CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
it's been explained a few times by Gitana. She said that it was the only way that in the state of Colorado they could charge him for killing of Nico as Colorado is one of the few states that doesn't have a specific charge for fetuses.

(Thanks, sorry for that moment of panic. I knew about the fetus statutes but saw that quote and the way it was worded made me jump out my seat as I must have missed the discussion about that particular quote the first time. I don’t think that was written very clearly contextually, moo.)
 
I don't think anyone could follow his thought processes. I am completely undecided about whether it was premeditated or not, but I think that he must have thought about it before, but not actually planned it out. Just thought that if they weren't there he would pleased.

I'm hoping CW's pathetic attempt at blaming SW will be quickly quashed and the prosecution will set out the events as the evidence is produced. This is where it gets tricky because if it can't be proven CW planned the murders well in advance, the next scenario would be something like the MacDonald case, I think, which would still be a good outcome. An argument turned physical which led to the deaths of his pregnant wife and 2 daughters. (MacDonald was convicted of one count of first-degree murder in the death of Kristen and two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Colette and Kimberly).

One of the children or SW could be second-degree murder or involuntarily manslaughter, and the murder of the other child or SW (which ever way the evidence presents itself), is first-degree murder. There isn't any way out for him with the first-degree murder charge for at least one of the victims, imo. I should hope he'll be found guilty of the one count of unlawful termination of pregnancy and two counts of tampering with a deceased human body without a doubt.

This case has brought me back to WS, I thought I'd had enough of following trials. I just can't understand what went wrong, if CW was unhappy with his life he could have walked out the door.
I'm wondering if shame was a big factor in his disordered mind. CW can't handle other's being disappointed in him. Otherwise, I haven't a clue, there must have been red flags earlier though, imo.
 
I think CW had been mulling ways to "get out" of marriage, fatherhood, financial responsibilities, etc. I think something came to light for Shanann during the trip back east, and then perhaps solidified for her prior to and during the AZ trip.

I think CW killed the girls prior to SW returning home from AZ, and when her plane was delayed, he found himself in a time crunch deluxe. He had played his hand and had to finish what he started, and now had a much shorter amount of time to do so.

Otherwise, why wouldn't he have waited for a better, more opportune time, when he wouldn't be rushed to dispose of the bodies, clean up, and stage the scene?

I've skipped some pages in my reading to catch up, so my apologies if I missed a pertinent discussion.
 
I'm going to assume he could see through the doorbell camera that her car did not leave. And that she was still there. Good point

You answer the Ring on your phone and talk. Or you don’t answer.
If you answer and talk, you end the call just like a phone call. 1 party has to hang up.

We have a Ring doorbell at front door and a Nest video camera that covers driveway and street. My Ring doorbell “alerts” when it gets windy or when it rains or when a cat walks down the walkway at 3:24 am.
Same thing with the Nest video camera- alerts when there is motion or sound, and you get a “still image” of car or walkers and dogs or a spider in front of the sensor at night. The image is accompanied by the word sound or motion.

If you polled my neighbors they would say no one has cameras when there are at least 6 houses on our street with cameras. Some are Nest and some are really high end. I see them when I walk our dogs.

My point to you all - I get so many alerts I don’t pay attention to them.
CW must have switched to the “live view” so he could monitor continously when he left the house.
 
Ok so...(***extreme side-eye look***) it took this guy TWO HOURS to get to his house when his pregnant wife is missing???

Oh and btw he had zero clue apparently that his pregnant wife had a 10 am Dr. appt.

Does not sound like a very involved wonderful husband.
Just my own observations.
If he were my son in law or brother in law I would be like, "whaddaya mean you didn't know she had a Dr. appt? Where were you? Why did it take you two hours to get over there???"
And if I had seen those sheets in the trash can I would have taken pics yanked one of those police officers in the garage and told him to arrest that .
And btw...I would have known that code and while he was in the house with the police I would have been pressing that keypad on that garage door and if it didn't work I would be inspecting that thing as to why...cuz it's not rocket science.

I'm now reading the arrest affidavit with a new eye. It says that they saw the bedding at the floor of the bed on the date Nicole and the officers went up.

