CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

[mickey2942]

Medication is not causation, but potential correlation.

And really, when there is a correlation between psychotropic medications and crime, it is because people who are more likely to commit crimes, usually have some underlying mental health conditions.

Not that taking psychotropic medication causes criminal behavior!

 

[Herat]

I keep seeing this image in news reports about this case, but I don't think it has anything to do with this case.

Do you guys recognize the picture? It looks like a trackhoe digging a ditch. The caption says, "The oil field where the bodies were found near the family's Frederick home." Well, for one, the oil field where the bodies were found was 40 miles away! I wouldn't call that "near the family's Frederick home." I think this photo is completely unrelated to the Watts case. Thoughts?

Not THIS again.

Bill, the press knew LE was searching for bodies so they got a press helicopter up and were monitoring the LE scanner trying to find out where roads were being closed (assuming they would close an adjacent road to search for the bodies- a reasonable idea)

This is from a 37 min video of the helicopter flying around rather randomly and never getting anywhere near the CERVI 319 well.

This is an area of road repair where there were 3 LE vehicles closing the road where recent rains had flooded a concrete culvert and undercut the roadbed. There must be 8 white contractor trucks there and guys with road crew hardhats and vests. No coroner-type vans. If you look closely, you can see the red cones on the the roadbed in a cresent where the roadbed is damaged. There were two guys in blue shirts peering into the culvert & there was an excavator at the side that had been there for a while.

I've watched all 37 minutes of this video several times now and the copter is never anywhere near the area- they must be 30 miles away at the closest.
It has NOTHING to do with the crime scene

 

[gitana1]

Could this not show some form of motive? I honestly don't know the answer to this question. Perhaps @gitana1 may?

I think if part of a pattern showing he was uninterested in family life and wanted out. But unless he was in the affair at the time of the murders it might be hard to get in. Prejudicial and not relevant.

 

[Harriet Vane]

Not sure if we should even keep discussing this because it’s really not germane to the case, but DNA testing for the best treatment is still in its infancy and not widely used, and certainly not for “violent reactions”.

We don’t know if CW was taking antidepressants (or anything besides Thrive) but IMO it’s extremely unlikely that antidepressants in some way caused this tragic event. Between 10 and 13% of Americans take antidepressants daily, which is 32 million! An increase in suicidal thoughts occurs in less than 1%, and violent behavior as a result of antidepressants is even less common.

I know we all want to understand WHY this happened, and we are grasping at any and all speculation to try to understand. But demonizing antidepressants actually harms people by making them less likely to seek help.

Thanks, I agree, I have seen nothing to indicate that dna testing is used for men to prevent “violent reactions”. Also agree that it seems a little pointless discussing this, as we have nothing to indicate that CW was even taking antidepressants, but didn’t want to let that previous assertation go unchallenged.

 

[JDough]

I think if part of a pattern showing he was uninterested in family life and wanted out. But unless he was in the affair at the time of the murders it might be hard to get in. Prejudicial and not relevant.

That makes sense. Thank you!

 

[margarita25]

If 7:30am work arrival is true, it’d be interesting to know if it took him two hours to dump all three bodies. Or, if he went somewhere after dumping the bodies (a place to clean up?, a restaurant/coffee shop?), or if he just hung out in the fields till 7:30am. Had to have been dirty/sweaty.

There is a fantastic video on YouTube “CW: Looking for the Oil Well”. It is filmed by a local and gives a fantastic driving view of the area, show I just how awful and remote this location is, the routes in and out, etc. At one point he stops at a convenience store. I would guess LE has checked into this place.

As for the video, I have sent it over to @Tricia to get approval from her before posting it.

 

[margarita25]

Could that just be a clerk or low level employee who has info?

I’m recalling here during Jessica Ridgeway’s case, different “wives” I knew that claimed to have secret information, wives of EMTs, cops...none of their information was correct.

 

[AllGrace]

Why did my post correcting another users misinformation about IUDs get deleted? It was my first post, yes, but it was relevant to the conversation. Thanks for the warm welcome, I guess.

