Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #23

[NuttMegg]

I feel the same! Jumping off your post here to add the following which is JMO:

Some here have expressed it may have not been a good idea for SW's FB page be left as a memorial. I tend to agree. It just leaves too much to be debated about the victims. I would think there should have been a way for SW's family to save the pics & videos without leaving it open to the public. That being said, I'm sure SW's family were very proud of her accomplishments & dedication to Le-vel, not to mention their beautiful grandbabies. Maybe they felt she would have wanted it this way.

If they have access to her page, ie can get in, they can choose the option to download the whole thing with all content into a file sent to their email. Well the email has a link to download the file wherever you want. I did it. IIRC FB enabled this recently in answer to some pointed complaints from possible future regulators. Then, they could make it private or delete it. I'd sure make it private if I were them, given what people are insinuating about their daughter/relative, based on her posts.

 

[cottonweaver]

As promised, I read “Two Face: The Man Underneath Christopher Watts” by Nick van der Leek. It’s free on Kindle Unlimited and $3.99 if you don’t have it.

Fortunately I didn’t have to pay for it, as I can think of better ways to spend $3.99 (like buying 4 packs of gum and chewing them all at once).

The book presents the timeline and evidence, as we know it. From there, the author speculates as to C.W.’s motive, how the crime occurred, and analyzes some of the major players.

He recounts a premeditated scenario, where C.W. is lying in wait for Shanann as she returns home that fateful night.

He speculates that the kids were killed first, because cadaver dogs were heard barking during CW’s interview with the media. The logic is that cadaver dogs bark when they get a hit, they would only get a hit if there was the scent of decomposition, so the kids must have been killed before Shanann arrived home.

As for motive, the author says that their entire life was a facade, both were living a lie (not happy), and financial problems were compounding their struggles.

Chris was overshadowed by Shanann and was losing his identity. The prospect of another child was too much to handle, and Chris felt that he was in too deep.

He speculates that Shanann and the kids returning to North Carolina, was a trial separation of sorts.

The decrease in Facebook videos leading up to the murders, is a sign of a marriage that is no longer a viable one.

*He makes an interesting point when he says that the kids may have been placed in different tanks, because the oil levels would have triggered a sensor if they deviated too much.

Some tid bits:

Author blasts Thrive for isolating Shanann from her real friends. People get sick of all the posts, and the only friends left were people within the “Thrive Cult.”

Her entire life was revolves around this MLM company, and her Facebook posts paint a picture that is in direct conflict with the truth. She is “faking it, until she makes it.”

He blasts fellow Thrivers for using her death to promote themselves, all of them changing their Facebook profile photos, to make themselves the center of attention.

*He cites a 2013 family annihilator study from the Harvard Journal of Criminal Justice. All were loving husbands and good fathers. The motives generally included family breakup, financial problems, and greed (killing his family would solve these problems).

The reason I don’t think this book is worthwhile, is because it does exactly what we do on here. We use the evidence and timeline to build a narrative in regards to what we think happened.

There’s just not a lot here, and his scenario of this being quite premeditated, is contingent on some barking dogs. It’s definitely plausible, but just too flimsy for me.

Read his blog, not his book, unless you have Kindle Unlimited.

Thanks for taking the time MG. We've got a full review there. Cheers

 

[MsBetsy]

He looked very well groomed in the porch interview. He had a nice close shave. His clothes weren't disheveled and they were clean looking.

He showed off his t-shirt when asked about it in an astounding moment. He smiled. Laughed a couple times.

Some people view that as having primped for the interviews and preening during it.

I feel like I can't be the only one who has seen things like disassociation or other mental health episodes. I mean yes, sadly in family law once you get to the litigation stage (because a lot of very normal people just settle and don't engage in the adversarial process), you see a lot of issues like mental health problems and drug/alcohol abuse.

But most of us here have been following violent cases like this for a while (or maybe it's just a few of us obsessive crazies? Lol.).

And we've seen and witnessed what some of that stuff looks like.

A great example of disassociation is the woman who was found swinging her dead baby for hours in a swing at a park in freezing weather until someone called 911.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sm...lives-with-what-she-lost-20160423-goddvf.html

People who disassociate aren't capable of concealing. If they can't remember they don't stand there clear eyed and calm, smiling while actively lying and concealing there whereabouts of their family.