It was Wednesday that they found the pillow cases and the top sheet in the garbage can.

The top sheet and pillow cases could have been part of the bedding that was seen on Monday in the master bedroom.

From the affidavit, we don't know if they check the trash cans for the top sheet and the pillow cases on Monday. Nicole might know. The reason I say this is because the affidavit referring to Monday just says bedding.
 
Yes, they went through the house on Monday. They observed the bedding on the floor of the master bedroom. On Wednesday, they found pillowcases and a top sheet in the kitchen trash.



Her purse was found on the kitchen island.

The documents are here: Colorado Judicial Branch

The affidavit is the third document from the bottom.

Maybe SW suspected something had gone on it that bed and threw the bedding on the floor and away herself?
 
Does anyone else feel like this?

I want answers. I can't wrap my head around it, and I get a little obsessive reading these threads, hoping to have some sense of it. I didn't know Shanann and her babies, but as a mother/sister/aunt, it hurts to think of this happening to them just the same.

So when the details eventually come, it's going to be awful. Reading about Christian Longo and Jeffrey McDonald twist my stomach.

I feel like if/when the crimes of CW are laid out, reconstructed - for court, for a true crime TV show - it's going to be heart rending.

Does anyone else feel like when we get some of the answers we search for, it's going to hurt?


PS Bella's little face - love it. She reminds me of pics of me as a toddler/preschooler. I didn't have much hair yet either. Another reason to feel emotions for a family I never met.
 
Bringing this forward again as we try to make sense of the nonsensical:

“Obviously it is very difficult for the rest of us to even comprehend how someone can get himself to a state of mind where the children become expendable," Dr Gregory said.
"But sometimes the children in these cases have almost become pawns in a game - the children have become a way of getting back at his wife, a way of punishing her - or they have become belongings of his that he feels he can't leave behind.
"You've often got men who are holding down jobs, they're men who have got a lot invested in their world and particularly, often, in the family on which they then turn the violence."
The trigger to kill is often the failure of the relationship with the mother, or a dispute over the children if the marriage has already ended.
"He will then want to retrieve his control," Dr Gregory said.
"It is a desperate way to do it, and it is perverse, because in retrieving the control he is also losing his own life, but this man has got himself into such a state of mind that says 'if I can't have them, then no one can'.“

What creates a 'family annihilator'?
———-

“The profile of a family annihilator is a middle-aged man, a good provider who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father,' Levin said. 'He quite often tends to be quite isolated. He is often profoundly dedicated to his family, but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy, but then suffers some catastrophic loss. It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship. He doesn't hate his children, but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life. He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness. He wants to execute revenge and the motive is almost always to "get even".'“

Focus: Fathers who kill their children

Fascinating. To break it down, with quotes from the above in green:

The profile of a family annihilator is a middle-aged man, Check!

a good provider Check!

who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father Check!

He quite often tends to be quite isolated Check!

He is often profoundly dedicated to his family Check!

but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. Check! In spades.

He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy Unable to determine.

but then suffers some catastrophic loss Unknown

It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship Could this be the bankruptcy or something indicated by the HOA lawsuit? Or the possibility of separation and divorce?

He doesn't hate his children Check, from what we can tell

but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life Unable to determine as any analysis into this area would be considered victim blaming and against TOS. ***But see note below.

He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness He did seem quite powerless in the relationship, but this observation should be be takes as a criticism of SW.

He wants to execute revenge Revenge for what? We don't know.

and the motive is almost always to "get even" "Get even" for what? We're not going to go there because it would be victim blaming.

*** This is what I was trying to examine in earlier threads----why did he hate her, and what was he blaming her for. But again, we can't be perceived to be blaming the victim when we discuss this, even though CW did.
 
You answer the Ring on your phone and talk. Or you don’t answer.
If you answer and talk, you end the call just like a phone call. 1 party has to hang up.