Don't take it personally. One of my first ones a few weeks back was deleted. While you were answering a question, it was off topic and not pertinent to the case.

 

[Bill Carson]

Not THIS again.

Bill, the press knew LE was searching for bodies so they got a press helicopter up and were monitoring the LE scanner trying to find out where roads were being closed (assuming they would close an adjacent road to search for the bodies- a reasonable idea)

This is from a 37 min video of the helicopter flying around rather randomly and never getting anywhere near the CERVI 319 well.

This is an area of road repair where there were 3 LE vehicles closing the road where recent rains had flooded a concrete culvert and undercut the roadbed. There must be 8 white contractor trucks there and guys with road crew hardhats and vests. No coroner-type vans. If you look closely, you can see the red cones on the the roadbed in a cresent where the roadbed is damaged. There were two guys in blue shirts peering into the culvert & there was an excavator at the side that had been there for a while.

I've watched all 37 minutes of this video several times now and the copter is never anywhere near the area- they must be 30 miles away at the closest.
It has NOTHING to do with the crime scene

Thank you. That's what I thought, but I wasn't around for the early days, and didn't read through all the thread.

 

[Mom24]

I don't know if this has been discussed, but what were the sizes of the oil containers and how did he manage to procure them? I keep thinking this had to be pre-planned. The oil containers aren't just sitting around for the taking, this is a regulated industry with EPA regulations regarding the number and storage of containers. To pull them aside and what, hide them on the property somewhere? And the holes had to be large as well, not something you could dig and not be noticed doing.

 

[kay74]

Medication is not causation, but potential correlation.

And really, when there is a correlation between psychotropic medications and crime, it is because people who are more likely to commit crimes, usually have some underlying mental health conditions.

Not that taking psychotropic medication causes criminal behavior!

That's right but antidepressants are not antipsychotic drugs. That's a whole different thing.

 

[borndem]

Thank you for your hard work, sillybilly.

Let's all try, try to keep this clean, folks!

 

[lisan3902]

Or, he put them there on purpose because he wanted them never to be found! IMO

First time I have posted here...I agree, he placed them in hopes to never be found. I hold the belief that he planned to go back and place SW more securely. I also lean towards the girls being killed first but I could be wrong.

I am so very saddened by this case. I keep goggling news articles in hopes to understand what happened that night/early morning. I don't believe for a second that she killed the girls but unfortunately his claim can cause reasonable doubt. CW is a coward and a deceitful and arrogant narcissist, imo. I do believe these cowardly acts were premeditated despite what appears as poor planning. So very tragic and senseless. Edit: spelling and grammar

 

[ethoma12002]

Why did my post correcting another users misinformation about IUDs get deleted? It was my first post, yes, but it was relevant to the conversation. Thanks for the warm welcome, I guess.

Hi! I just saw that admin deleted over 100 posts today because of off-topic conversation. Your post must have been included.

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip>the original question posed was whether the defense could offer CW's recorded confession to prove his version of events, that he saw SW strangle the children on the baby monitor.

The answer to that question is No. The defense may not offer a recording of his own statement because it would be hearsay, which as you know is an out of court statement offered for the proof of the matter asserted. Unless an exception applies, the defendant cannot offer a recorded statement from anyone because the prosecution would have the right to cross-examine the witness.

There are exceptions to the hearsay rule. One of those is that you may offer the out-of-court statement of a party opponent; i.e., the other side. So the prosecution can play the video of CW's confession, and then if CW wants to dispute what he said in the video, he could choose to testify.

You have asserted that the prosecution would use the confession recording and media recording, and I agree with you that they may.

With respect, you are mistating the law. An admission by a party opponent is not a hearsay exception. It is not hearsay at all. Colorado Rules of Evidence Rule 801 d 2.

We all learn that in law school as the law on the that is based on the common law and is virtually the same federally and in every state.

I feel it is important to be accurate when we hold ourselves out to be professionals, because our friends here rely on our expert opinions to be reliable.

"Exceptions" and not hearsay at all are two different things.

