CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Bringing this forward again as we try to make sense of the nonsensical:

“Obviously it is very difficult for the rest of us to even comprehend how someone can get himself to a state of mind where the children become expendable," Dr Gregory said.
"But sometimes the children in these cases have almost become pawns in a game - the children have become a way of getting back at his wife, a way of punishing her - or they have become belongings of his that he feels he can't leave behind.
"You've often got men who are holding down jobs, they're men who have got a lot invested in their world and particularly, often, in the family on which they then turn the violence."
The trigger to kill is often the failure of the relationship with the mother, or a dispute over the children if the marriage has already ended.
"He will then want to retrieve his control," Dr Gregory said.
"It is a desperate way to do it, and it is perverse, because in retrieving the control he is also losing his own life, but this man has got himself into such a state of mind that says 'if I can't have them, then no one can'.“

What creates a 'family annihilator'?
———-

“The profile of a family annihilator is a middle-aged man, a good provider who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father,' Levin said. 'He quite often tends to be quite isolated. He is often profoundly dedicated to his family, but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy, but then suffers some catastrophic loss. It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship. He doesn't hate his children, but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life. He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness. He wants to execute revenge and the motive is almost always to "get even".'“

Focus: Fathers who kill their children
 
Total speculation here (and gruesome). I've been thinking about how CW seems passive - not someone prone to strike out, at least not physically. I'm assuming that he told the truth when he said they all were strangled.

He didn't beat them, which would take being very active...yet strangling them is very intimate and not "passive" in the sense you need to hold the squeeze while in their face. Hard to be detached from that act of violence.

Unless you covered their heads with a pillow case.

jmopinion at the moment, thinking aloud
 
  1. 10:00 Shanann's doctor appt (she didn't show)
  2. 12:10 CW says he saw NUA on the doorbell camera
  3. NUA called CW at work
  4. 1:40 Officer Coonrod was dispatched to the home
  5. Coonrod called CW for garage door code
  6. CW arrived and they searched the home
  7. 2:35 PM Det. Baumhover arrived
#2 is from one of CW's interviews, I believe. The rest are from the affidavit.
Did NUA call CW first? If so, I'm mistaken because I thought CW contacted NUA when he was alerted that she was at the house door.

Thanks for the timeline - helpful.

jmo
 
After he got home and LE was there, they did not come into the house? The unmade bed was found on Weds?

If so, he could have remade the bed with different sheets. And having the pillowcase in the garbage is bizarre.

Maybe his story to LE was going to include events that SW did to account for the messed bed and a pillowcase in the garbage.

Maybe when he met with his father they came up with the present story.

If he is a sociopath, he probably has lied a lot in life and has gotten away with it.

When someone lies, do people confront the liar? I don’t see that happening. And because no one confronts him, he thinks he has gotten away with it.

However, we have not heard about anyone saying he is a liar.

If there was a confrontation scene , would the neighbors not have heard some fighting? Of course, with windows closed and the AC on, maybe not
 
More speculating...
Maybe...
He didn't have time to adequately clean and stage between the murders and getting to work. He already had to dispose of the bodies (hard to even type that) and get to work to act like nothing was amiss.

He thought he'd have time after work, but NU/NA ruined that.

Sometime after the cursory look through the house by LE on Monday, CW worried about the bedding. But now all eyes were on him, and he didn't want to be noticed doing anything odd. (He failed miserably - those interviews were unsettling to watch.) Maybe he thought he could slip the bedding out in the kitchen trash. Some on here pointed out that his trash day may have been Tuesday. If that's the case, idk why the bedding wasn't already gone.
 
More speculating...
Maybe...
He didn't have time to adequately clean and stage between the murders and getting to work. He already had to dispose of the bodies (hard to even type that) and get to work to act like nothing was amiss.

He thought he'd have time after work, but NU/NA ruined that.

Sometime after the cursory look through the house by LE on Monday, CW worried about the bedding. But now all eyes were on him, and he didn't want to be noticed doing anything odd. (He failed miserably - those interviews were unsettling to watch.) Maybe he thought he could slip the bedding out in the kitchen trash. Some on here pointed out that his trash day may have been Tuesday. If that's the case, idk why the bedding wasn't already gone.
Because Shanann wasn't there to remind him it was trash day. Or she normally put it out.
 
