Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #25

[Waterdog]

No. Marilyn wanted to stay married because of the children and her social standing in the community. She treated his leaving as the ultimate betrayal and wanted revenge.

Her husband left her for another woman and moved out. iirc, he married the woman and I believe they have a child together and are still together. To this day, Marilyn insists she killed the children because she suffered from mental illness rather than she was seeking revenge. Sad case. JMO

It doesn't make sense to me though. If she wanted to stay in the marriage because of the children and social standing then she valued those 2 things more than she valued her husband. It seems getting rid of the children goes against her values. Plus, what worse social standing is there than being jailed for murder of your children? This is where I'm at with SW, she valued her children and her social standing (as I see it, more so than CW as an individual) and killing the children to get back at him, especially when he hasn't even left yet doesn't seem plausible, unless she planned to also kill herself.

 

[WildWest]

I meant because she was in remission it may have been easier for her to get pregnant.

I don't know SW health but I do know lupus infertility issues can be a major risk to the mother carrying a child inside, not conception. & @MyBelle

 

[Ronso]

And touching on the whole illness thing- my sister has Grave's Disease, and asthma, and PCOS (dang, my mom must've had Munchausen By Proxy!!! ). Oh, and the super cool thing about her Grave's Disease is that it makes her fatter, instead of thinner. So, nobody believes she actually has it. She also is good at pretending she isn't sick as crap or doesn't feel like hell when she's too broke to afford her thyroid medication.

 

[MyBelle]

No, I haven't but I was not aware that anywhere in the world were executives privvy to patients health information.
Isn't that what HIPPA is about? Can any office staff, view patient records.
This is not what we are talking about here anyway. This is about a private GP. Hospitals probably do own the patient records but doctors own their own records from their private practices.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting. I assume the children were covered under their dad's insurance plan and the provider was "in network."

Sure their pediatrician's medical office staff can view medical records and so can executives who work there with a need to know. So can an insurance company because they are paying for the care. Doctors know this if they accept the patient's medical insurance. Many medical procedures have to be cleared thru the insurance providers before they are performed and the necessity of the procedure or test is questioned. That's the way it works here. JMO

 

[Mariel Van Arkle]

Why are we saying her kids were sick with non-genetic illnesses? Has anyone actually READ anything about these diagnoses and the links between them? Asthma is absolutely genetic. It runs in families. My twin sister has asthma, and my brother had it too. My other brother and I didn't have it. (My Aunt has it, too- my dad's sister)

EOE, which one of the girls' had, is also linked with food allergies. Did that same girl have the tree nut allergy? Allergies can also be genetic. They've found genetic markers associated with EOE, too. A simple Google search linked me to a study/article about it.

And sometimes, you just get a bad roll of the genetic dice. Ear tubes? Are we really all that concerned about ear tubes? My brothers both had their ears tubed and I needed mine done (and now I have Meniere's Disease and random bouts of vertigo from fluid building up in my inner ear- it's a blast) but my parents never did it. That means 3 of 4 of my parents' children needed ear tubes (2 of which actually got them). And adenoidectomies are done often times in kids who have recurrent sinus/ear infections... so, no surprise that a child who had ear tubes also had an adenoidectomy.

Didn't the girls have prescriptions/inhalers and such? They were formerly diagnosed if she had equipment/prescription medication to treat their issues.

I guess it seems like a lot to be "diagnosed with" when you're not familiar with the diagnoses and co-diagnoses that go along with them.

Absolutely! Everything Ive read about her diagnoses and the kids conditions go hand-in-hand with each other. It mirrors my own family's experiences which have included now four known generations of similarly linked auto-immune disorders . Nothing raises any red flags to me in terms of their health issues, and my point about seeing many doctors being a red flag in the US has nothing to do with availability of private practice but rather the stigma attached to "doctor shopping" which I personally observed in my many years in the USA. Autoimmune is awful to deal with and when it runs in various forms within a family, it leads to many many doc visits, trials of meds, re-evaluations, trials of supplements, oils, vitamins, what have you. There are desperate parents within my own family who are dealing with this very same merry-go-round, minus the stigma and (allegedly) murderous husband. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

And touching on the whole illness thing- my sister has Grave's Disease, and asthma, and PCOS (dang, my mom must've had Munchausen By Proxy!!! ). Oh, and the super cool thing about her Grave's Disease is that it makes her fatter, instead of thinner. So, nobody believes she actually has it. She also is good at pretending she isn't sick as crap or doesn't feel like hell when she's too broke to afford her thyroid medication.

I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. As a syndrome, there are many other co-morbidities that go along with it. Some that I have include: osteoarthritis, spinal stenosis, sciatica, gastoparesis, mast cell activation disorder, endometriosis, bursitis, Chiari, Lupus, and a thoracic anuerysm. Some EDSers have more.

If any of her doctors had been suspicious, they most likely would have made a report. The fact that the girls had inhalers and epi pens shows that they had legit diagnoses.

 

[MyBelle]

Yeah some said that's all they would need. It was for the trip to NC.

How odd because the airline's website would tell them what they needed but many don't check first. My DD didn't check first and didn't take her 1-yo daughter's birth certificate and the airline charged her for the seat.

 

[MyBelle]

It doesn't make sense to me though. If she wanted to stay in the marriage because of the children and social standing then she valued those 2 things more than she valued her husband. It seems getting rid of the children goes against her values. Plus, what worse social standing is there than being jailed for murder of your children? This is where I'm at with SW, she valued her children and her social standing (as I see it, more so than CW as an individual) and killing the children to get back at him, especially when he hasn't even left yet doesn't seem plausible, unless she planned to also kill herself.

