix these broken men. They work and work to fix them. You can't fix someone else. You can encourage them, but you can't fix them. And these types of people tend to seek caretakers...people that will make their lives easier while they suck the life out of them. I think SW was trying to love and build up CW, but he was beyond fixing.

 

[NanZDrew]

This. My feeling is SW was doing everything within her power to create an ideal life. Unfortunately it takes two to tango & CW had other plans

Almost 30 years ago I entered my 1st marriage. My life seemed perfect: we were both working decent jobs, going to college, had a son, church on Sundays (sang in the church choir & taught Sunday school to boot), purchased our first home, even sold Melaluca for a few years!

I lived in denial through 5 anniversaries while my husband had countless same sex affairs (I had no idea he was gay he played the straight guy part very convincingly).

I read more if-you-believe-it-it-will-happen and Pray Until Something Happens books than were healthy. My belief was that no matter how bad things actually were, my outlook & attitude would set the stage for a better life.

Lord knows I was naive & gullible.

Behind closed doors I was being physically abused & emotionally destroyed. To the outside world we had the picture perfect life. But if you were to peel off the outer layer it would have been rotten to the core.

Thank God I gathered the courage & sense to escape before I ended up with any of the STD's he caught or worse, he killed me and/or our ds!

I've spent a lot of time perusing SW's public pics/videos the last few days. I can see a little bit of my younger self reflected in her smiles and it breaks my heart (not implying CW was abusive just that she wanted the good life so bad she must have missed or ignored the warning signs).

It is beyond impossible to wrap your mind around this crime. To kill your babies & dump them in a filthy oil tank is worse than despicable! Then to lie about them being alive & huddled/cuddled together or whatever he said? Oooooh that chaps my hide!

FWIW CW is a terrible & obvious liar....my 16yo dd watched the don't know where they are please come back video with me without any knowledge of the case. I was curious what her initial reaction would be. About halfway through she asked me if she was the only one who thought the was the worst liar ever! She said, "I'm not saying he's guilty of murder but he sure is lying about something!" Ugh

Glad you escaped. SW is a reminder that many women don't.

 

[margarita25]

Delete

 

[margarita25]

Glad you escaped. SW is a reminder that many women don't.

IMO After watching her video, (and I know they might have been having problems previously), but gosh, no way she saw this coming...how could anyone? I mean sometimes a DV victim knows “this guy is going to kill me one day”...

I understand the privacy for many to make things appear more pleasant than thing might actually be, I mean who all really wants air their dirty laundry to everyone, we all have issues..but if I could ask Shanann a question, it would be if, in hindsight, there were any signs.

It is chilling to hear her talk about Chris. How he let her nap on his lap for 3 hours when he had to pee...and him being there for her during her medical challenges...just mind boggling, HIM.

(ETA: I’m just seeing there’s a new show on ID called “Someone You Thought You Knew”)

 

[katydid23]

Yes, but isn’t their job to counsel their clients to come up with a defense that might be effective? When they’re facing evidence that proves they are lying?

But it is hard, because a defense attorney is not allowed to fashion 'lies' in order to create a defense. They can help create 'reasonable doubts' by putting forth other 'possible' scenarios. But they cannot make up a story of lies for the client to tell to the jury.

And if their client has told the detectives that his wife killed their babies, then until he recants, the attorney is stuck with that.

 

[cailleach]

Hello Sleuthers! I've been lurking and waiting for positing privileges for a while now so I feel like I'm already familiar with some of you. I've enjoyed reading the posts and comments but haven't been able to give reactions or responses.

Many have made parallel observations to my own but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is CW's propensity for making his lips disappear - a sure sign of stress and sometimes deceit. Has anyone else noticed it? Thoughts?

 

[margarita25]

I’m watching a news video from last week. A coworker of Mollie Tibbets’ killer says the perp, CR, acted as if nothing was wrong in the days following her death...it reminds me of the video with CW’s neighbors/friends, how he showed no remorse, etc.