IMO this was premeditated and he disposed of the two young girls prior to SW arrival and he killed her shortly after she came home. I think she dropped her things downstairs as she walked in, ran upstairs to peek in at the girls, freaked they weren't there and he strangled her on that couch and the phone fell out of her pocket into the couch cushions. SW seemed to have her phone close at hand taking photos and posting, so it makes sense it may have been in her pocket and fell out. Maybe it even ran out of juice if he was trying to locate it by calling it, so he couldn't find it.

I really find it very interesting to read everyone's different thoughts and theories! I am still trying to come up with one and I’m just not sure yet. As of now I’m leaning more towards a “snapped but thought about it for a while” type scenario.

I didn’t sleep a wink last night. I thought about this family all night.
 
In the case of Jeffrey MacDonald, LE was able to determine what really happened because each member of the family had different blood types.

In this case, I'm wondering if it is a lack of blood evidence that tells the story, or part of the story? I mentioned in my previous post, LE was there on Monday and went through the house. They returned Tuesday morning when they found SW and the girls had not returned.

If SW had been home (and alive) when he was attacking the little girls, there would have been an incredible fight as SW tried to save her girls.

There may be something more, too, and we don't know about it yet. Perhaps something to do with SW's cell phone?

Unfortunately, this is not Florida with Sunshine laws. I would really like to see what was in the search warrant, and what was in the search warrant returns.

Everything we've seen so far were the initial non warranted searches.

I'm not familiar with Colorado law, can the media file anything to get those?
 
Did NUA call CW first? If so, I'm mistaken because I thought CW contacted NUA when he was alerted that she was at the house door.

Thanks for the timeline - helpful.

jmo

There’s a quote somewhere about how she wanted to call police but he wasn’t responsive, something along those lines, the answer may be there exactly.
 
Bringing this forward again as we try to make sense of the nonsensical:

“Obviously it is very difficult for the rest of us to even comprehend how someone can get himself to a state of mind where the children become expendable," Dr Gregory said.
"But sometimes the children in these cases have almost become pawns in a game - the children have become a way of getting back at his wife, a way of punishing her - or they have become belongings of his that he feels he can't leave behind.
"You've often got men who are holding down jobs, they're men who have got a lot invested in their world and particularly, often, in the family on which they then turn the violence."
The trigger to kill is often the failure of the relationship with the mother, or a dispute over the children if the marriage has already ended.
"He will then want to retrieve his control," Dr Gregory said.
"It is a desperate way to do it, and it is perverse, because in retrieving the control he is also losing his own life, but this man has got himself into such a state of mind that says 'if I can't have them, then no one can'.“

What creates a 'family annihilator'?
———-

“The profile of a family annihilator is a middle-aged man, a good provider who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father,' Levin said. 'He quite often tends to be quite isolated. He is often profoundly dedicated to his family, but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy, but then suffers some catastrophic loss. It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship. He doesn't hate his children, but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life. He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness. He wants to execute revenge and the motive is almost always to "get even".'“

Focus: Fathers who kill their children
Regarding fathers who kill their families, I think financial problems are usually the bottomline reason for men who lash out like this, at the middle-aged and older stage.

I think it was a factor with CW too, though he's a bit on the younger side of "middle-aged." I think there is likely more to it with him, but finances played a big role, imo. I think they were facing another financial crisis, so soon after their bankruptcy, and it wasn't one they would recover from easily.

(But, of course, they could recover! Two able-bodied adults who downsized and worked hard could get out from under. Plenty of people do, and they could have too. My mom always said, "Money problems can be solved!")

I think she possibly confronted him about affairs, and that was just one more thing on top of the finances.

Jmopinion
 
Thanks for your response, these are good thoughts.

Which brings me to something I’m been wanting to mention since the beginning but keep forgetting: they said they looked at the bed and saw no evidence of foul play, right? (Will look for exact quote). This comment has actually bothered me. I realize they are talking about obvious signs of blood, struggle, etc but.. Actually before I elaborate further let me pull the exact comment then reply.

Again the initial search was a cursory search (Savanna Greywind’s case comes to mind) so I’m assuming luminol, etc hadn’t been utilized yet, laundry collected, etc. As I understand it, COD has still not been released, neither has any evidentiary analysis of the home, items collected, etc.

ETA:

“Once police and Chris arrived, he let officers into their home, where officers found Shanann’s purse on the kitchen island and a suitcase at the bottom of the stairs. Upstairs, the couple’s bed had been stripped of its sheets and blankets, but police wrote there were no signs of foul play.“

Chris Watts murder case: Everything we know so far about the deaths of his wife, daughters

I think .......self delete as misunderstood post.
 