Also, no. That was not the original question. The original question was about the media interviews. People were worried those would not come in. Your response to that was that you couldn't see how those interviews would be relevant to the guilt or innocence phases of the trial. People responded that they were disappointed. I explained that you are incorrect. That's not meant to be attacking. That's my professional opinion.

We see media interviews come in at trial in the guilt phase, regularly, when the defendant does NOT testify. I cited to a famous example - Scott Peterson.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/celebrity/peterson-trial-jurors-hear-scotts-voice/amp/

See below:

@gitana and bill... do you think that they would get in? is the probative vs. Prejudicial outweighing?

Um....I'm going to guess that the media interviews might be introduced during the punishment phase of the trial. I can't think of why they might be relevant to the guilt or innocence phase.....well, unless CW testifies, in which case it could be used to show he had a different story before, i.e., goes to his credibility and truthfulness.

Sort of like this....

ETA: From what I have heard about the punishment for the charges, if convicted CW will receive an automatic sentence of life without parole. In that case, there would be no punishment phase of the trial. If the state does decide to seek the death penalty, then the jury (or judge) would have to decide between death and life without parole. I think he will plead and get life w/o parole.

An objection of more prejudicial than probative would be flatly overruled. Yes. They will get in and they will be used to show consciousness of guilt. That objection may be successful if used to prevent admission of things like photos of the babies after autopsy. Things like that. Because such images would highly inflame the jury but not be that relevant to proving any element of the crimes.

Recordings of the defendant a day after his wife supposedly murdered their kids and he lost his mind and took her life? This is highly relevant to whether there is any evidence of diminished capacity or "passion" that could lead to a reduced felony as to consciousness of guilt - was he attempting to conceal the crime? Was he calm and collected as he lied?

Those interviews will come in and much like the phone calls and Diane Sawyer interviews that the jury watched and listened to in deciding whether scott Peterson was guilty of murder, or the interviews the jury in the jodi arias case watched when deciding her guilt or innocence, those interviews will sink him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/celebrity/peterson-trial-jurors-hear-scotts-voice/amp/

Disappointing as I would have thought that would have been part of their prosecution case in chief to show how he was acting afterwards and trying to cover up. I know that it made a lot of us doubt his story from the beginning! Too bad that the jury would not hear it. I believe it made Jodi Arias case in the case in Chief all of her media interviews.

<modsnip: rude comment> It is highly relevant and admissible evidence in the guilt phase. I am very confident this evidence will be offered by the prosecution and admitted by the court.

It's gold for the state. Incredible evidence.

 

[mickey2942]

That's right but antidepressants are not antipsychotic drugs. That's a whole different thing.

Actually, antipsychotics are psychotropic medications. It is in the same class. And same exact conclusions, people who are psychotic, bi-polar are more likely to commit crimes, but that does not mean that the medication had any type of causation to commit a crime.

 

[stereopticons]

That's right but antidepressants are not antipsychotic drugs. That's a whole different thing.

Mickey said psychotropic drugs, which includes (among others) antidepressants and antipsychotics.

 

[kay74]

Actually, antipsychotics are psychotropic medications. It is in the same class. And same exact conclusions, people who are psychotic, bi-polar are more likely to commit crimes, but that does not mean that the medication had any type of causation to commit a crime.

I said "antidepressants" are not antipsychotic drugs.

 

[EvolutionX]

Don't take it personally. One of my first ones a few weeks back was deleted. While you were answering a question, it was off topic and not pertinent to the case.

Okay! I was a bit confused, I see pretend phone conversations and chitter chatter posts so I guess I assumed my post would be okay lol! Got it!

Hi! I just saw that admin deleted over 100 posts today because of off-topic conversation. Your post must have been included.

Okay thanks!

 

[kay74]

Mickey said psychotropic drugs, which includes (among others) antidepressants and antipsychotics.

No antipsychotic drugs keep you from becoming psychotic, antidepressants do not do that.

 

[stereopticons]

No antipsychotic drugs keep you from becoming psychotic, antidepressants do not do that.

I think you are conflating psychotropic and antipsychotic. Psychotropic is ANY drug or class of drug that alters emotion, mind, or behavior. Antidepressants are psychotropic and so are antipsychotics.