One thing that was really sad about the interview with Shanann’s neighbors was how they really didn’t know how they were going to tell their little 5 year old daughter who loves and “asks about them so much”...they said their daughter would eventually be hearing about it so they wanted to tell her themselves, but didn’t quite know how.

 

[cailleach]

All to often women think if they can love them enough, or do enough things right, they can fix these broken men. They work and work to fix them. You can't fix someone else. You can encourage them, but you can't fix them. And these types of people tend to seek caretakers...people that will make their lives easier while they suck the life out of them. I think SW was trying to love and build up CW, but he was beyond fixing.

I will admit that I've found it somewhat disturbing that people keep saying there's no history of DV in CW's background when we should be saying there's been no reports to LE. We still lack societal awareness of the many types of DV victims experience that aren't physical. I've known women whose psyches have been as harmed by emotional, verbal, and financial abuse as those that have incurred battering.

While SW was obviously a capable woman striving to create a good life for her children we have no idea what went on behind closed doors. Women tend to be reluctant to report the more subtle types of abuse for a variety of reasons. Just because it wasn't reported to LE doesn't mean it wasn't happening and I'm guessing as the case unfolds we'll hear more about his control. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

I will admit that I've found it somewhat disturbing that people keep saying there's no history of DV in CW's background when we should be saying there's been no reports to LE. We still lack societal awareness of the many types of DV victims experience that aren't physical. I've known women whose psyches have been as harmed by emotional, verbal, and financial abuse as those that have incurred battering.

While SW was obviously a capable woman striving to create a good life for her children we have no idea what went on behind closed doors. Women tend to be reluctant to report the more subtle types of abuse for a variety of reasons. Just because it wasn't reported to LE doesn't mean it wasn't happening and I'm guessing as the case unfolds we'll hear more about his control. JMO

Hi & welcome cailleach. Enjoyed reading your first post.

Just on the bit in bold above, thought it might be worth saying that we've had a professional in the DV field commenting on the thread ( earlier threads, not as much recently) and I asked her some questions on this as even though I've followed DV cases which lead to murder here on WS, was worth getting it from the pro. Do we always see DV precursor signs ( not charges/LE records ) or surely if not , maybe just Coercive Control signs?

I think spelling is LoreiListener(?) member
Anyway what she said was that often you do not, with discovery, find DV signs ( evidence from the past and LE records) , but you will then usually find CC.

When you're seeing "what people keep saying" ^ , i think that could be posters saying wtte - why are all these ex family friends/ neighbours not out there in the press with comments on subtle sign of CW 's DV in the marriage. We keep hearing how "gentle" he was , blah blah.

 

[mickey2942]

How chilling that the children in the neighborhood played with Cece and Bella, and have no doubt heard that they were killed by their Daddy.

It completely destroys the innocence of children, and perhaps they wonder if their Daddy could kill them. I wonder how a parent can explain that they are safe? The one person who was supposed to be the safest person to be with, was their killer.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

"I have no 'inclination' of where they're at" was a big red flag to me too. I think the word he's going for is 'inkling' and he's perhaps mixing it up with 'indication'. But the result is nonsensical. This tells me:

1) That he is not super bright, as some have claimed. Vocabulary is not necessarily linked with intelligence but still most people would have known that was the wrong word to use.

2) He is obfuscating/bullsh**ting. Someone genuinely concerned about his missing family is going to be speaking in plain everyday language and not dressing his speech up with unnecessary polysyllabic words he only sort of knows the meaning of. He is using fancy language to distance himself from events.

In my opinion

his language really bothers me. He says in this video that was just posted "I have no inclination of where she is" at :0:48... and " I don't have no inclination of where she is " at 2:23





in·cli·na·tion

ˌinkləˈnāSH(ə)n/

noun

1.

a person's natural tendency or urge to act or feel in a particular way

His use of "inclination" bugged me too.

I think he meant to say, "I have no indication."

But that doesn't totally work either because it implies he was supposed to have some information from her about where she is but mysteriously doesn't have it.