Last edited:
Sorry if this has been asked I cant read all posts. Did CW parents attend the funeral?
 
IIRC, he was alerted that the friend was at the door and he contacted her to say, "What's up?"

Which is weird. If everything were okay, why would he call his wife's friend who stopped by? You'd assume your wife would do the communicating with her friend. The friend knew something was up, and CW's actions confirmed it.

So, perhaps he hopped in his truck and was already on the way home before he even called the friend. IDK, but I do think he was on his way home well before LE talked to him about the garage code.

jmopinion

I'm going to assume he could see through the doorbell camera that her car did not leave. And that she was still there. Good point
 
Wait what? Did this go over my head the first time?

“The documents state: "The woman died as a result of the unlawful termination of the pregnancy."

Chris Watts murder case: Everything we know so far about the deaths of his wife, daughters

it's been explained a few times by Gitana. She said that it was the only way that in the state of Colorado they could charge him for killing of Nico as Colorado is one of the few states that doesn't have a specific charge for fetuses.
 
After he got home and LE was there, they did not come into the house? The unmade bed was found on Weds?

If so, he could have remade the bed with different sheets. And having the pillowcase in the garbage is bizarre.

Maybe his story to LE was going to include events that SW did to account for the messed bed and a pillowcase in the garbage.

Maybe when he met with his father they came up with the present story.

If he is a sociopath, he probably has lied a lot in life and has gotten away with it.

When someone lies, do people confront the liar? I don’t see that happening. And because no one confronts him, he thinks he has gotten away with it.

However, we have not heard about anyone saying he is a liar.

If there was a confrontation scene , would the neighbors not have heard some fighting? Of course, with windows closed and the AC on, maybe not

Yes, they went through the house on Monday. They observed the bedding on the floor of the master bedroom. On Wednesday, they found pillowcases and a top sheet in the kitchen trash.

I think I see where you're headed! How did I miss that before!

Chris must have known that the purse was there on the counter when he left that morning. I totally missed that.

I wonder if Nicole saw the purse the day that she was there.! I now want to reread all the legal documents the arrest warrant and the other one that we had. Does somebody have that handy? I need to save these things.

Her purse was found on the kitchen island.

The documents are here: Colorado Judicial Branch

The affidavit is the third document from the bottom.
 
November 19th is scheduled to be C.W.'s next court date.

I plan to follow the court proceedings closely. I have great faith in Judge Kopcow and am thankful that he will be presiding in this case. His demeanor and close attention to details is outstanding and evident from the court video.

My heart continues to go out to the loved ones of Shanann and Celeste and Bella.
I wish I could take some of their pain away.

May they continue to hold one another close during this inexplicable time.
 
  1. 10:00 Shanann's doctor appt (she didn't show)
  2. 12:10 CW says he saw NUA on the doorbell camera
  3. NUA called CW at work
  4. 1:40 Officer Coonrod was dispatched to the home
  5. Coonrod called CW for garage door code
  6. CW arrived and they searched the home
  7. 2:35 PM Det. Baumhover arrived
#2 is from one of CW's interviews, I believe. The rest are from the affidavit.
Ok so...(***extreme side-eye look***) it took this guy TWO HOURS to get to his house when his pregnant wife is missing???

Oh and btw he had zero clue apparently that his pregnant wife had a 10 am Dr. appt.

Does not sound like a very involved wonderful husband.
Just my own observations.
If he were my son in law or brother in law I would be like, "whaddaya mean you didn't know she had a Dr. appt? Where were you? Why did it take you two hours to get over there???"
And if I had seen those sheets in the trash can I would have taken pics yanked one of those police officers in the garage and told him to arrest that .
And btw...I would have known that code and while he was in the house with the police I would have been pressing that keypad on that garage door and if it didn't work I would be inspecting that thing as to why...cuz it's not rocket science.

Ok edit: I didn't know the sheets were not in the trash right off the bat. but in a nice house and someone who selfies everything..I can't see her throw sheets on the floor and leave. They would be in the washer..not balled up on the floor and the bed not made.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
147
Guests online
1,741
Total visitors
1,888

Forum statistics

Threads
605,524
Messages
18,188,320
Members
233,419
Latest member
Missygirl26
Back
Top