CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

[Layla123]

<modsnip>the original question posed was whether the defense could offer CW's recorded confession to prove his version of events, that he saw SW strangle the children on the baby monitor.

The answer to that question is No. The defense may not offer a recording of his own statement because it would be hearsay, which as you know is an out of court statement offered for the proof of the matter asserted. Unless an exception applies, the defendant cannot offer a recorded statement from anyone because the prosecution would have the right to cross-examine the witness.

There are exceptions to the hearsay rule. One of those is that you may offer the out-of-court statement of a party opponent; i.e., the other side. So the prosecution can play the video of CW's confession, and then if CW wants to dispute what he said in the video, he could choose to testify.

You have asserted that the prosecution would use the confession recording and media recording, and I agree with you that they may.

What if the witness was willing to testify?

 

[human]

And the friend calling the police before he could do any more cleaning up.

Do you feel he was going to continue doing something with SW while on the job? Or do you think he would go after work?

When do you think he would report her missing?

 

[BUF]

He may have tried to put SW in but carrying her up those ladders. Probably hard.

None of it makes sense. Is that field one no one goes to? The tanks are a great hiding place. Who would ever imagine that? But with her body there, a search may have ensued and the tanks considered.

Was he going to come back later and redo SW? Maybe a different idea?

I think the plane delay goofed up everything. He may have had a totally different plan.

Someone should compliment him on his brains and see if they can get some info

Good point human...maybe he put SW in the shallow grave and then was going to move her...to another tank at another site. Her plane coming in late threw his whole plan off.

I do think that he disposed of the two girls in separate tanks thinking their bodies would decompose quicker than placing them in one tank...and he did it before SW came home.

 

[Layla123]

I'm not sure what I have done to offend the two of you. Would you care to share that with us?

I don’t think it’s a matter of personal offense, there’s a verification process here, at WS, for members who claim to be professionals. You’d probabably have more credibility if you did that. You should check with Tricia.

 

[sun16]

He didn’t have 2 hours. He left at 5:27am. The oil field was 40 miles from his house. You have to take away at least 40 minutes to get there. Then he had to dig the grave. How long would that take? Expert on AB said 30 minutes to dig 3’ grave. I asked my husband, he said it would take him an hour.

Ok, I see. Thanks! Would be interesting to know what he looked like when he showed up at work. Maybe he had a change of clothes.

 

[Bill Carson]

So, Bill, consider this...as a Texan I can tell you that there are WAY more non-native Texans in the state now than there were before life without parole was an option. And a lot of people from other places just will not do the death penalty. Most people my age who grew up there (even people who would not be much in favor of a death sentence) would not hesitate to vote for the death penalty in a case like this one. True not so many sentences carried out in Colorado, but like your last line said, this could well be one that would be.

Anyhow, I don't really agree or disagree with you...I just think it is interesting. Thanks for the info. I wonder how much input the family has on this? I honestly can't think of anything worse than what CW did..murdering your entire family; two preschoolers and your pregnant wife.

BBM.

I agree with you that attitudes about the death penalty are largely cultural, and many native Texans grew up to believe in the DP because its use was common. People from other parts of the country grew up in different cultures, and if they are on the jury, then the DP may be less likely to be imposed.

 

[Jennifer17]

Do you feel he was going to continue doing something with SW while on the job? Or do you think he would go after work?

When do you think he would report her missing?

I think that he would report her missing later that evening after he had got rid of her stuff.

 

[searchinGirl]

But why was he given antidepressants? Because he was depressed.

If he was taking antidepressants, then he had to be under the care of a psychiatrist. I don’t know if it is a requirement, but I do know that dna tests are done on males to determine the best meds for them to take, or if it’s likely they will have an adverse violent reaction.

 

[Jennifer17]

If he was taking antidepressants, then he had to be under the care of a psychiatrist. I don’t know if it is a requirement, but I do know that dna tests are done on males to determine the best meds for them to take, or if it’s likely they will have an adverse violent reaction.

Where I live GPs can and do prescribe antidepressants.

 

[MyBelle]

He showed zero signs of having a psychotic episode (none of which, from what I have researched, happen suddenly and then resolve within hours), after he murdered his family.

Once again, the attached (Julie Schenecker) is what a psychotic person who kills their family looks like compared to CW just hours after the murders.

I do believe hallucinations can have a number of triggers which include mental illness or drugs, to name but two.

 

[cottonweaver]

I don’t think it’s a matter of personal offense, there’s a verification process here, at WS, for members who claim to be professionals. You’d probabably have more credibility if you did that. You should check with Tricia.

I've been on threads w many unverified attorneys over the 5 years I've been here.
they offer opinions.
You can take them or leave them, or not read them.
Many of them have openly told me that in their view it wasn't worth it, that's up to them

I think making comments about any posters credibility may be an issue here, re ToS.

 

[Bill Carson]

I don’t think it’s a matter of personal offense, there’s a verification process here, at WS, for members who claim to be professionals. You’d probabably have more credibility if you did that. You should check with Tricia.

No, I'm pretty sure it's personal. I'm pretty sure that some people don't like my positions on this investigation and they will do what they can to quash my opinions.

I really don't care to be verified because I don't practice criminal law in this state, and I don't want to hold myself out as an expert on the subject. I don't really care if people give my opinions any more credibility than anyone else. I have made it very clear to include caveats in my answers that I'm not a criminal defense attorney, but here's what I do know, and I have tried my best to include articles that explain things better than I can, like the death penalty in Colorado. I don't come here to prove how smart I am---I am learning a lot from you guys, and I prefer it that way.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

 

[Layla123]

I've been on threads w many unverified attorneys over the 5 years I've been here.
they offer opinions.
You can take them or leave them, or not read them.
Many of them have openly told me that in their view it wasn't worth it, that's up to them

I think making comments about any posters credibility may be an issue here, re ToS.