I'm not sure values had anything to do with the murder of Marilyn's children. She wanted revenge on her husband. That was her priority and it had nothing to do with her love for the children. Marilyn inflicted a superficial wound so that she could pretend suicide. But even in 1999 when mothers were presumed to be all loving and caring, it didn't work. JMO

 

[Jennifer17]

I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. As a syndrome, there are many other co-morbidities that go along with it. Some that I have include: osteoarthritis, spinal stenosis, sciatica, gastoparesis, mast cell activation disorder, endometriosis, bursitis, Chiari, Lupus, and a thoracic anuerysm. Some EDSers have more.

If any of her doctors had been suspicious, they most likely would have made a report. The fact that the girls had inhalers and epi pens shows that they had legit diagnoses.

A friend said to me not long ago about another friend whose grandchild had been diagnosed with something rare, 'I don't believe all these new diseases, they weren't around when I was young'. But they were around, they were misdiagnosed and people suffered or people died.

 

[Waterdog]

I don't know SW health but I do know lupus infertility issues can be a major risk to the mother carrying a child inside than conceiving. & @MyBelle

Yes, and it appears she was being closely monitored by her doctors because of it. But it also appears she was able to conceive and sustain pregnancy without intervention. It just means she was in good health at those times.

But, for Thrive, who's to say she was feeling great all because of Thrive like she said in her videos. I think it was convenient to the Thrive narrative but it doesn't mean she didn't really have Lupus and fibromyalgia and it also doesn't mean she was in remission of both illnesses because of Thrive.

 

[Waterdog]

I'm not sure values had anything to do with the murder of Marilyn's children. She wanted revenge on her husband. That was her priority and it had nothing to do with her love for the children. Marilyn inflicted a superficial wound so that she could pretend suicide. But even in 1999 when mothers were presumed to be all loving and caring, it didn't work. JMO

Well, you didn't say all that, lol. It's clear she didn't value anyone but herself.

 

[MyBelle]

I am pretty sure burying your wife and dumping your children in vats of crude oil on your employer's property would be grounds for immediate termination of employment.

I have never disagreed with the employer's termination of CW.

 

[Waterdog]

I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. As a syndrome, there are many other co-morbidities that go along with it. Some that I have include: osteoarthritis, spinal stenosis, sciatica, gastoparesis, mast cell activation disorder, endometriosis, bursitis, Chiari, Lupus, and a thoracic anuerysm. Some EDSers have more.

If any of her doctors had been suspicious, they most likely would have made a report. The fact that the girls had inhalers and epi pens shows that they had legit diagnoses.

And their illnesses were not all that uncommon.

(Off topic: I suspect I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. I have 5 of the co-morbidities you listed. :-O Which came first for you, the diagnosis or the co-morbidities?)

 

[Ronso]

As for a third ultrasound by week 15, when you're high risk (and especially high risk of miscarriage)... you'll get that many ultrasounds. In my first trimester (I've talked about this earlier in the threads) this pregnancy, I had ultrasounds every 2-3 weeks because I had an active subchorionic hemorrhage. So, each ultrasound measured it. It resolved by week 15.

So far I've had ultrasounds at:

Weeks 7, 10, 12, 15, 19, 23,24, 27, 32, and will have another at 36 (and then scans weekly from there onto delivery).

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

It's that time. Time to go to bed. No arguing. It is up to bed for you sister-bell (Sorry, I'm channeling my late mum)

See you back here in the morning when the Watts thread will be open by 7:30 AM Mountain time.

G'night
Tricia

 

[Tricia]

OK I did it again. I forgot to lock the thread. It is waaaaay past my bed time I'll tell ya. LOL

 

[Harmony 2]

Good morning! The Watts thread is open for posting.

link for graphic

 

[Medstudies]

I agree. Which is why it will be interesting to learn if the conditions SW claimed the children had were actually diagnosed. JMO

Another interesting thing would be: what part (if any) C.W. had when it came to the medical conditions and treatment plans for which the children were treated? Did he meet with the medical professionals caring for his daughters? Did he actively participate in their daily care management?

(Sorry if this has already been discussed. )

 

[urban gardener]

Good morning, all! Thank you for the warm welcome yesterday. It's a cloudy, muggy day here in NYC.

 

[Amandaaa]

Of course they do, but they belong to the doctor. A doctor can, if he wishes give a summary, but not the records.
A doctor would never write anything derogatory about a patient in his files. The notes for one visit are usually only one line, describing the symptom and treatment.

In my personal experience (as someone who has reviewed hundreds of thousands of pages of medical records) -

I have seen doctors order questionable or unnecessary tests, medications, and yes - even procedures. I have seen documentation indicate that patients have pressured doctors for a particular diagnosis/test/procedure which the doctors initially resist and then end up ordering (IMO, they are likely concerned about potential malpractice if they don’t listen to the patient). Most records are actually quite extensive and include a fairly lengthy and detailed narrative regarding the visit and the interaction with the patient.

I have also seen (on numerous occasions) doctors make unfavorable mentions of the patient in the records - that they are argumentative, combative, irrational, demanding, etc. - so often that it doesn’t really surprise me any more. I’m not saying it’s right - just that it definitely happens.