So maybe he meant to say, "I have no information but want to sound like I'm concerned to hide the fact that I actually do have information but I don't have another word so I'll just use 'inclination' since it sounds close enough."

He had no inclination to tell the truth.


jmopinion

 

[Bluebythec]

Isn't the first person LE looks at the spouse in a case like this with a missing wife and kids? And wouldn't one of the first things they would go over with a fine toothed comb the spouse's phone??

What if he thought deleting the entire history and texts/calls would look suspicious and he just deleted the incriminating ones so that he still had "history" on those days as he ususally would but only the ones that seemed "normal" ? Of course we know that nothing you delete is really gone unless you take measures after you delete it but he may not have known that. He also may not know that authorities can get your phone history and texts from your carrier.

 

[BUF]

‘Everyone Liked Him’: Did Colorado Dad Chris Watts Lead a Double Life?

 

[Hazelnutty]

What does this have to do with her being murdered? Her not seeming “real” in many ways...

Shanann WAS a “REAL” person. Who was “REALLY MURDERED”. Along with her precious little kids whom she obviously adooooored and cared for immensely.

Yes she was “REAL”. A real person like you and me.

None of us are perfect, and nothing justifies hers or her childrens’ deaths. So why the need to talk about such things because it has no legal value, imo. If anyone needs to be analyzed for “not being real” it’s this nutjob CW. What is the purpose of anyone talking negatively about Shanann? I’ve had it up to my ear balls and I’m done with it. How would you feel if you were the family reading here about she “wasn’t real”.

I understand victimology as related to a MP case, and even here to an extent. But this is out of hand, imo.

Excellent post!

 

[bears10]

Oh not advocates as in lawyers.
Who are the supporters who are paying ? I haven't seen that anywhere.

You are taking me too literally. Just disregard my original comment.

 

[PommyMommy]

‘Everyone Liked Him’: Did Colorado Dad Chris Watts Lead a Double Life?

Some things that stood out to me:

The alleged lover told The Daily Beast on Thursday that he believes he was the first man Chris ever slept with—and that their affair was Chris’ first during his marriage to Shanann. The men would see each other before or after work, or sometimes after 10 p.m., he claimed. He added that they’d usually meet at the man’s place and never at Chris’ home. The man believes Shanann was unaware of their rendezvous, which he claimed ended in spring of this year.

When reached by The Daily Beast, the man’s brother said the story was true. “I know my brother saw a different side of ‘loving’ Chris Watts,” the sibling said, adding that Chris “gave my brother his first lip botox injection.”

Linda Biggers, a realtor who listed Shanann’s home, told The Daily Beast she believes the couple moved because Chris got a job out West. “I think she wanted to get married and move to Colorado with him,” Biggers recalled. “The house was hers; it wasn’t his…. She just had a really beautiful home, it was beautifully furnished.”

 

[bears10]

For phone calls, They call collect and the person on the other end has to accept the charges. It's long distance charges even when they are just a few miles down the road.

There are several options for phone calls, I just didn’t have the time to look it up last night.

Securus - Phone Services

Captcha

 

[Tigerlily75]

Whatever he selectively deleted could be recovered.

Bingo. Unless he's done a full restore on his phone, anything he's "deleted" will be recovered during the forensic analysis. Nothing is really deleted.

When Gerard Baden-Clay claimed to be asleep from 10.30pm until 7 or so in the morning, forensics could even tell what time his iphone was unplugged from the charger, and what time it was plugged back in. (And it was around 1am and then a few hours later plugged back in, all while he was supposedly fast asleep)

 

[GrilledCheezy]

When reached by The Daily Beast, the man’s brother said the story was true. “I know my brother saw a different side of ‘loving’ Chris Watts,” the sibling said, adding that Chris “gave my brother his first lip botox injection.”

S&BBM

This is nonsense. First of all, Botox is never injected in the lips because it's a neurotoxin; he's conflating Botox with fillers like Juvéderm and Restylane. Second of all, there's no way Chris could get any of those items because they're not sold to every random Joe on the street. Give me a break.