Oh, I may be mistaken. I thought I read a post that said if you’re going to claim you’re offering an opinion as a professional, you need to be verified. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry.

 

[kay74]

Someone else posted this before and I don't agree with it at all. The drug does not cause you to kill yourself or someone else UNLESS that is where you were at anyway. When people are severely depressed and it has been allowed to go untreated (by meds/therapy) for a long period of time they are already thinking those thoughts. If given meds without therapy or not frequent enough therapy this is when it happens. It is most likely that happen in the first months of being on the meds or sudden withdrawl, not taking them properly. So it is at the beginning of their medication therapy that these suicides generally occur. The meds give them their "energy" for lack of a better word, back. It does NOT make them think evil thoughts or the like. The thoughts were already there as a result of NOT being diagnosed and treated promptly enough. I will debate this one til the cows come home.

Also, it is normally the age group of late teens to early 20's that suicide. Well that is the age when chronic depression normally hits people for the first time. Most kids in that age group are not exactly open with their parents in regards to much of anything going on in their lives therefore when these symptoms occur they are not forthcoming with them so go untreated for long periods of time. Even attentive parents sometimes do not see the struggle their kids are going through during this time. Many I assume shrug it off to moody, hormonal teens and young adults. This is become soooooooooooo prevelent today where kids are resorting to suicide and the media will always say the kid was on anti-depressants if that is the case but they never give the whole story, the kid went a year or two not being treated or diagnosed PRIOR to finally seeking help. By then it is a serious issue and can have a horrible result.

There IS one drug I know of that is an anti-depressant/ anti anxiety and it is Wellbutrin (sp) it was not only used for an anti-anxiety and depression it was also used for people attempting to stop smoking. I personally knew close friends and relatives that could not take it as it made their already moody selves moodier and angry almost aggresive. It is also happens to be one of the few anti-depressants that has a laundry list of side effects as well as a high risk of drug interactions which can cause serious problems. Many of the cases where suicide occurred and ant-depressants were believed to be at fault, Wellbutrin was the medication in question. I've yet to meet a person who has successfully taken the drug although clearly there are people who have or it wouldn't still be on the market. I do not understand why because one of the worst issues with the drug is it's inability to be mixed with some of the more common over the counter drugs people might use while taking the medication. Medicines such as inhalers for asthma as well as simple over the counter allergy pills given to someone taking Wellbutrin have led to serious drug reactions. There is an ingredient in it and also Zyban that has a really bad track record for causing side effects mostly DUE to other medications or supplements the person is already taking. Everyone I know that used it for stopping smoking couldn't handle the side effects which appeared to be exacerbated by Wellbutrin. Anxiety is a common withdrawal symptom for those stopping smoking. Apparently a side effect of this particular anti-anxiety drug is in fact ANXIETY. WTH. Why is it still on the market. Chantax is another one that causes extreme side effects. My husband had such a bad time attempting to quit smoking using it that he too became depressed and had horrible nightmares. Many birth control drugs have been linked to extreme aggression as well as IUD's. So it is not uncommon for other drugs to alter one's behavior yet you never hear about these as a cause of suicide in Chantax's case or assaults or DV blamed on birth control when in fact they probably happen more frequently then we know.

I happened to look into this particular thing when I saw my daughter's demeanor change incredibly when she first started taking BC. I too had an issue with them back in the day and the doctor had me try 3 different brands. Each one resulted in me having these hormonal meltdowns. I gave up and refused to take them. When it happened to my daughter I did an online search and stumbled onto a forum where young women from young teens to women in their 30's were discussing it. They 'actually felt they were going crazy because they were acting so bizarre while taking these drugs yet felt normal again weeks after stopping taking them. They themselves figured out the drug was the problem. My daughter had major issues and chose an IUD. It did a total number on her. She refused to have it removed but it caused crying jags, depression, and for her the worst was a horrible case of cystic acne. A kid that didn't have more then a few pimples in all her teens woke up one day and her face was horrific. My personal opinion is NOTHING should be planted in you for 5 years at a time. Your body will fight it and there has to be a lot of hormones in there to last 5 years!

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think that he would report her missing later that evening after he had got rid of her stuff.

He said he text her after he left the house that morning. Her phone was still in their loft. Her pings would have shown her phone never left the house. Plus it would show she never called nor texted anyone while he was at work.

Then he would probably have said they may have been abducted from the home while he was at work.

But the neighbors camera would have shown that to be impossible.

So this guy was screwed anyway we look at it. Jmo.

 

[searchinGirl]

Where I live GPs can and do prescribe antidepressants.

Perhaps you are right about that. I could be making assumptions about how it is supposed to work and not how it sometimes does. I have noticed in the last few years a lot of prescription scrutiny for lack of a better word. More so with opiates, but the Drs I know would refer you to a psychiatrist for a diagnoses if you said you were depressed.

 

[Waterdog]

Where I live GPs can and do prescribe antidepressants.

I think this is dangerous.

 

[kay74]

I think this is dangerous.

Yup they do where I live too.

 

[cottonweaver]

Oh, I may be mistaken. I thought I read a post that said if you’re going to claim you’re offering an opinion as a professional, you need to be verified. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry.

A member's post?

Pls note that verification is an OPTION, a choice acc to WS.
if you WISH to be identified as one, in any specialist area.

 

[BabyButterfly]

I can’t, I don’t think it’s available online. If you have a Public Library card you might be able to access it through your local library’s online full text periodical database, if they have one.

Jumping in, it might be available on Amazon prime?