We have a Ring doorbell at front door and a Nest video camera that covers driveway and street. My Ring doorbell “alerts” when it gets windy or when it rains or when a cat walks down the walkway at 3:24 am.
Same thing with the Nest video camera- alerts when there is motion or sound, and you get a “still image” of car or walkers and dogs or a spider in front of the sensor at night. The image is accompanied by the word sound or motion.

If you polled my neighbors they would say no one has cameras when there are at least 6 houses on our street with cameras. Some are Nest and some are really high end. I see them when I walk our dogs.

My point to you all - I get so many alerts I don’t pay attention to them.
CW must have switched to the “live view” so he could monitor continously when he left the house.


The last part of your statements are exactly my point. That he had it on live view. And I believe that they will be able to establish that through their provider?
 
I'm now reading the arrest affidavit with a new eye. It says that they saw the bedding at the floor of the bed on the date Nicole and the officers went up.

It was Wednesday that they found the pillow cases and the top sheet in the garbage can.

The top sheet and pillow cases could have been part of the bedding that was seen on Monday in the master bedroom.

From the affidavit, we don't know if they check the trash cans for the top sheet and the pillow cases on Monday. Nicole might know. The reason I say this is because the affidavit referring to Monday just says bedding.

Ok thanks for clarifying. :)
I still hate him.
 
I'm now reading the arrest affidavit with a new eye. It says that they saw the bedding at the floor of the bed on the date Nicole and the officers went up.

It was Wednesday that they found the pillow cases and the top sheet in the garbage can.

The top sheet and pillow cases could have been part of the bedding that was seen on Monday in the master bedroom.

From the affidavit, we don't know if they check the trash cans for the top sheet and the pillow cases on Monday. Nicole might know. The reason I say this is because the affidavit referring to Monday just says bedding.

So do you think that he mistakenly left the fitted sheet he’d used to move SW’s body at the work site, and did not realize it until he returned home to wash the sheets & make the bed?
He then panicked & decided to throw out the matching top sheet & pillowcases so the fitted sheet wouldn’t be able to be matched with anything in the home?
But then why would he miss getting that trash out on Tuesday?
 
I'm going to assume he could see through the doorbell camera that her car did not leave. And that she was still there. Good point

He could probably see on the doorbell camera that NU tried to get in the house. She apparently opened the front door, and was only prevented from going in by the child latch.
 
Total speculation here (and gruesome). I've been thinking about how CW seems passive - not someone prone to strike out, at least not physically. I'm assuming that he told the truth when he said they all were strangled.

He didn't beat them, which would take being very active...yet strangling them is very intimate and not "passive" in the sense you need to hold the squeeze while in their face. Hard to be detached from that act of violence.

Unless you covered their heads with a pillow case.

jmopinion at the moment, thinking aloud

Which would mean you would have to remove the pillowcase first to do that.

I believe that act, in itself, is enough to qualify as Premeditation.
 
So do you think that he mistakenly left the fitted sheet he’d used to move SW’s body at the work site, and did not realize it until he returned home to wash the sheets & make the bed?
He then panicked & decided to throw out the matching top sheet & pillowcases so the fitted sheet wouldn’t be able to be matched with anything in the home?
But then why would he miss getting that trash out on Tuesday?

I don't think he even knew the sheet was visible. I think he assumed it went into the grave and it was only when LE told him that he realized it
 
Yes, they went through the house on Monday. They observed the bedding on the floor of the master bedroom. On Wednesday, they found pillowcases and a top sheet in the kitchen trash.



Her purse was found on the kitchen island.

The documents are here: Colorado Judicial Branch

The affidavit is the third document from the bottom.

The bedding makes no sense. When I am changing sheets I throw everything on the floor . So having a stripped bed would not be that unusual per se.

But throwing the sheets and pillowcase in the garbage? Is there a scenario that anyone can think of that he could use to implicate SW?

He had an original plan I am sure that was totally upset by the late plane and NU .

Why not wash the sheets and remake the bed? Of course, a bottom sheet is missing .

I doubt if SW is like me. I bought sheets from a high end store when they went on clearance. I would buy each piece separately . Usually there was no set so they only matched in color. I imagine SW’s sheets were totally matched and a missing one would stand out.