He was able to rationally describe last seeing his wife and the kids and then sending her messages during the day, watching the ring video showing Nickole show up and then calling her, suddenly rushing home when the cops were called, exactly what was in the house when he got there and how it was locked up, he speculated about how they might have left voluntarily or been taken and he stated firmly that he had no idea where they were.

He had a hard swallow or two during an otherwise calm interview and held his arms in a defensive posture. This doesnt seem like what a person would look like who can't remember what happened and was divorced from reality.

Hours later he suddenly snaps out of it and suddenly recalls? After hours of interoggation and making the statement, "I will tell you what really happened if I can talk to my dad first." ?

That's pretty in control if you ask me. Not one darn sign that he lost his mind and disassociated from what happened.

People with disassociation lose memory. Of people. Places. Identity. I don't think they don't remember everything but one thing.

This guy was cagey in his porch interviews. Well rested. No bizarre speech patterns. Delusional thought patterns.

This is powerful evidence of his consciousness of guilt IMO and lack of empathy.

Thus far I think this is the evidence that going to absolutely sink him.

Yes, I think you are right about all that you mentioned. There were no signs of dissociation what so ever. In fact it is very rare. I call the few swallows that you refer to as "swallowing the guilt."

 

[NuttMegg]

Yikes! Not only that, but if you don't remove properties from the picture, the metadata can be accessed which contains a lot of personal information, including location. That's why I'm not a fan of people posting pictures of their children on SM. With email acct, Facetime and WhatsApp applications is easy to keep in contact with.

With just a little effort, a would-be stalker can see where you/and spouse work, where your kids go to school, and as you say, location, if not adjusted, FB will say exactly where you are when you post, ie not at home, or at a certain restaurant, and stalkers don't have to work too hard to figure out your home address. Why make it easier for them, and at the same time give them current photos of your kids?

 

[Tricia]

Please join me in welcoming our newest verified insider for the Watts case Colorado303 and our latest verified attorney Mrspratcher.

Mrspratcher, my apologies to you. I meant to introduce you as soon as you were verified.

Both Colorado303 and Mrspratcher can post and do not have to provide links to back up what they are saying. It is up to you whether you believe a verified insider or verified professional.

If you do not believe what they are saying then scroll by. Please no passive-aggressive postings or backhanded compliments. Nothing rude no matter how little the rudeness is it is not allowed.

You may ask questions of both verified insiders and verified professionals. They do not have to answer them.

One of the reasons why people like coming to Websleuths is we do have great information provided to us by our verified posters.

Please do not chase our VI's off by hounding them or being unpleasant in any manner.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[flourish]

I hear you. I fear I will have forgotten all the details by the time the trial comes around. I’m also afraid that SW is going to cop a plea and never reveal what really happened.

Unfortunately, even if it goes to trial, we'll still likely not know the entire "truth." Like I'm pretty sure what all happened with Caylee Anthony, but would have liked to have seen Casey actually fess up to it all and tell all. Dang curiosity.

 

[Starkville]

You're right, we don't know a lot. But JMO, I'm not so sure CW was "in love" with the AP. There are married men who have affairs and sometimes even multiple affairs because it gives them an ego boost, AND because they secretly feel a lot of anger and resentment for toward their wives, for whatever reason. The affair allows them to "crap" on their wives, behind their backs.

Do they tell their wives about their affairs? Nope - and they are mortified when their wives discover the infidelity and she tells them she she is done.

JMO, this is exactly what I think happened in this case. I do think the separation discussion likely occurred before the night of the murders and he had some time to stew over it.

All JMO.

I’m inclined to agree with this. I don’t think he wanted to get away so he could be with one person. I think he wanted to get away so he could play the field.

But I could be convinced either way.

 

[PommyMommy]

As promised, I read “Two Face: The Man Underneath Christopher Watts” by Nick van der Leek. It’s free on Kindle Unlimited and $3.99 if you don’t have it.

Fortunately I didn’t have to pay for it, as I can think of better ways to spend $3.99 (like buying 4 packs of gum and chewing them all at once).

The book presents the timeline and evidence, as we know it. From there, the author speculates as to C.W.’s motive, how the crime occurred, and analyzes some of the major players.

He recounts a premeditated scenario, where C.W. is lying in wait for Shanann as she returns home that fateful night.

He speculates that the kids were killed first, because cadaver dogs were heard barking during CW’s interview with the media. The logic is that cadaver dogs bark when they get a hit, they would only get a hit if there was the scent of decomposition, so the kids must have been killed before Shanann arrived home.

As for motive, the author says that their entire life was a facade, both were living a lie (not happy), and financial problems were compounding their struggles.

Chris was overshadowed by Shanann and was losing his identity. The prospect of another child was too much to handle, and Chris felt that he was in too deep.

He speculates that Shanann and the kids returning to North Carolina, was a trial separation of sorts.

The decrease in Facebook videos leading up to the murders, is a sign of a marriage that is no longer a viable one.

*He makes an interesting point when he says that the kids may have been placed in different tanks, because the oil levels would have triggered a sensor if they deviated too much.

Some tid bits:

Author blasts Thrive for isolating Shanann from her real friends. People get sick of all the posts, and the only friends left were people within the “Thrive Cult.”

Her entire life was revolves around this MLM company, and her Facebook posts paint a picture that is in direct conflict with the truth. She is “faking it, until she makes it.”

He blasts fellow Thrivers for using her death to promote themselves, all of them changing their Facebook profile photos, to make themselves the center of attention.

*He cites a 2013 family annihilator study from the Harvard Journal of Criminal Justice. All were loving husbands and good fathers. The motives generally included family breakup, financial problems, and greed (killing his family would solve these problems).

The reason I don’t think this book is worthwhile, is because it does exactly what we do on here. We use the evidence and timeline to build a narrative in regards to what we think happened.

There’s just not a lot here, and his scenario of this being quite premeditated, is contingent on some barking dogs. It’s definitely plausible, but just too flimsy for me.

Read his blog, not his book, unless you have Kindle Unlimited.

Way to take one for the team, thank you!

 

[MassGuy]

Unfortunately, even if it goes to trial, we'll still likely not know the entire "truth." Like I'm pretty sure what all happened with Caylee Anthony, but would have liked to have seen Casey actually fess up to it all and tell all. Dang curiosity.

Exactly. C.W. is the only living person who can shed light on what exactly happened. He won’t tell us, and the evidence only provides part of the story.

 

[SN76]

I just have a hard time believing divorce and separation would be brought up at soon as she got home from a long trip. NA said SW was not feeling well during the ride home. I imagine SW would be very tired from the delayed flight and want to go to sleep not get into an emotional conversation at 2am. Something triggered this that spiraled into murder. Why wouldn’t he or she have waited until he got home from work to have such a serious conversation? Why at 2am? What triggered this? I think there is much more to this story.

Sometimes just one word, one sentence, to be misconstrued or taken the wrong in an already troubled marriage can be all it takes for things to spiral out of control.

Any time of the day, it doesn't matter.

MOO

 

[Mosaic]

With just a little effort, a would-be stalker can see where you/and spouse work, where your kids go to school, and as you say, location, if not adjusted, FB will say exactly where you are when you post, ie not at home, or at a certain restaurant, and stalkers don't have to work too hard to figure out your home address. Why make it easier for them, and at the same time give them current photos of your kids?

ugh... SM is dangerous..

 

[MsBetsy]

Call me old fashioned but I don’t believe in displaying my whole day to day activities of my personal life including my marriage on Social media. I believe keeping some things private and should be kept in the household instead of in front of the world to make opinions.

I agree. I wonder what it could be that makes some people do that? I honestly don't know why. A whole other topic to analyze.

 

[roteone]

I think in the beginning it is obvious he is acting like he is surprised by the dramatic way he stops and kind of freezes up. He may have even known before that, and the test was just confirmation. But I didn't see disappointment.

JMO: I think it was staged for SM, I feel like they both knew already. CW seemed to be acting happy. SW almost seemed to be stand-offish (matter of fact) how she answers him. That to me just ties in with her SM presence. Everything had to be filmed.