So what’s up with linens in the trash?
 
(Thanks, sorry for that moment of panic. I knew about the fetus statutes but saw that quote and the way it was worded made me jump out my seat as I must have missed the discussion about that particular quote the first time. I don’t think that was written very clearly contextually, moo.)

No problem! Most people that have not seen that review by Gitana or the presser the had that did they explained the reasoning, do not know that. It has happened a a lot on this thread, at least 8 times and all of us are willing to get you up-to-date as to why!

Now, the next time that somebody that has not seen the explanation that is new to the board, or has missed due to fast moving threads, you can help them too!
 
Fascinating. To break it down, with quotes from the above in green:

The profile of a family annihilator is a middle-aged man, Check!

a good provider Check!

who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father Check!

He quite often tends to be quite isolated Check!

He is often profoundly dedicated to his family Check!

but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. Check! In spades.

He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy Unable to determine.

but then suffers some catastrophic loss Unknown

It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship Could this be the bankruptcy or something indicated by the HOA lawsuit? Or the possibility of separation and divorce?

He doesn't hate his children Check, from what we can tell

but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life Unable to determine as any analysis into this area would be considered victim blaming and against TOS. ***But see note below.

He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness He did seem quite powerless in the relationship, but this observation should be be takes as a criticism of SW.

He wants to execute revenge Revenge for what? We don't know.

and the motive is almost always to "get even" "Get even" for what? We're not going to go there because it would be victim blaming.

*** This is what I was trying to examine in earlier threads----why did he hate her, and what was he blaming her for. But again, we can't be perceived to be blaming the victim when we discuss this, even though CW did.
Here's the thing Bill on the last 2 points...if he is indeed a narcissist...he wants revenge because he blames her for his perceived bad situation. And he blames her because (since he is a narcissist) it must always be someone else's fault.

So for normal people like you and me (assuming we are both normal ha ha) there is no valid reason. So for us, it will never really make sense. To someone like him it is reasonable. To reasonable people, it is senseless.
 
So do you think that he mistakenly left the fitted sheet he’d used to move SW’s body at the work site, and did not realize it until he returned home to wash the sheets & make the bed?
He then panicked & decided to throw out the matching top sheet & pillowcases so the fitted sheet wouldn’t be able to be matched with anything in the home?
But then why would he miss getting that trash out on Tuesday?

The police were there on Tuesday, and I'm sure he knew that they would examine the contents of his trash. You don't have to have a search warrant for that.
 
Ok so...(***extreme side-eye look***) it took this guy TWO HOURS to get to his house when his pregnant wife is missing???

Oh and btw he had zero clue apparently that his pregnant wife had a 10 am Dr. appt.

Does not sound like a very involved wonderful husband.
Just my own observations.
If he were my son in law or brother in law I would be like, "whaddaya mean you didn't know she had a Dr. appt? Where were you? Why did it take you two hours to get over there???"
And if I had seen those sheets in the trash can I would have taken pics yanked one of those police officers in the garage and told him to arrest that .
And btw...I would have known that code and while he was in the house with the police I would have been pressing that keypad on that garage door and if it didn't work I would be inspecting that thing as to why...cuz it's not rocket science.

The sheets were not noted to be in the trash can when Nicole was there. It only stated bedding upstairs. We don't know if the bedding was upstairs included the sheets and they did not search the trash cans when they were there that day.

Note to self! If somebody is missing check their trash cans.
 
The last part of your statements are exactly my point. That he had it on live view. And I believe that they will be able to establish that through their provider?

I think it depends on whether you pay for monthly cloud storage. We do not. But as my cloud working husband says- it should be up there somewhere.

Two reporters in our city left home in suburbia to drive 22 miles to their office and found their drive was about 90% visible to cameras on highways, neighborhoods, businesses, schools,etc.

I’m sure CW/SW neighbors and surrounding areas had cameras. It’ll be tedious work. I’m sure it’s been underway since the beginning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
64
Guests online
457
Total visitors
521

Forum statistics

Threads
608,149
Messages
18,235,301
Members
234,302
Latest member
TKMorgan
Back
Top