 

[Layla123]

it is just not that unusual for a male to dispose of his wife and children when he has lost his use for them.


thanks for this synopsis.
family annihilators are not loving fathers and husbands that lose it one day. they are master manipulators lacking empathy, pathologically self-serving, and most likely without capacity for emotion and connection (socio/psychopaths). they can play the game and mimic being human, but when the purpose for the wife and kids has worn out, bye bye to the wife and kids. It's very hard to understand or accept this reality, but it is very real, and quite common. power, control, entitlement, and grandiosity is an often fatal combo for those close to them.

more and more, the covered doll makes me think there was long-standing nefarious behavior by CW towards the kids. unless CW is the one who posed the doll as a warning.

I think if I encountered 2 of my babies strangled on a bed my first reaction would be a gut punch of incapacitating shock, horror, and unbearable loss. I can’t see myself immediately going into an uncontrollable rage. I’d want him hauled off to jail, immediately, I wouldn’t even consider killing him myself. I’d want all evidence preserved. But that’s me. Someone here posted that they’d experienced the murder of their child, and their first reaction was wanting to kill him. I’m curious, has there ever been a situation before where the parent of a child who was murdered by the other parent is so filled with rage, upon learning of the death of their child, they immediately turn on that murdering spouse and kill them? Does anyone know?

 

[pocketaccent]

He did not change his story. He told LE where to find all 3 bodies. He did not say he killed them all.

Nor did he say all 3 were strangled. Only 2 were strangled. The other 1 is assumed only. Patiently waiting for the coroner's report...

 

[Allabouttrial]

it could be the kids playing, but kids' play is not innocuous. Kids' play is their therapy, their way of communicating, and of working out problems. abused kids will also "play abuse" dolls, animals, etc. it is still play although a cry for help as well. kids generally would not play in this way without some prior exposure to such a posture. Usually kids put dolls under a blanket with the head exposed, tucked in for bed. covering the head is not normal play behavior and is due to previous exposure to such a position.

JMO: I think it was staged for SM, I feel like they both knew already. CW seemed to be acting happy. SW almost seemed to be stand-offish (matter of fact) how she answers him. That to me just ties in with her SM presence. Everything had to be filmed.

I agree. I thought that from the first time I saw it.

 

[WildWest]

Please join me in welcoming our newest verified insider for the Watts case Colorado303 and our latest verified attorney Mrspratcher.

Mrspratcher, my apologies to you. I meant to introduce you as soon as you were verified.

Both Colorado303 and Mrspratcher can post and do not have to provide links to back up what they are saying. It is up to you whether you believe a verified insider or verified professional.

If you do not believe what they are saying then scroll by. Please no passive-aggressive postings or backhanded compliments. Nothing rude no matter how little the rudeness is it is not allowed.

You may ask questions of both verified insiders and verified professionals. They do not have to answer them.

One of the reasons why people like coming to Websleuths is we do have great information provided to us by our verified posters.

Please do not chase our VI's off by hounding them or being unpleasant in any manner.

Thank you,
Tricia

Welcome new VIs !! @Mrspratcher & @Colorado303

 

[pocketaccent]

Something keeps gnawing at me. If indeed CW was asking for a separation wouldn't it be more normal for him to be the one to leave the family residence and leave SW and the children in the family home?

I don't know who asked for a separation first and who resisted.

IMO,
If CW is the one who asked first, then it's less likely he premeditated the murders.

If SW is the one who wanted the separation, he likely planned the murders.

 

[kkdj]

Nor did he say all 3 were strangled. Only 2 were strangled. The other 1 is assumed only. Patiently waiting for the coroner's report...

Oh really? I thought he saw one blue (from strangulation), the other being strangled so he strangled her (SW).

 

[MassGuy]

I think if I encountered 2 of my babies strangled on a bed my first reaction would be a gut punch of incapacitating shock, horror, and unbearable loss. I can’t see myself immediately going into an uncontrollable rage. I’d want him hauled off to jail, immediately, I wouldn’t even consider killing him myself. I’d want all evidence preserved. But that’s me. Someone here posted that they’d experienced the murder of their child, and their first reaction was wanting to kill him. I’m curious, has there ever been a situation before where the parent of a child who was murdered by the other parent is so filled with rage, upon learning of the death of their child, they immediately turn on that murdering spouse and kill them? Does anyone know?

That’s exactly why his scenario is so bizarre. I can’t find a documented case with similarities, let alone containing a coverup like this.

I think that’s partially why this case is continuing to get the level of attention that it is. It’s unprecedented.